Trans Discussion Thread V: Catgirls Don't Need Litterboxes

[Lady Victory]

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

I can only work with the bounds of the laws passed by the states themselves-local conditions are harder to pinpoint
with that caveat, there are people dedicated to this which have in-depth indexes

in that paradigm, i'd say urban areas are a safer bet than rural ones on average (though they're no paradise either)

but having gone through the indexes, your best shot with laws on the books is the following collective

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Illinois
Maine
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
Washington

i can do a dive into hate crimes and discrimination cases in those areas, if you want, as a proxy attitude for local discrimination and transpeople's comfortability with coming out

That'd be great, thanks.

[Kowani]

I can only work with the bounds of the laws passed by the states themselves-local conditions are harder to pinpoint
with that caveat, there are people dedicated to this which have in-depth indexes

in that paradigm, i'd say urban areas are a safer bet than rural ones on average (though they're no paradise either)

but having gone through the indexes, your best shot with laws on the books is the following collective

California
Colorado
Connecticut
Hawaii
Illinois
Maine
Nevada
New Jersey
New York
Rhode Island
Washington

i can do a dive into hate crimes and discrimination cases in those areas, if you want, as a proxy attitude for local discrimination and transpeople's comfortability with coming out

That'd be great, thanks.

okay so
massive caveat
crime data in this country fucking sucks
the FBI's crime data collection is entirely voluntary
for example, on hate crimes, only 2 departments from Alabama chose to even participate at all (and they didn't submit anything)

so with that in mind, the first thing I did was get a state-by-state dive of the 11 states we set as the "gold standard"

Hate Crimes-Bias Motivation: Gender Identity
California: 33
Colorado: 5
Connecticut: 0
Hawaii: 0
Illinois: 0
Maine: 0
Nevada: 2
New Jersey: 8
New York: 16
Washington: 17

but this is
really shitty data
so the next step was doing it through the state agencies
Unfortunately, California's hate crime tracker isn't super clear.
Thankfully, the California Department of Justice publishes an annual report on Hate Crimes, which does give a bit more clarity. The data I was looking for was on Page 12.
In 2019, there were 36 anti-trans offenses known to the State of California, constituting 2.9% of all hate crimes, and 73.5% of all gender-bias hate crimes. In addition, there was an additional 4 offenses due to being "gender non-conforming."

Colorado was better, and I didn't have to dig through pages.
11 incidents of Gender-Based violence in 2020.
I then used their Table Lookup tool to specify a bit more-10 of those were anti-trans.

On top of that, I was able to specify the type of offense.

Connecticut, meanwhile, sucks. Their most recent data is from 2017, a time period which they only found 1 hate crime based on gender identity (which also made up a full 1% of hate crimes in the state.

Hawaii is also sucky, and I physically cannot link you the raw data, you have to download it yourself. It's only available in excel format. But the AG did give a report on hate crimes in 2020, all of which seem to have been race-motivated.

Illinois, like Hawaii, doesn't allow for raw data access-but they only had 7 incidents of anti-trans hate crimes, so it's not a major problem.

I was also able to find out what kind of crime was most likely-assault first, than battery

Maine's data collection was better, ut they also had none. There were 5 incidents of "Anti-Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender (Mixed Group)" motivated crimes, but without access to the underlying report, I can't exactly find out more.

I had to play around with Nevada's data to get exactly what I wanted-while Gender Identity Bias hate crimes only happened once, I had to dive into the raw data to learn what kind it was. it was anti-transgender.

New Jersey was the hardest one to find, because they're not listed with the general crime stats, and the state doesn't call them "hate crimes." Instead, they're called "bias crimes." But I found it.
For some reason, NJ lists trans people as "other" (page 34), for the 10 incidents against them.

New York gives another report, with 16 incidents.

As far as I can tell, Rhode Island...does not have an official tracker of crime. At all. It's really bad. It's also what took me so long, because...well, I looked hard.

And finally, Washington, with 14 incidents in 2019.

