Trans Discussion Thread: Catgirls Don't Need Litterboxes

[Vassenor]

So, DC comics is making Superman bisexual or his son. What are people's thoughts on this new culture war? Conservatives and myself, hate it. Not the end of the world but dang, this is Hollywood or woke culture ruining another thing from my standpoint. A sign of the times?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/11/entertai ... index.html

I really don't mind if superman's son is bi, however I do mind that it's just another reimagining for the sake of identity politics rather than being made by fans for fans. The Critical Drinker described it well.

What is identity politics anyway? I thought it was meant to be expecting a given demographic to vote a certain way by virtue of being that demographic.

[Uiiop]

So, DC comics is making Superman bisexual or his son. What are people's thoughts on this new culture war? Conservatives and myself, hate it. Not the end of the world but dang, this is Hollywood or woke culture ruining another thing from my standpoint. A sign of the times?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/11/entertai ... index.html

I really don't mind if superman's son is bi, however I do mind that it's just another reimagining for the sake of identity politics rather than being made by fans for fans. The Critical Drinker described it well.

There's not really any "Idpol done for only idpol's sake". At most it's just "Fans who make sludge in attempting to include minority fans". Making mediocrity and genuine enjoying what you're making aren't opposites.

So your concern is better directed against things sucking rather than looking out for manipulative fake fans creating shit.

[SD_Film Artists]

I really don't mind if superman's son is bi, however I do mind that it's just another reimagining for the sake of identity politics rather than being made by fans for fans. The Critical Drinker described it well.

What is identity politics anyway? I thought it was meant to be expecting a given demographic to vote a certain way by virtue of being that demographic.

It's a wide subject but in this context it's the difference between Ellen Ripley and [insert female character from recent remake]:

Ellen Ripley- A strong, independant female character who plays a leading role in a movie. While her gender may be an important symbolic departure from male characters, it doesn't come at the expense of writing quality or at the expense of other groups. This is healthy progressivism.

[insert female character from recent remake]: Attempts to put their gender at the front and centre of the plot, to the point that any white males are either evil or stupid. Since traditional femininity is to be avoided she attempts to be as manly as possible while simultaneously being a raging misandrist. This is identity politics.

[Uiiop]

What is identity politics anyway? I thought it was meant to be expecting a given demographic to vote a certain way by virtue of being that demographic.

It's a wide subject but in this context it's the difference between Ellen Ripley and [insert female character from recent remake]:

Ellen Ripley- A strong, independant female character who plays a leading role in a movie. While her gender may be an important symbolic departure from male characters, it doesn't come at the expense of writing quality or at the expense of other groups. This is healthy progressivism.

[insert female character from recent remake]: Attempts to put their gender at the front and centre of the plot, to the point that any white males are either evil or stupid. Since traditional femininity is to be avoided she attempts to be as manly as possible while simultaneously being a raging misandrist. This is identity politics.

So it's basically "I don't like thing so they must be fake fans being bigots."


Ghostbusters 2016 sucked ass but they were pretty feminine and stupid in it and all indications were that the people who were writing loved the franchise and were sincere . The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon. The actors are literally friends with some of the old cast. Being mean to your critics then sucking anyway is not an indicator of insincerity.

if it's something else then why undermine your point by not actually pointing at an example. People will still be defensive of either the film you're implying it is or that there's isn't a problem. Sounds like a coward when you're fine with being mobbed in the UK thread. What? Are stans just going to log in and make things worse?

[SD_Film Artists]

It's a wide subject but in this context it's the difference between Ellen Ripley and [insert female character from recent remake]:

Ellen Ripley- A strong, independant female character who plays a leading role in a movie. While her gender may be an important symbolic departure from male characters, it doesn't come at the expense of writing quality or at the expense of other groups. This is healthy progressivism.

[insert female character from recent remake]: Attempts to put their gender at the front and centre of the plot, to the point that any white males are either evil or stupid. Since traditional femininity is to be avoided she attempts to be as manly as possible while simultaneously being a raging misandrist. This is identity politics.

So it's basically "I don't like thing so they must be fake fans being bigots."

