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Transgender Discussion Thread V: The Fifth Dimension

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:41 pm

The Reformed American Republic wrote:

Let's be honest, this is to distract people from the GOP's economic failures. It throws red meat to a segment of the population who are extreme culture warriors, getting the GOP votes without actually making people's lives better. The GOP did the same crap a few years back with a transgender bathroom bill.

That's all conservative culture wars. The Republican party has seen lgbtqia issues as wedge issues and a maypole to rally up social conservatives to get them to vote for them. Abortion also is like that.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:51 pm

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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:08 pm



Infuriating, but unsurprising.

Owlograd wrote:Hello my beautiful peeps! I may be suffering from an illness but I can still campaign for trans-gender rights! (despite not being one)


Allies are appreciated!
Last edited by Grenartia on Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:12 pm

Grenartia wrote:


Infuriating, but unsurprising.

Owlograd wrote:Hello my beautiful peeps! I may be suffering from an illness but I can still campaign for trans-gender rights! (despite not being one)


Allies are appreciated!

It's terrible being the newest theater of the conservative culture war. I don't need to be a US Soldier to fight in a war these days.

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Postby Impaled Nazarene » Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:24 pm

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Postby Nakena » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:27 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Amazing how you managed to say so much without actually answering the question. Did you receive a degree in Debating from the Mike Pence University of Dodging the Question?


I do not think that is a real university but I am sorry that you did not find my post as educative and inspiring of reflection as I had hoped. I will endeavour to do better in future.


I found it throughly interesting, enlightening as entertaining. It get an quality content post rating from me.

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Wink Wonk We Like Stonks
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:15 pm

Auzkhia wrote:
Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:i've always been kind of tall, but slowed down growing in middle school and am like 5'6-7 rn. it's an ok height, i might get taller, but it's fine either way. pretty set in the middle, thanks genetic lottery.

My younger cis sister is 5'7" and my fiancée, who is transfem, is 5'8" and they look about the same height.

i can't eyeball heights, or ages for that matter, for shit. i mean with height i can guess based of mine if they're close, but if not they're either 4 foot or 12' 4''. but my use of hyperbole to avoid incorrect guesses is neither here nor there. point is an inch isn't much of a difference unless people are back to back. unless it pushes you from kind-of tall to redwood status, which are subjective. just like everything else. this post lives in a society.

people always want to say they can clock any trans person, but in reality just end up harassing butches and anyone who's not exactly wearing a dress or a full tuxedo. probably better at picking out cis people tbh, seeing as how most trans people with the means make a significant effort to not look like their assigned gender. obligatory disclaimer that gnc trans people are very valid
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Wink Wonk We Like Stonks
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Postby Wink Wonk We Like Stonks » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:19 pm

bad reply? a random criminal/civilian will be sent to SweatshopvilleTM. To date, 63+ have been sent. stonks for apotheosis 2024
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:08 pm

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Auzkhia
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Postby Auzkhia » Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:16 pm


My clinic only gives HRT to 18+ people and like only medical transition done on youth is usually puberty blockers, though some post-pubescent aged minors i.e aged 14-17 could get HRT, but the youngest I ever saw with hrt is 16. But still. bills like these are just gonna make life worse for trans youth and increase a potentially risky black market.
Last edited by Auzkhia on Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Serrus
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Postby Serrus » Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:26 pm

Wink Wonk We Like Stonks wrote:
Auzkhia wrote:My younger cis sister is 5'7" and my fiancée, who is transfem, is 5'8" and they look about the same height.

i can't eyeball heights, or ages for that matter, for shit. i mean with height i can guess based of mine if they're close, but if not they're either 4 foot or 12' 4''. but my use of hyperbole to avoid incorrect guesses is neither here nor there. point is an inch isn't much of a difference unless people are back to back. unless it pushes you from kind-of tall to redwood status, which are subjective. just like everything else. this post lives in a society.

people always want to say they can clock any trans person, but in reality just end up harassing butches and anyone who's not exactly wearing a dress or a full tuxedo. probably better at picking out cis people tbh, seeing as how most trans people with the means make a significant effort to not look like their assigned gender. obligatory disclaimer that gnc trans people are very valid

I can't eyeball much of anything about people due to how trash my memory is. Totally borrowing "redwood status" though!
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:28 pm

Amazon halts sales of books that treat LGBT+ identities as mental illness

Amazon on Thursday told Republican senators that it removed a 2018 book because the e-commerce site will no longer sell literature framing LGBTQ identities as mental illnesses, The Wall Street Journal reported. This came as a response to a letter asking why people couldn't turn to Amazon, Kindle or Audible for print, e-book or audiobook versions of Ryan T. Anderson's When Harry Became Sally: Responding to the Transgender Moment.
The book explores the media depiction of gender identity, as well as public policy approaches to the issue.