[Lady Victory]

That'd be great, thanks.

okay so
massive caveat
crime data in this country fucking sucks
the FBI's crime data collection is entirely voluntary
for example, on hate crimes, only 2 departments from Alabama chose to even participate at all (and they didn't submit anything)

so with that in mind, the first thing I did was get a state-by-state dive of the 11 states we set as the "gold standard"

Hate Crimes-Bias Motivation: Gender Identity
California: 33
Colorado: 5
Connecticut: 0
Hawaii: 0
Illinois: 0
Maine: 0
Nevada: 2
New Jersey: 8
New York: 16
Washington: 17

but this is
really shitty data
so the next step was doing it through the state agencies
Unfortunately, California's hate crime tracker isn't super clear.
Thankfully, the California Department of Justice publishes an annual report on Hate Crimes, which does give a bit more clarity. The data I was looking for was on Page 12.
In 2019, there were 36 anti-trans offenses known to the State of California, constituting 2.9% of all hate crimes, and 73.5% of all gender-bias hate crimes. In addition, there was an additional 4 offenses due to being "gender non-conforming."

Colorado was better, and I didn't have to dig through pages.
11 incidents of Gender-Based violence in 2020.
I then used their Table Lookup tool to specify a bit more-10 of those were anti-trans.

On top of that, I was able to specify the type of offense.

Connecticut, meanwhile, sucks. Their most recent data is from 2017, a time period which they only found 1 hate crime based on gender identity (which also made up a full 1% of hate crimes in the state.

Hawaii is also sucky, and I physically cannot link you the raw data, you have to download it yourself. It's only available in excel format. But the AG did give a report on hate crimes in 2020, all of which seem to have been race-motivated.

Illinois, like Hawaii, doesn't allow for raw data access-but they only had 7 incidents of anti-trans hate crimes, so it's not a major problem.

I was also able to find out what kind of crime was most likely-assault first, than battery

Maine's data collection was better, ut they also had none. There were 5 incidents of "Anti-Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, or Transgender (Mixed Group)" motivated crimes, but without access to the underlying report, I can't exactly find out more.

I had to play around with Nevada's data to get exactly what I wanted-while Gender Identity Bias hate crimes only happened once, I had to dive into the raw data to learn what kind it was. it was anti-transgender.

New Jersey was the hardest one to find, because they're not listed with the general crime stats, and the state doesn't call them "hate crimes." Instead, they're called "bias crimes." But I found it.
For some reason, NJ lists trans people as "other" (page 34), for the 10 incidents against them.

New York gives another report, with 16 incidents.

As far as I can tell, Rhode Island...does not have an official tracker of crime. At all. It's really bad. It's also what took me so long, because...well, I looked hard.

And finally, Washington, with 14 incidents in 2019.

This was super helpful, thanks.

I was kinda already eyeing Washington State and Colorado even before I realized I was trans as I heard they were pretty nice places to live in general. Kinda disappointing Washington State was one of the higher ranks, tbh.

[Kowani]

snippy

This was super helpful, thanks.

I was kinda already eyeing Washington State and Colorado even before I realized I was trans as I heard they were pretty nice places to live in general. Kinda disappointing Washington State was one of the higher ranks, tbh.

looking at the county level data, the overwhelming majority of them are located in Seattle, so outside of that, you should be more or less alright.

[Lady Victory]

This was super helpful, thanks.

I was kinda already eyeing Washington State and Colorado even before I realized I was trans as I heard they were pretty nice places to live in general. Kinda disappointing Washington State was one of the higher ranks, tbh.

looking at the county level data, the overwhelming majority of them are located in Seattle, so outside of that, you should be more or less alright.

Seattle sucks. Good to know.

[Drew Durrnil]

This was super helpful, thanks.

I was kinda already eyeing Washington State and Colorado even before I realized I was trans as I heard they were pretty nice places to live in general. Kinda disappointing Washington State was one of the higher ranks, tbh.

looking at the county level data, the overwhelming majority of them are located in Seattle, so outside of that, you should be more or less alright.

Do you have any information on attacks per million?

[Zarnicovia nova]

is there ones for just hate crimes for all LGBTQ+ for utah?

[The Rich Port]

forgot to link the wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... ransgender.

