Trans Discussion Thread: Catgirls Don't Need Litterboxes

[Trebinorka]

this is certaintly not torture tho

[Vassenor]

this is certaintly not torture tho

TIL psychological abuse is not torture.

[Zul-ar]

this is certaintly not torture tho

TIL psychological abuse is not torture.

It's not psychological abuse either. A gay man choosing to be celibate, and his Church encouraging him, is no more psychological abuse than anyone else taking a vow of celibacy for their religious beliefs.

[Vassenor]

TIL psychological abuse is not torture.

It's not psychological abuse either. A gay man choosing to be celibate, and his Church encouraging him, is no more psychological abuse than anyone else taking a vow of celibacy for their religious beliefs.

And how do they go about encouraging him? And I mean in the real world, not in hypotheticals.

[Kowani]

Kansas has entered the Battle!

Conservative Republicans advanced a proposal Tuesday that would ban transgender students from girl's and women's sports in Kansas schools and colleges, and supporters are increasingly confident of success.


The state Senate Education Committee approved the bill on a voice vote after a brief debate, sending it to the full Senate, where GOP leaders have identified the measure as a priority. The state association that oversees middle and high school activities in Kansas has said it knows of only five transgender students currently active in K-12 activities, and there's no record of any transgender school sports champions. But supporters argue that a ban would promote fairness in girls' and women's sports and repeatedly point to the 15 championships won between 2017 and 2019 by two transgender high school runners in Connecticut, which prompted a federal lawsuit.

“If we have five, then that's a threat to every girl's opportunity, and there's plenty of other opportunities for biological boys to compete,” said Brittany Jones, advocacy director for the conservative Family Policy Alliance of Kansas. “It doesn't have to be a very large number to have a huge impact.”

Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly hasn't said publicly whether she would veto the measure, but she has advocated for LGBTQ rights. She signed an executive order on her second day in office banning discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in state hiring and employment decisions.

Jones said she's confident that the measure has enough support to overcome a potential veto by Kelly. Republicans hold supermajorities in both chambers, and the 2020 elections made the Legislature more conservative.

She and other supporters of the bill say they are defending hard-won opportunities for women in sports and other activities made possible by federal civil rights laws starting in the 1970s. The two Democrats on the nine-member Senate committee voted against the bill, as did moderate GOP Sen. Brenda Dietrich, of Topeka, a former school superintendent. The state's school activities association has had policies for allowing transgender students' participation for about a decade.

“This doesn't really seem to be an issue in Kansas at this point in time,” Dietrich said. “I want to choose compassion and local control today.”

[The Solan Autonomy]

It's not psychological abuse either. A gay man choosing to be celibate, and his Church encouraging him, is no more psychological abuse than anyone else taking a vow of celibacy for their religious beliefs.

And how do they go about encouraging him? And I mean in the real world, not in hypotheticals.

I have some experience in the church. The encouragement tends to come down to hugboxing while still affirming that they’re somehow “flawed,” and need to “overcome their nature.” If the gay person came to the conclusion on their own (somehow), then they probably feel reassured, but if they’re being pressured by the church (as I felt I was)... it’s a special kind of hell.

EDIT: I should say that I’m still a Christian, it’s just that my very conservative church was... bad...

[Ayytaly]

So much for March being International Women's Month.

Legit question to those who now identify as female: Do you believe native women have a rational basis to feel that their struggle to succeed in a physical field historically dominated exclusively by men is being hindered and encroached by trans athletes and those pushing for the abolition of biological sex classification in favor of gender identity?


(Native means born, btw. Not in indigenous context at all.)

You mean natal, not native, but what you probably should say is cis, just so you know.

And also, that's a bit of a loaded question. But to answer it, no, sexual dimorphism is not that big in mammals especially in humans and frankly, coed sports can be a thing, if you must create control groups, put it to something like weight classes.

But frankly, this is not about 'fairness in sports' it never was, it's about slowly but surely eroding trans people out from the public sphere.

So cis women shouldn't have a say?

[Suriyanakhon]

Legit question to those who now identify as female: Do you believe native women have a rational basis to feel that their struggle to succeed in a physical field historically dominated exclusively by men is being hindered and encroached by trans athletes and those pushing for the abolition of biological sex classification in favor of gender identity?