"We carefully consider the content we make available in our stores, and we review our approach regularly," wrote Brian Huseman, Amazon's vice president of public policy. "We have chosen not to sell books that frame LGBTQ+ identity as a mental illness."

In their letter, Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida, Mike Lee of Utah, Mike Braun of Indiana and Josh Hawley of Missouri said Amazon's move told "conservative Americans that their views are not welcome on its platforms," the Journal reported.

Huseman said Amazon offers people "a wide variety of content that includes disparate opinions."

Anderson said Amazon is hampering the exchange of ideas. "No good comes from shutting down a debate about important matters on which reasonable people of good will disagree," the author wrote in a statement. "Amazon is using its massive power to distort the marketplace of ideas and is deceiving its own customers in the process."

Amazon declined to add further comment.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:52 pm

Auzkhia wrote:

My clinic only gives HRT to 18+ people and like only medical transition done on youth is usually puberty blockers, though some post-pubescent aged minors i.e aged 14-17 could get HRT, but the youngest I ever saw with hrt is 16. But still. bills like these are just gonna make life worse for trans youth and increase a potentially risky black market.


Republican senators are gonna legislate our lives like they legislate cis women's vaginas.

Kowani wrote:Amazon halts sales of books that treat LGBT+ identities as mental illness

Amazon on Thursday told Republican senators that it removed a 2018 book because the e-commerce site will no longer sell literature framing LGBTQ identities as mental illnesses, The Wall Street Journal reported. This came as a response to a letter asking why people couldn't turn to Amazon, Kindle or Audible for print, e-book or audiobook versions of Ryan T. Anderson's When Harry Became Sally: Responding to the Transgender Moment.
The book explores the media depiction of gender identity, as well as public policy approaches to the issue.

"We carefully consider the content we make available in our stores, and we review our approach regularly," wrote Brian Huseman, Amazon's vice president of public policy. "We have chosen not to sell books that frame LGBTQ+ identity as a mental illness."

In their letter, Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida, Mike Lee of Utah, Mike Braun of Indiana and Josh Hawley of Missouri said Amazon's move told "conservative Americans that their views are not welcome on its platforms," the Journal reported.

Huseman said Amazon offers people "a wide variety of content that includes disparate opinions."

Anderson said Amazon is hampering the exchange of ideas. "No good comes from shutting down a debate about important matters on which reasonable people of good will disagree," the author wrote in a statement. "Amazon is using its massive power to distort the marketplace of ideas and is deceiving its own customers in the process."

Amazon declined to add further comment.


God, I hate that we have to rely on Amazon to stand up for us in Congress.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:05 pm


Is this just Amazon USA or is it worldwide? As for the record I have an old book on my shelf that classes homosexuality and being trans as a mental illness, yet it is still available on Amazon UK...

Note however that the only reason I actually own a copy of it is for academic purposes, as an example of how the psychiatry community viewed LGBT people back then.
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Suriyanakhon
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:53 pm

Kowani wrote:Amazon halts sales of books that treat LGBT+ identities as mental illness

In their letter, Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida, Mike Lee of Utah, Mike Braun of Indiana and Josh Hawley of Missouri said Amazon's move told "conservative Americans that their views are not welcome on its platforms," the Journal reported.


It's almost like hate speech is bad, who ever thought of that. /s
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Postby North Washington Republic » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:00 pm

Kowani wrote:Amazon halts sales of books that treat LGBT+ identities as mental illness

Amazon on Thursday told Republican senators that it removed a 2018 book because the e-commerce site will no longer sell literature framing LGBTQ identities as mental illnesses, The Wall Street Journal reported. This came as a response to a letter asking why people couldn't turn to Amazon, Kindle or Audible for print, e-book or audiobook versions of Ryan T. Anderson's When Harry Became Sally: Responding to the Transgender Moment.
The book explores the media depiction of gender identity, as well as public policy approaches to the issue.