This doesn't say anything about "most LGBTQ people are teenagers/underage".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... tates#2021

I can't find that statistic anywhere.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... americans/

While 18-36 are more likely to identify as such, they don't trace anything below that.

Frankly, in my experience young children aren't particularly useful either way since they're probably more likely to straight up just ignore the questionnaire or answer however they want, ignoring the queue, misunderstanding it, etc.

Drawing doodles on it.

[Zarnicovia nova]

forgot to link the wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... ransgender.

This doesn't say anything about "most LGBTQ people are teenagers/underage".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... tates#2021

I can't find that statistic anywhere.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... americans/

While 18-36 are more likely to identify as such, they don't trace anything below that.

Frankly, in my experience young children aren't particularly useful either way since they're probably more likely to straight up just ignore the questionnaire or answer however they want, ignoring the queue, misunderstanding it, etc.

Drawing doodles on it.

[The Rich Port]

This doesn't say anything about "most LGBTQ people are teenagers/underage".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demo ... tates#2021

I can't find that statistic anywhere.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2 ... americans/

While 18-36 are more likely to identify as such, they don't trace anything below that.

Frankly, in my experience young children aren't particularly useful either way since they're probably more likely to straight up just ignore the questionnaire or answer however they want, ignoring the queue, misunderstanding it, etc.

Drawing doodles on it.

What am I supposed to take from this?

I'm confused.

[Zarnicovia nova]

What am I supposed to take from this?

I'm confused.

2 million of 21 million teens are LGBTQ. the wiki says that 4.5% of adults are LGBTQ. oh wait.

given my math that's around 9 million LGBTQ+ adults. and the other sencuss says 2 million LGBTQ teens. (rounding of course)

[The Rich Port]

I know math is hard but yeah, come on

Granted at least you're correct in that people who are younger are more likely to identify as LGBTQ.

Older people have no reason to, don't believe in it even being possible, or choose not to for whatever reason.

[Zarnicovia nova]

I know math is hard but yeah, come on

I know I'm failure /: my mother tells me every day. In get the A- I get my *ss beating.

[Kowani]

looking at the county level data, the overwhelming majority of them are located in Seattle, so outside of that, you should be more or less alright.

Do you have any information on attacks per million?

uhhhhhhhh
for where

is there ones for just hate crimes for all LGBTQ+ for utah?

Page 114

[The Rich Port]

I know math is hard but yeah, come on

I know I'm failure /: my mother tells me every day. In get the A- I get my *ss beating.

Nah it's OK it's not that big of a deal, just remember to double-check yourself in the future

And yeah, your mom sounds like a real drama queen jeez.

It's not my fault I was bad at math and yet still hired at a university department for statistics. Granted I left but voluntarily XD

[Zarnicovia nova]

I know I'm failure /: my mother tells me every day. In get the A- I get my *ss beating.

Nah it's OK it's not that big of a deal, just remember to double-check yourself in the future

And yeah, your mom sounds like a real drama queen jeez.

It's not my fault I was bad at math and yet still hired at a university department for statistics. Granted I left but voluntarily XD

my mom is asian. so you can understand.

[Zarnicovia nova]

Do you have any information on attacks per million?

uhhhhhhhh
for where

is there ones for just hate crimes for all LGBTQ+ for utah?

Page 114

so vandalism. my LGBTQ+ friend has a lot of stuff. (including a gun) so I feel safe.

[The Rich Port]

Nah it's OK it's not that big of a deal, just remember to double-check yourself in the future

And yeah, your mom sounds like a real drama queen jeez.

It's not my fault I was bad at math and yet still hired at a university department for statistics. Granted I left but voluntarily XD

my mom is asian. so you can understand.