As someone who planned to try out for my school's sports, I feel like policy should be based on whether or not it can be shown that trans women have a serious biological advantage over cis female athletes that extends to all of us. Given that all of the legislation has been introduced solely by a party which is known for seeing bigotry as a divine right, I'm skeptical that it's based on anything but a desire to exclude, much like the military ban.

[Ayytaly]

Legit question to those who now identify as female: Do you believe native women have a rational basis to feel that their struggle to succeed in a physical field historically dominated exclusively by men is being hindered and encroached by trans athletes and those pushing for the abolition of biological sex classification in favor of gender identity?

As someone who planned to try out for my school's sports, I feel like policy should be based on whether or not it can be shown that trans women have a serious biological advantage over cis female athletes that extends to all of us. Given that all of the legislation has been introduced solely by a party which is known for seeing bigotry as a divine right, I'm skeptical that it's based on anything but a desire to exclude, much like the military ban.

It's a shrewd tactic to get female support, especially on March.

[Kowani]

Kansas has entered the Battle!

Conservative Republicans advanced a proposal Tuesday that would ban transgender students from girl's and women's sports in Kansas schools and colleges, and supporters are increasingly confident of success.


The state Senate Education Committee approved the bill on a voice vote after a brief debate, sending it to the full Senate, where GOP leaders have identified the measure as a priority. The state association that oversees middle and high school activities in Kansas has said it knows of only five transgender students currently active in K-12 activities, and there's no record of any transgender school sports champions. But supporters argue that a ban would promote fairness in girls' and women's sports and repeatedly point to the 15 championships won between 2017 and 2019 by two transgender high school runners in Connecticut, which prompted a federal lawsuit.

“If we have five, then that's a threat to every girl's opportunity, and there's plenty of other opportunities for biological boys to compete,” said Brittany Jones, advocacy director for the conservative Family Policy Alliance of Kansas. “It doesn't have to be a very large number to have a huge impact.”

Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly hasn't said publicly whether she would veto the measure, but she has advocated for LGBTQ rights. She signed an executive order on her second day in office banning discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in state hiring and employment decisions.

Jones said she's confident that the measure has enough support to overcome a potential veto by Kelly. Republicans hold supermajorities in both chambers, and the 2020 elections made the Legislature more conservative.

She and other supporters of the bill say they are defending hard-won opportunities for women in sports and other activities made possible by federal civil rights laws starting in the 1970s. The two Democrats on the nine-member Senate committee voted against the bill, as did moderate GOP Sen. Brenda Dietrich, of Topeka, a former school superintendent. The state's school activities association has had policies for allowing transgender students' participation for about a decade.

“This doesn't really seem to be an issue in Kansas at this point in time,” Dietrich said. “I want to choose compassion and local control today.”

It has now passed the Senate

[Vassenor]

You mean natal, not native, but what you probably should say is cis, just so you know.

And also, that's a bit of a loaded question. But to answer it, no, sexual dimorphism is not that big in mammals especially in humans and frankly, coed sports can be a thing, if you must create control groups, put it to something like weight classes.

But frankly, this is not about 'fairness in sports' it never was, it's about slowly but surely eroding trans people out from the public sphere.

So cis women shouldn't have a say?

So the cis women saying the idea is bunk don't count?

[The Blaatschapen]

https://www.nu.nl/verkiezingsnieuws/612 ... kamer.html

First transgender person in parliament in the Netherlands.

[Auzkhia]

You mean natal, not native, but what you probably should say is cis, just so you know.

And also, that's a bit of a loaded question. But to answer it, no, sexual dimorphism is not that big in mammals especially in humans and frankly, coed sports can be a thing, if you must create control groups, put it to something like weight classes.

But frankly, this is not about 'fairness in sports' it never was, it's about slowly but surely eroding trans people out from the public sphere.

So cis women shouldn't have a say?

Again, loaded questions.

And like, my say is just as valid, if not more since the topic is primarily transmisogynist, and therefore something that directly affects transfeminine people. Then again, a lot of transphobia is old fashioned misogyny and a lot of people hate trans women because they found a group of women they feel they are allowed to hate, and also the fact that transmisogyny puts trans women as the ultimate threat to gender as we know it.