"We carefully consider the content we make available in our stores, and we review our approach regularly," wrote Brian Huseman, Amazon's vice president of public policy. "We have chosen not to sell books that frame LGBTQ+ identity as a mental illness."

In their letter, Sens. Marco Rubio of Florida, Mike Lee of Utah, Mike Braun of Indiana and Josh Hawley of Missouri said Amazon's move told "conservative Americans that their views are not welcome on its platforms," the Journal reported.

Huseman said Amazon offers people "a wide variety of content that includes disparate opinions."

Anderson said Amazon is hampering the exchange of ideas. "No good comes from shutting down a debate about important matters on which reasonable people of good will disagree," the author wrote in a statement. "Amazon is using its massive power to distort the marketplace of ideas and is deceiving its own customers in the process."

Amazon declined to add further comment.


Well, it seems that Rubio, Lee, Braun and Hawley are saying that the view that homosexuality is a mental illness is a mainstream conservative view.
And I wonder why so many LGBT people support Trump..
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Postby Kowani » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:22 pm

South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”
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Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:25 pm

Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Are there honestly even that much of a physical difference between members of different sexes at that age?
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:05 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Are there honestly even that much of a physical difference between members of different sexes at that age?

>Asking me a STEM question
That was your first mistake, Suri :p
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Postby Zul-ar » Sat Mar 13, 2021 5:05 pm

Suriyanakhon wrote:
Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Are there honestly even that much of a physical difference between members of different sexes at that age?

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Postby Riviere Renard » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:19 pm

Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Bipartisan? Are Democrats Tories in South Carolina?
Last edited by Riviere Renard on Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:21 pm

Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

“We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Can we just talk about the blatant fucking gaslighting in this sentence?
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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:23 pm

Riviere Renard wrote:
Kowani wrote:South Carolina becomes the latest state to target transgender people

The first bill is a bipartisan bill that bans anyone younger than 18 from getting any medical procedure including hormones or surgery related to changing the gender they were assigned at birth.

The other bill would ban trans women from playing sports in middle school and high school. And the third bill is the hate crime legislation that now leaves out members of the LGBTQ community. The sponsor of the bills banning children from having the same medical procedures Grayson had says this doesn’t come from a hateful place.

“To be making a decision like that with lifelong consequences between the ages of say 12 and 18 is just something I don’t think is prudent,” said Rep Cezar McKnight, (D). “I don’t care what adults do as long as it’s not harming someone else.”

His colleagues said all these bills together aren’t targeting anyone as some critics say it is.

“If you ask for something and get a reply it’s called an answer not a target,” said Rep. Chris Wooten, (R). “We wouldn’t be having this issue if someone had not asked to be involved as a male in women’s sports or a transgender in sports. We wouldn’t be having these conversations if people weren’t getting surgery before the age of 18.”


Bipartisan? Are Democrats Torries in South Carolina?


Democrats in the South, especially outside the larger cities, are especially vulnerable to the whims of the Republican base, and tend to have to be more conservative.
Lib-left. Antifascist, antitankie, anti-capitalist. Christian (Unitarian Universalist). Background in physics.
Mostly a girl. She or they pronouns, please. Unrepentant transbian.
Reject tradition, embrace modernity.
People who call themselves based NEVER are.
RIP Borderlands of Rojava.
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Suriyanakhon
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Suriyanakhon » Sat Mar 13, 2021 6:28 pm

> trans girls will dominate female sports in middle school
> there's a serious number of vague gender affirmation surgeries “before the age of 18”

I feel like you have to pick one.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:22 pm

Add Montana to the list

Ali Bovingdon, chief legal counsel for the Commissioner’s Office, said Thursday the university system plans to oppose that bill in the Senate. Rep. John Fuller, (R), sponsored House Bill 112, which would require transgender female athletes to participate on a men’s team instead of a women’s team.

The bill was passed in the Montana House and is currently in the Senate. The measure is similar to one that passed in Idaho, where a judge temporarily stopped implementation as a court challenge progresses.
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