More like "any criticism of this movie is by istaphobe manbaby incels even if they're women".

Ghostbusters 2016 sucked ass but they were pretty feminine and stupid in it and all indications were that the people who were writing loved the franchise and were sincere . The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon. The actors are literally friends with some of the old cast. Being mean to your critics then sucking anyway is not an indicator of insincerity.

As shown in the video, there's a pretty formulaic attitude which births these movies.

"The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon."
Then why did some of the cast act so victimised when the canon stops mentioning them?

Sounds like a coward when you're fine with being mobbed in the UK thread. What? Are stans just going to log in and make things worse?

Did I miss something? I was discussing employment economics with two or three other posters. I disagree with Fartsniffage but Nilokeras has given a very constructive and thoughtful reply. I don't see how this is being "mobbed" or how it's relevant to this thread.

[Vassenor]

So we’re doing the “stop giving existing characters development that makes their sexuality not what I assumed it was” thing then.

[SD_Film Artists]

So we’re doing the “stop giving existing characters development that makes their sexuality not what I assumed it was” thing then.

You mean the kind of "development" which is full of double standards? Will you be happy with a gay couple who are turned straight in a reboot, or a white Black Panther?

[Uiiop]

So it's basically "I don't like thing so they must be fake fans being bigots."

More like "any criticism of this movie is by istaphobe manbaby incels even if they're women".

Ghostbusters 2016 sucked ass but they were pretty feminine and stupid in it and all indications were that the people who were writing loved the franchise and were sincere . The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon. The actors are literally friends with some of the old cast. Being mean to your critics then sucking anyway is not an indicator of insincerity.

As shown in the video, there's a pretty formulaic attitude which births these movies.

"The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon."
Then why did some of the cast get so victimised when the canon stops mentioning them?

Sounds like a coward when you're fine with being mobbed in the UK thread. What? Are stans just going to log in and make things worse?

Did I miss something? I was discussing employment economics with two or three other posters. I disagree with Fartsniffage but Nilokeras has given a very constructive and thoughtful reply. I don't see how this is being "mobbed" or how it's relevant to this thread.

I just confused with that's so bad about saying Ghostbusters 2016.

It's not like being formulaic is in itself a bad thing nor even if is like in this case it's a sign of being sincere. The shitty formula is just shitty hollywood comedy not an "woke" one and that's the only example you've got and it doesn't even fit for previous stated reasons. The girls were idiots and even if it focused on male dicks and idiots part of their problem with them are caused by their own recklessness(Murray character in particular.)

There's an difference between not messing with the original character lives/ setting and just wanting an mention Even if one who wants the latter is overtly offended that doesn't make their reasoning to avoid the former insincere.

Edit: The Star wars sequels also doesn't count. LMAO

[Uiiop]

So we’re doing the “stop giving existing characters development that makes their sexuality not what I assumed it was” thing then.

You mean the kind of "development" which is full of double standards? Will you be happy with a gay couple who are turned straight in a reboot, or a white Black Panther?

It already happened and no one cared.
Well biracial so not really.

[SD_Film Artists]

More like "any criticism of this movie is by istaphobe manbaby incels even if they're women".






As shown in the video, there's a pretty formulaic attitude which births these movies.

"The whole reason it was a reboot was because they didn't want to fuck with the canon."
Then why did some of the cast get so victimised when the canon stops mentioning them?



Did I miss something? I was discussing employment economics with two or three other posters. I disagree with Fartsniffage but Nilokeras has given a very constructive and thoughtful reply. I don't see how this is being "mobbed" or how it's relevant to this thread.

I just confused with that's so bad about saying Ghostbusters 2016.

It's not like being formulaic is in itself a bad thing nor even if is like in this case it's a sign of being sincere. The shitty formula is just shitty hollywood comedy not an "woke" one and that's the only example you've got and it doesn't even fit for previous stated reasons. The girls were idiots and even if it focused on male dicks and idiots part of their problem with them are caused by their own recklessness(Murray character in particular.)

There's an difference between not messing with the original character lives/ setting and just wanting an mention Even if one who wants the latter is overtly offended that doesn't make their reasoning to avoid the former insincere.