[Kowani]

Alabama House to vote on bill making it a felony to prescribe puberty-blocking medications or hormones as transgender treatments for minors

A bill to make it a felony to prescribe puberty-blocking medications or hormones as transgender treatments for minors won approval today in the House Health Committee.

The bill by Republican Sen. Shay Shelnutt of Trussville and Republican Rep. Wes Allen of Troy would also ban transgender surgeries on minors, which officials have said are not done in Alabama now.

The committee passed the bill on a voice vote, so there was not a listing of who voted yes or no. The bill has had strong support from Republicans and passed the Senate 23-4. It moves to the House floor.

“We just don’t think minors should be making these decisions that can have lifelong consequences,” Shelnutt told the committee before the vote. “Altering one’s DNA to physically change one’s gender is impossible. And attempting to do so can create psychological challenges.”

“The bottom line is we have a responsibility to protect Alabama’s children,” Shelnutt said. “Minors are not mentally capable of making a decision of this caliber, and it’s our responsibility as lawmakers to ensure they are protected.”

Rep. Joe Lovvorn, R-Auburn, a firefighter for the city of Auburn, said he thought the bill went too far. Lovvorn said he has answered emergency calls on teenage suicides during his 24-year career, including one involving a teen in which gender dysphoria was believed to be a factor.

“I think we’re taking away too many tools in the tool chest that a parent, a responsible parent who’s just trying to figure this all out, can’t even have on the table,” Lovvorn said. “And it’s not something that from what I can find is widely used. And it’s not something that most of us can even understand. And I feel that we could add to that teenage suicide rate unfortunately if we take away too many of those toolkits for parents to use to keep their kids moving forward.”

Lovvorn said he would support a bill banning only surgeries and some limits on the use of medication, but thought the bill as written took away too many options.

The Health Committee adopted an amendment from Lovvorn that removed the criminal liability for pharmacists for filling a prescription for puberty-blockers or hormones as transgender treatments for minors. The committee adopted a second amendment, by Rep. Charlotte Meadows, R-Montgomery, that said the bill could not be construed to limit the work of psychologists and mental health professionals “from rendering the services for which they are qualified.”

A third amendment adopted was intended to clarify that circumcisions are not prohibited.

[Suriyanakhon]

A third amendment adopted was intended to clarify that circumcisions are not prohibited.

There's so much irony here.

[North Rosmana]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

[Auzkhia]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

Feminine and Masculine are from Latin.

As a German speaker, I know it's weiblich und männlich. Feminin und maskulin only refer to grammatical gender though.

[North Rosmana]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

Feminine and Masculine are from Latin.

As a German speaker, I know it's weiblich und männlich. Feminin und maskulin only refer to grammatical gender though.

Well, some use it for describing personality traits as well.

It confuses the **** out of me.

[Auzkhia]

Feminine and Masculine are from Latin.

As a German speaker, I know it's weiblich und männlich. Feminin und maskulin only refer to grammatical gender though.

Well, some use it for describing personality traits as well.

It confuses the **** out of me.

Feminine and masculine personality traits are really just cultural norms that exist in the moment and can change or fade at any time.

[North Rosmana]

Well, some use it for describing personality traits as well.

It confuses the **** out of me.

Feminine and masculine personality traits are really just cultural norms that exist in the moment and can change or fade at any time.

Well, most treat it like they are facts, and sorry, but I do not have anything feminine in me that I can prove.

[Dumb Ideologies]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

I hear they have the world's largest cloggendered community (when asked for pronouns will reply "wooden shoe like to know").

[North Rosmana]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

I hear they have the world's largest cloggendered community (when asked for pronouns will reply "wooden shoe like to know").

That was 100 years ago, hardly anybody uses those anymore.

Edit: LOL though.

[The Blaatschapen]

Wanne know what is the most confusing about talking gender with a Dutch person?

The words Feminine and Masculine translate to Female-like and Male-like.

I hear they have the world's largest cloggendered community (when asked for pronouns will reply "wooden shoe like to know").

That's racist!