Remind her perfection is unattainable, you're only supposed to get as close as possible. A- was your possibility and that's totally ok jeez =3=

[Sincluda]

a very fair position to take

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

I know this will sound crazy, but Utah.
The SLC area is actually very diverse and has a large LGBTQ+ community, which is surprising considering the fact that the state is dominated by Mormons. However, you may get frustrated at bigots in legislative power (although most laws don't pass; the trans school sports ban failed in UT), and just about anywhere outside of SLC sucks diversity-wise. California is a good place for diversity, too.
Edit: SLC means Salt Lake City

[Zarnicovia nova]

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

I know this will sound crazy, but Utah.
The SLC area is actually very diverse and has a large LGBTQ+ community, which is surprising considering the fact that the state is dominated by Mormons. However, you may get frustrated at bigots in legislative power (although most laws don't pass; the trans school sports ban failed in UT), and just about anywhere outside of SLC sucks diversity-wise. California is a good place for diversity, too.

yes the LSC area. just don't go to the stupid idiots in park city and utah county. they're the kind of people to support the war on drugs while snorting crack up there eyes. I really don't like them. the borders have been gerrymandered to be around those areas and unforchantly 2/5s of SLC (1 million) ain't a majority of a state with 3.2 million.

[The Rich Port]

a very fair position to take

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

Sadly Vic darling... If there's one thing I've learned about being a minority in several ways, nowhere is really 100% safe. We must brave the storm and waves.

Keep yourself safe, and make safe places for your loved ones.

It's up to us to make safe havens and pockets of resistance in the world.

I've heard Colorado is pretty liberal.

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

I know this will sound crazy, but Utah.
The SLC area is actually very diverse and has a large LGBTQ+ community, which is surprising considering the fact that the state is dominated by Mormons. However, you may get frustrated at bigots in legislative power (although most laws don't pass; the trans school sports ban failed in UT), and just about anywhere outside of SLC sucks diversity-wise. California is a good place for diversity, too.

You really gotta wonder though just how tolerant they are.

The Mormons are a secretive bunch. Granted, they are so because they've been persecuted, but that's the thing about people who are even marginally conservative: they never learn lessons from history. They're friendly now because they have to, it's the only way to gain more followers, but IMO, once they gain enough power, they'll start abusing their power, if they haven't already, from things I have heard about people trying to leave the church.

The Jehovah's Witnesses for example are ostensibly progressive and have made key strikes in the Civil Rights Movement but their hostile attitudes towards both outsiders and insiders keeps them small, while the LDS church keeps it's influence regional and contained to Utah. Shockingly, I expected there to be more Mormons but somehow they're out-paced by the Witnesses: 16 million+ Mormons vs. 17 million JW's.

[Zarnicovia nova]

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

Sadly Vic darling... If there's one thing I've learned about being a minority in several ways, nowhere is really 100% safe. We must brave the storm and waves.

Keep yourself safe, and make safe places for your loved ones.

It's up to us to make safe havens and pockets of resistance in the world.

I've heard Colorado is pretty liberal.

I know this will sound crazy, but Utah.
The SLC area is actually very diverse and has a large LGBTQ+ community, which is surprising considering the fact that the state is dominated by Mormons. However, you may get frustrated at bigots in legislative power (although most laws don't pass; the trans school sports ban failed in UT), and just about anywhere outside of SLC sucks diversity-wise. California is a good place for diversity, too.

You really gotta wonder though just how tolerant they are.

The Mormons are a secretive bunch. Granted, they are so because they've been persecuted, but that's the thing about people who are even marginally conservative: they never learn lessons from history. They're friendly now because they have to, it's the only way to gain more followers, but IMO, once they gain enough power, they'll start abusing their power, if they haven't already, from things I have heard about people trying to leave the church.

The Jehovah's Witnesses for example are ostensibly progressive and have made key strikes in the Civil Rights Movement but their hostile attitudes towards both outsiders and insiders keeps them small, while the LDS church keeps it's influence regional and contained to Utah. Shockingly, I expected there to be more Mormons but somehow they're out-paced by the Witnesses: 16 million+ Mormons vs. 17 million JW's.

They have abused there power in utah(and possibly in Idaho). And no there not containing them selfs to utah anymore. I went on a trip to Idaho and it seems the Mormons have done the same hostile reintergration of church and state that happened in utah. given Idaho and utah aren't very large and I may(and hopefully) be wrong. They abuses so far have been limited. And some for good. They actively fought back against trump's Muslim ban after a church official said that the Muslim's fight was quote 'similiar to the followers of our great anchestors' and quote 'we must protect them so they do not hold a bad fate.' quote 'we must stand strong as our supporters did' but that was an anomily. on the bad tho. telling there followers to not talk to anyone else. mostly to gain power nothing really other than that.