Edit: The Star wars sequels also doesn't count. LMAO

Indeed being formulaic isn't always bad, but it is bad when the component parts lead to a bad film and then refuse to fix said bad parts because the agenda train has no breaks.

As for francaises, I'm thinking more of things like Dr Who, Star Trek, He Man and Star Wa..pfff just saw the edit

You mean the kind of "development" which is full of double standards? Will you be happy with a gay couple who are turned straight in a reboot, or a white Black Panther?

It already happened and no one cared.

Cool, let's make it the next Black Panther movie. I'm sure Twitter will love it.

[Vassenor]

Here’s a revolutionary idea: stop treating cishet as the default and thus that characters must be cishet until proven otherwise.

[Uiiop]

I just confused with that's so bad about saying Ghostbusters 2016.

It's not like being formulaic is in itself a bad thing nor even if is like in this case it's a sign of being sincere. The shitty formula is just shitty hollywood comedy not an "woke" one and that's the only example you've got and it doesn't even fit for previous stated reasons. The girls were idiots and even if it focused on male dicks and idiots part of their problem with them are caused by their own recklessness(Murray character in particular.)

There's an difference between not messing with the original character lives/ setting and just wanting an mention Even if one who wants the latter is overtly offended that doesn't make their reasoning to avoid the former insincere.

Edit: The Star wars sequels also doesn't count. LMAO

Indeed being formulaic isn't always bad, but it is bad when the component parts lead to a bad film and then refuse to fix said bad parts because the agenda train has no breaks.

As for francaises, I'm thinking more of things like Dr Who, Star Trek, He Man and Star Wa..pfff just saw the edit

It already happened and no one cared.

Cool, let's make it the next Black Panther movie. I'm sure Twitter will love it.

People just saw chicks and got mad. It has nothing to do with the actual reasons the movie sucked and it would have the same problems if they were all dudes in the first place.

Also asserting examples without explanations or proof is just shit arguing. Star trek for all it's faults doesn't fit your formula and neither does star wars. And it's absurd to state that an show literally called he-man is a part of it.

I think the closest mainstream movie that fits your argument is aquamen but that exist in context of an universe that's distinctly not that.

[SD_Film Artists]

Here’s a revolutionary idea: stop treating cishet as the default and thus that characters must be cishet until proven otherwise.

Actually I thought that Catradora works very well both as a plot device* and as a believable couple, it's more the agendered baggage with aforementioned double-standards which raises red flags.

[SD_Film Artists]

Indeed being formulaic isn't always bad, but it is bad when the component parts lead to a bad film and then refuse to fix said bad parts because the agenda train has no breaks.

As for francaises, I'm thinking more of things like Dr Who, Star Trek, He Man and Star Wa..pfff just saw the edit



Cool, let's make it the next Black Panther movie. I'm sure Twitter will love it.

People just saw chicks and got mad. It has nothing to do with the actual reasons the movie sucked and it would have the same problems if they were all dudes in the first place.

And when fans pointed out said actual reasons, they were then called misogynistic incels even if they're female fans.

Also asserting examples without explanations or proof is just shit arguing. Star trek for all it's fault doesn't fit your formula and neither does star wars. And it's absurd to state that an show literally called he-man is a part of it.

I've already linked to the video, though granted that one was more of an overview of a wider problem rather than a deep review of each francaise.

Star Trek Discovery attributes the story's successes to one Mary Sue character while belittling/tarnishing the legacies of older characters and turning white males into villains or idiots.

Dr Who- basically the same thing.

He Man- turned He Man into a minor killed-off character in his own show, which aside from the politics was also just plain false advertising. They didn't even get the female character right as she was turned into another self-centered Mary Sue.

Mulan- Not exactly 'woke' but it is more Mary Sueism. No gradual earned build-up of skills and showing that regular women can be inspiring; instead just giving her superpowers from the first scene because why not? It's not as if the training scenes were the best part of the original film or anything..

[Saiwania]

Here’s a revolutionary idea: stop treating cishet as the default and thus that characters must be cishet until proven otherwise.