[Kowani]

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem (R) will not sign a bill banning transgender athletes-at least in its current form

Gov. Kristi Noem is OK with a ban on trans girls playing girls' sports in high school, but doesn't want it extended to college athletics. The first-term Republican governor said Friday in a news release that she is exercising her special power to make style and form changes to House Bill 1217, which as originally written would have required athletes participating in sanctioned sports in South Dakota to compete in events that align with their sex determined at birth.

Sponsored by Sioux Falls-area lawmakers Rep. Rhonda Milstead (R) and Sen. Maggie Sutton (R), the measure would have applied to all K-12 and collegiate athletic events held in South Dakota. But amid concerns over economic backlash and the potential for South Dakota to lose sanctioned sporting events like NCAA tournaments, Noem is sending the bill back to the Legislature. "Unfortunately, as I have studied this legislation and conferred with legal experts over the past several days, I have become concerned that this bill’s vague and overly broad language could have significant unintended consequences," Noem said in a letter sent to media and legislators.
Short of vetoing the bill, the style-and-form recommendations require a simple majority of the Legislature to affirm the changes the governor wants.


Noem's decision not to sign the bill is an about-face from where she was the day it passed. When it cleared the Senate in early March, Noem expressed her excitement to sign the bill into law.

But earlier this week, she told the Argus Leader that she'd since determined there were unforeseen problems with the bill. And in her statement Friday, she said after consulting with attorneys and considering the emotional challenges facing young people, more precise language in such a law is necessary.

"Overall, these style and form clarifications protect women sports while also showing empathy for youths struggling with what they understand to be their gender identity," Noem wrote. "But showing empathy does not mean a biologically-female-at birth woman should face an unbalanced playing field that effectively undermines the advances made by women and for women since the implementation of Title IX in 1972."
Under HB 1217 as passed by the Legislature, students who want to join athletic programs would need to submit statements verifying their age, biological sex and that they haven’t taken any steroids in the 12 months preceding their competition in the team or sport. The statement must be signed by their parent(s) if they are under 18. Noem's use of the style-and-form veto could also be headed to court. Milstead said she believes the recommended modifications to HB 1217 that the governor has made go beyond minor, house-keeping updates. Rather, they substantively change what the bill does, she said.

And a legal challenge isn't out of the realm of possibilities, she said.

"These are not just style and form changes," Milstead said. "Whether that constitutional challenge happens before, during or after Veto Day, I'm not sure."

Lawmakers will return to the Capitol on March 29 for the annual Veto Day where they consider gubernatorial vetoes along with style-and-form recommendations.

Style-and-form recommendations require a majority of lawmakers in both the Senate and the House to affirm. If legislators don't affirm the changes to HB 1217 is recommending, the bill is then considered vetoed.

And that would likely spell HB 1217's complete demise as it didn't have support of a super-majority of lawmakers when it passed out of both the House and Senate.

[Kowani]

Imagine being left in the hallway during a school shooter drill because the teachers couldn't decide which bathroom to put you in

LGBTQ advocacy group Equality SCPS said a transgender middle school student was forced to sit away from her peers during a mass shooter drill because administrators couldn’t decide whether she should take shelter with the boys or the girls.
During the drill at Stafford County Middle School in Virginia, students were apparently instructed to take shelter in the closest bathroom or locker room, according to Metro Weekly. The student, whose name is being withheld, was allegedly forced to sit by herself on the bleachers and then in the hallway as teachers debated where she should take shelter.

“One student was prevented from entering either the boys or girls locker room while the teachers discussed where she should go. The student was forced to watch the adults charged with her care, debate the safest place (for the other students) to have her shelter,” Equality SCPS wrote in a Facebook post. “During this debate, she was instructed to sit in the gym with a teacher until the drill was complete, away from her peers and identified as different. After some additional debate, she was made to sit in the locker room hall way [sic], by the door away from her peers. This happened because the child, in addition to being a model student, also happens to be transgender.”
[...]“Stafford County Public Schools does not comment on individual student incidents to avoid divulging confidential information,” Stafford County Public Schools said in a statement to Teen Vogue. “However, the new superintendent has requested a review of all protocols and procedures including safety to ensure that all children are treated with dignity and respect. We take such matters very seriously and they will be addressed. The welfare of all students is of the utmost importance for SCPS.”