COLORADO? WTH DO YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN WESTERN COLORADO. IT'S ON THE BORDER WITH UTAH!

[Gongsi]

You wouldn't happen to know where the more trans-friendly areas of the U.S. are, would you?

Sadly Vic darling... If there's one thing I've learned about being a minority in several ways, nowhere is really 100% safe. We must brave the storm and waves.

Keep yourself safe, and make safe places for your loved ones.

It's up to us to make safe havens and pockets of resistance in the world.

I've heard Colorado is pretty liberal.

I know this will sound crazy, but Utah.
The SLC area is actually very diverse and has a large LGBTQ+ community, which is surprising considering the fact that the state is dominated by Mormons. However, you may get frustrated at bigots in legislative power (although most laws don't pass; the trans school sports ban failed in UT), and just about anywhere outside of SLC sucks diversity-wise. California is a good place for diversity, too.

You really gotta wonder though just how tolerant they are.

The Mormons are a secretive bunch. Granted, they are so because they've been persecuted, but that's the thing about people who are even marginally conservative: they never learn lessons from history. They're friendly now because they have to, it's the only way to gain more followers, but IMO, once they gain enough power, they'll start abusing their power, if they haven't already, from things I have heard about people trying to leave the church.

The Jehovah's Witnesses for example are ostensibly progressive and have made key strikes in the Civil Rights Movement but their hostile attitudes towards both outsiders and insiders keeps them small, while the LDS church keeps it's influence regional and contained to Utah. Shockingly, I expected there to be more Mormons but somehow they're out-paced by the Witnesses: 16 million+ Mormons vs. 17 million JW's.

Am Mormon, can confirm. An extremely conservative and xenophobic culture has been brewed in Utah/Idaho(Utah2) Mormonism that spits in the face of its own core principles. Mormons outside of Utah are hit-or-miss, some basically crave becoming part of the Utah conglomerate while others have little to no connection with Utah Mormonism and are some of the most accepting people I know. The key aspects of Mormon doctrine are actually fairly progressive (and there is even a slight tie to full-on socialism imbedded within, believe it or not), but being in a Utah-sized echo chamber has led a large portion of Utah Mormons to become holier-than-thou bigots who do not believe it is in their right to question leadership. From a non-Utah Mormon standpoint it is abhorrent.

I am sure there are also plenty of completely nice Mormons in Utah as well, they just get overshadowed severely. But, as ZN has said above me, they (Utah Mormons) quietly reject the notion of "separation of church and state" and try to culturally and religiously convert any area under their control. Any pockets of social progression within Utah territory I do not expect to last indefinitely. So no, I would say Utah is one of the biggest places to avoid if one is trans.

But again, this mainly pertains to Utah-centric Mormonism, which unfortunately is the most centralized and gets the most publicity. And again, this is from my limited viewpoint and understanding. So I may, in fact, be wrong...

...but from the outside it certainly doesn't seem like I am.

[Zarnicovia nova]

Sadly Vic darling... If there's one thing I've learned about being a minority in several ways, nowhere is really 100% safe. We must brave the storm and waves.

Keep yourself safe, and make safe places for your loved ones.

It's up to us to make safe havens and pockets of resistance in the world.

I've heard Colorado is pretty liberal.



You really gotta wonder though just how tolerant they are.

The Mormons are a secretive bunch. Granted, they are so because they've been persecuted, but that's the thing about people who are even marginally conservative: they never learn lessons from history. They're friendly now because they have to, it's the only way to gain more followers, but IMO, once they gain enough power, they'll start abusing their power, if they haven't already, from things I have heard about people trying to leave the church.

The Jehovah's Witnesses for example are ostensibly progressive and have made key strikes in the Civil Rights Movement but their hostile attitudes towards both outsiders and insiders keeps them small, while the LDS church keeps it's influence regional and contained to Utah. Shockingly, I expected there to be more Mormons but somehow they're out-paced by the Witnesses: 16 million+ Mormons vs. 17 million JW's.