Cishet should be the default if most people fall into that category by default. Do many people truly want to see a LGBT centered show or one with such a protagonist? This Hollywood trend of putting in queer or non-binary characters just for the sake of it, is really outrageous to me. Its a culture war the right isn't winning to enough of an extent.

[Uiiop]

People just saw chicks and got mad. It has nothing to do with the actual reasons the movie sucked and it would have the same problems if they were all dudes in the first place.

And when fans pointed out said actual reasons, they were then called misogynistic incels even if they're female fans.

Also asserting examples without explanations or proof is just shit arguing. Star trek for all it's fault doesn't fit your formula and neither does star wars. And it's absurd to state that an show literally called he-man is a part of it.

I've already linked to the video, though granted that one was more of an overview of a wider problem rather than a deep review of each francaise.

Star Trek Discovery attributes the story's successes to one Mary Sue character while belittling/tarnishing the legacies of older characters and turning white males into villains or idiots.

Dr Who- basically the same thing.

He Man- turned He Man into a minor killed-off character in his own show, which aside from the politics was also just plain false advertising. They didn't even get the female character right as she was turned into another self-centered Mary Sue.

Mulan- Not exactly 'woke' but it is more Mary Sueism. No gradual earned build-up of skills and showing that regular women can be inspiring; instead just giving her superpowers from the first scene because why not? It's not as if the training scenes were the best part of the original film or anything..

The wikipedia episode list literally contradicts what you're saying. Unless Adora is an different character from she-ra and she died in the first season.
Dr who literally just has the same problems it had when the mary sue was a marty sue and discovery is just dumb execution of it's intentionally grating character rather than thinking anyone's perfect IIRC she was supposed to suck.

As for mulan: China ain't woke and it has the opposite problem of what you think it was.

The fact stans were mean to critics has nothing to do with the creator's fault. Hollywood doesn't really take feedback like you want it too even if it didn't have an "Agenda"(which it didn't) and doesn't control it's stans. So this is an really weird thing to blame the artist for. Like do you actually think people just change because an trailer which lies sucked or that there's changes post-release beyond director's cut. That's not how that world works.

No one really has an consistent hang on this kind of issue not even politicians.

For someone salty at people with agenda pissing on the past you seem to ignore the past when how both these creators actually respect the past and suck it's full dick in what they're doing. Even if what happens isn't actually an good thing it doesn't mean they're just having an agenda.

I mean the edgelord kevin smith just killed someone for feminist cred? Get real.

[Ifreann]

Identity politics is when they make the tv show be different from my toys.

[Vassenor]

Star Trek Discovery attributes the story's successes to one Mary Sue character while belittling/tarnishing the legacies of older characters and turning white males into villains or idiots.

Dr Who- basically the same thing.

...Did we watch the same shows? Because I never got that impression from either one.

[The Kingdom of the Three Isles]

So, DC comics is making Superman bisexual or his son. What are people's thoughts on this new culture war? Conservatives and myself, hate it. Not the end of the world but dang, this is Hollywood or woke culture ruining another thing from my standpoint. A sign of the times?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/11/entertai ... index.html

We should just normalise all this. I know that this is breaking barriers, but to fully achieve equality, we shouldn't just make a huge fuss just because Superman's son happens to likes boys and girls both.

[SD_Film Artists]

And when fans pointed out said actual reasons, they were then called misogynistic incels even if they're female fans.



I've already linked to the video, though granted that one was more of an overview of a wider problem rather than a deep review of each francaise.

Star Trek Discovery attributes the story's successes to one Mary Sue character while belittling/tarnishing the legacies of older characters and turning white males into villains or idiots.

Dr Who- basically the same thing.

He Man- turned He Man into a minor killed-off character in his own show, which aside from the politics was also just plain false advertising. They didn't even get the female character right as she was turned into another self-centered Mary Sue.

Mulan- Not exactly 'woke' but it is more Mary Sueism. No gradual earned build-up of skills and showing that regular women can be inspiring; instead just giving her superpowers from the first scene because why not? It's not as if the training scenes were the best part of the original film or anything..

The wikipedia episode list literally contradicts what you're saying. Unless Adora is an different character from she-ra and she died in the first season.
Dr who literally just has the same problems it had when the mary sue was a marty sue and discovery is just dumb execution of it's intentionally grating character rather than thinking anyone's perfect IIRC she was supposed to suck.

As for mulan: China ain't woke and it has the opposite problem of what you think it was.

I meant Teela. She's supposed to be the new main character* that we're supposed to like as an admirable, heroic person and yet she unironically complains at He-Man for having the audacity to die and leave people behind after his death; like an animated version of Hilary Clinton's "women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat".

*again not sure why she's the main character when it was sold as a He-Man show, as in an actual direct He-Man show rather than a spin-off like She-ra.

The fact stans were mean to critics has nothing to do with the creator's fault. Hollywood doesn't really take feedback like you want it too even if it didn't have an "Agenda"(which it didn't) and doesn't control it's stans. So this is an really weird thing to blame the artist for. Like do you actually think people just change because an trailer which lies sucked or that there's changes post-release beyond director's cut. That's not how that world works.

With these shows and others like it there's members of the production cast and crew who come out with this garbage. As with Ghostbusters 2016, five years on Melissa McCarthy still can't get over the "toxic fandom" (people who don't think her movie was perfect and dared to criticise).

For someone salty at people with agenda pissing on the past you seem to ignore the past when how both these creators actually respect the past and suck it's full dick in what they're doing. Even if what happens isn't actually an good thing it doesn't mean they're just having an agenda.

You mean how William Hartnell's Doctor is no longer the first? Or how Star Wars fans had to wait for a small scene in The Mandalorian to actually get a decent Luke Skywalker scene? Or How the Ghostbusters 2016 cast & shills are still salty at it being practically de-canoned even though they apparently never wanted to change the canon?

I mean the edgelord kevin smith just killed someone for feminist cred? Get real.

I don't know what his reasons were, but regardless it was a bait-and-switch trick on the fans.

[Vassenor]

Or how Star Wars fans had to wait for a small scene in The Mandalorian to actually get a decent Luke Skywalker scene?

Wait, are you seriously complaining that the show tried to stand on its own rather than relying on fanservice?

You mean how William Hartnell's Doctor is no longer the first?

Newsflash: retcons happen all the time.

[SD_Film Artists]

Or how Star Wars fans had to wait for a small scene in The Mandalorian to actually get a decent Luke Skywalker scene?

Wait, are you seriously complaining that the show tried to stand on its own rather than relying on fanservice?

By 'stand on its own' you mean relying on Mary Sue tropes?

You mean how William Hartnell's Doctor is no longer the first?

Newsflash: retcons happen all the time.

Retcons aren't automatically bad but one can't claim to be respecting the past while shitting all over it; especially when 'throw away the past' (hint hint let's purposely disapoint those silly incel fans, hint nudge nudge) is becoming an increasingly common trope.

[Vassenor]

Wait, are you seriously complaining that the show tried to stand on its own rather than relying on fanservice?

By 'stand on its own' you mean relying on Mary Sue tropes?

Newsflash: retcons happen all the time.

Retcons aren't automatically bad, but one can't claim to be respecting the past while shitting all over it.

Apparently Din is a Mary Sue now. Huh.

[SD_Film Artists]

By 'stand on its own' you mean relying on Mary Sue tropes?



Retcons aren't automatically bad, but one can't claim to be respecting the past while shitting all over it.

Apparently Din is a Mary Sue now. Huh.

Ray. Like Mulan, she didn't require any training that her forebears did; she was just immediately The Chosen One™, along with the other aspects of lazy writing which comes with that trope.

[Vassenor]

Apparently Din is a Mary Sue now. Huh.

Ray. Like Mulan, she didn't require any training that her forebears did; she was just immediately The Chosen One™, along with the other aspects of lazy writing which comes with that trope.

Right then. First of all you were talking about The Mandalorian and complaining that it didn’t give you enough fanservice, and now you’re ignoring both times we’re shown Rey training in the films among other things. By this logic Luke and Anakin are both examples of a Mary Sue because we’re never shown them training to fly that specific straighter before they use it to save the day like they’re an expert at flying it.