Am Mormon, can confirm. An extremely conservative and xenophobic culture has been brewed in Utah/Idaho(Utah2) Mormonism that spits in the face of its own core principles. Mormons outside of Utah are hit-or-miss, some basically crave becoming part of the Utah conglomerate while others have little to no connection with Utah Mormonism and are some of the most accepting people I know. The key aspects of Mormon doctrine are actually fairly progressive (and there is even a slight tie to full-on socialism imbedded within, believe it or not), but being in a Utah-sized echo chamber has led a large portion of Utah Mormons to become holier-than-thou bigots who do not believe it is in their right to question leadership. From a non-Utah Mormon standpoint it is abhorrent.

I am sure there are also plenty of completely nice Mormons in Utah as well, they just get overshadowed severely. But, as ZN has said above me, they (Utah Mormons) quietly reject the notion of "separation of church and state" and try to culturally and religiously convert any area under their control. Any pockets of social progression within Utah territory I do not expect to last indefinitely. So no, I would say Utah is one of the biggest places to avoid if one is trans.

But again, this mainly pertains to Utah-centric Mormonism, which unfortunately is the most centralized and gets the most publicity. And again, this is from my limited viewpoint and understanding. So I may, in fact, be wrong...

...but from the outside it certainly doesn't seem like I am.

bruh what I have been seeing the Mormon church has lost some control over utah. espenially in the SLC area.

[The Rich Port]

Sadly Vic darling... If there's one thing I've learned about being a minority in several ways, nowhere is really 100% safe. We must brave the storm and waves.

Keep yourself safe, and make safe places for your loved ones.

It's up to us to make safe havens and pockets of resistance in the world.

I've heard Colorado is pretty liberal.



You really gotta wonder though just how tolerant they are.

The Mormons are a secretive bunch. Granted, they are so because they've been persecuted, but that's the thing about people who are even marginally conservative: they never learn lessons from history. They're friendly now because they have to, it's the only way to gain more followers, but IMO, once they gain enough power, they'll start abusing their power, if they haven't already, from things I have heard about people trying to leave the church.

The Jehovah's Witnesses for example are ostensibly progressive and have made key strikes in the Civil Rights Movement but their hostile attitudes towards both outsiders and insiders keeps them small, while the LDS church keeps it's influence regional and contained to Utah. Shockingly, I expected there to be more Mormons but somehow they're out-paced by the Witnesses: 16 million+ Mormons vs. 17 million JW's.

Am Mormon, can confirm. An extremely conservative and xenophobic culture has been brewed in Utah/Idaho(Utah2) Mormonism that spits in the face of its own core principles. Mormons outside of Utah are hit-or-miss, some basically crave becoming part of the Utah conglomerate while others have little to no connection with Utah Mormonism and are some of the most accepting people I know. The key aspects of Mormon doctrine are actually fairly progressive (and there is even a slight tie to full-on socialism imbedded within, believe it or not), but being in a Utah-sized echo chamber has led a large portion of Utah Mormons to become holier-than-thou bigots who do not believe it is in their right to question leadership. From a non-Utah Mormon standpoint it is abhorrent.

I am sure there are also plenty of completely nice Mormons in Utah as well, they just get overshadowed severely. But, as ZN has said above me, they (Utah Mormons) quietly reject the notion of "separation of church and state" and try to culturally and religiously convert any area under their control. Any pockets of social progression within Utah territory I do not expect to last indefinitely. So no, I would say Utah is one of the biggest places to avoid if one is trans.

But again, this mainly pertains to Utah-centric Mormonism, which unfortunately is the most centralized and gets the most publicity. And again, this is from my limited viewpoint and understanding. So I may, in fact, be wrong...

...but from the outside it certainly doesn't seem like I am.

You know it's tragic really, Mormonism is fascinating to me, makes me almost want to convert.

But the irony is that it's this same attitude that almost had them be exterminated by the Protestant United States and keeps them out of most of the Senate today. I feel like having one or two more Mormon senators would be great... But the Republican Party doesn't want them and they only accept Mitt Romney begrudgingly.