Trans Discussion Thread V: Catgirls Don't Need Litterboxes

[Just-An-Illusion]

Love the new profile picture Lady! Is it from that Picrew website?

It is! It's my idea of what I hope to look like when I fully transition. The final product will probably be wildly different, but it's nice to dream.

Yeah it doesn't hurt to dream and I'm sure you're final product will look good ^^

[Neutraligon]

And, Louisiana

A proposal to ban transgender athletes in Louisiana from competing on girls' sports teams in schools will be debated by the full Senate after sailing through the chamber's education committee Thursday without opposition.Sen. Beth Mizell, the Senate's second-ranking Republican, said her bill would “protect girls in sports." She suggested transgender women would have an automatic, built-in advantage.

“Nobody wants to treat anyone with inequity, but there is not an equal situation physically,” Mizell said.

LGBTQ advocates and other opponents called such a ban discriminatory, said it could harm transgender children's mental health and would run afoul of federal anti-discrimination laws. Gov. John Bel Edwards, a Democrat, opposes the bill and other measures targeting transgender youth.

“It perpetuates more unfairness whether it intends to or not,” said Clifton Mixon, a child and adolescent psychologist.

Senate Education Chairman Cleo Fields, a Baton Rouge Democrat, questioned the need for the bill, but didn’t vote in opposition. The only other Democrat on the committee, Sen. Katrina Jackson of Monroe, joined the Republicans in supporting the measure.

Jackson vigorously defended her position as protecting students against an “unfair advantage” that she said transgender females could have.

“I'm going to vote for the bill. I’m going to very transparent. But I don’t want to be called transphobic,” she said.

Conservative lawmakers across the country have pushed similar bills limiting transgender people's participation in sports, and Mizell said 20 states have adopted them so far.

But Mizell acknowledged she couldn't offer an example of a specific problem or situation in Louisiana.

The Louisiana High School Athletic Association, which supports the legislation, already has taken a position that student athletes “shall compete in the gender of their birth certificate unless they have undergone sex reassignment." That prompted Fields to ask whether the bill was even needed to accomplish Mizell's goal.

“This is a bill in search of a problem,” said Melissa Flournoy, with Louisiana Progress, which opposed the bill.

The proposal would require that athletic events and teams sponsored by a school that receives state funding “shall be expressly designated, based upon biological sex,” and it would specifically spell out that athletic teams or sports events “designated for females, girls or women shall not be open to students who are not biologically female.”

Mixon said puberty blockers and other medical treatments can keep transgender women from developing the athletic advantages that supporter of the bill cited. He said athletes have different body types and different genetic backgrounds that can give them advantages.

“We’re overly focused on competitiveness and not humanity,” he said.

Rep. Kirk Talbot, a River Ridge Republican, cited an example in Connecticut where he said two transgender females broke multiple state records in track events. Allowing them to play on women's teams “will most definitely kill women’s sports,” Talbot said.

Advancement of Mizell's bill came a day after another lawmaker, Republican Sen. Mike Fesi of Houma, shelved his proposal to add new restrictions on transgender youth access to medical care and counseling. Fesi faced widespread opposition and claims that the measure was discriminatory.

Edwards and others worry that proposals to add transgender restrictions could bring economic damage to the state, chasing away events like the NCAA’s Final Four basketball tournament scheduled for New Orleans in 2022. The NCAA has declared its support for transgender student athletes and said it will choose locations for its championships where hosts commit to an environment “free of discrimination.”


The bill is filed as Senate Bill 156.

You know, I wonder if this falls into the sex discrimination since it is targeted at only AMAB.

[Kowani]

And, Louisiana

A proposal to ban transgender athletes in Louisiana from competing on girls' sports teams in schools will be debated by the full Senate after sailing through the chamber's education committee Thursday without opposition.Sen. Beth Mizell, the Senate's second-ranking Republican, said her bill would “protect girls in sports." She suggested transgender women would have an automatic, built-in advantage.

“Nobody wants to treat anyone with inequity, but there is not an equal situation physically,” Mizell said.

LGBTQ advocates and other opponents called such a ban discriminatory, said it could harm transgender children's mental health and would run afoul of federal anti-discrimination laws. Gov. John Bel Edwards, a Democrat, opposes the bill and other measures targeting transgender youth.

“It perpetuates more unfairness whether it intends to or not,” said Clifton Mixon, a child and adolescent psychologist.

Senate Education Chairman Cleo Fields, a Baton Rouge Democrat, questioned the need for the bill, but didn’t vote in opposition. The only other Democrat on the committee, Sen. Katrina Jackson of Monroe, joined the Republicans in supporting the measure.

Jackson vigorously defended her position as protecting students against an “unfair advantage” that she said transgender females could have.

“I'm going to vote for the bill. I’m going to very transparent. But I don’t want to be called transphobic,” she said.

Conservative lawmakers across the country have pushed similar bills limiting transgender people's participation in sports, and Mizell said 20 states have adopted them so far.

But Mizell acknowledged she couldn't offer an example of a specific problem or situation in Louisiana.

The Louisiana High School Athletic Association, which supports the legislation, already has taken a position that student athletes “shall compete in the gender of their birth certificate unless they have undergone sex reassignment." That prompted Fields to ask whether the bill was even needed to accomplish Mizell's goal.

“This is a bill in search of a problem,” said Melissa Flournoy, with Louisiana Progress, which opposed the bill.

The proposal would require that athletic events and teams sponsored by a school that receives state funding “shall be expressly designated, based upon biological sex,” and it would specifically spell out that athletic teams or sports events “designated for females, girls or women shall not be open to students who are not biologically female.”

Mixon said puberty blockers and other medical treatments can keep transgender women from developing the athletic advantages that supporter of the bill cited. He said athletes have different body types and different genetic backgrounds that can give them advantages.

“We’re overly focused on competitiveness and not humanity,” he said.

Rep. Kirk Talbot, a River Ridge Republican, cited an example in Connecticut where he said two transgender females broke multiple state records in track events. Allowing them to play on women's teams “will most definitely kill women’s sports,” Talbot said.

Advancement of Mizell's bill came a day after another lawmaker, Republican Sen. Mike Fesi of Houma, shelved his proposal to add new restrictions on transgender youth access to medical care and counseling. Fesi faced widespread opposition and claims that the measure was discriminatory.

Edwards and others worry that proposals to add transgender restrictions could bring economic damage to the state, chasing away events like the NCAA’s Final Four basketball tournament scheduled for New Orleans in 2022. The NCAA has declared its support for transgender student athletes and said it will choose locations for its championships where hosts commit to an environment “free of discrimination.”


The bill is filed as Senate Bill 156.

You know, I wonder if this falls into the sex discrimination since it is targeted at only AMAB.

probably, yes
but that's easy enough to amend for them, so it is, at best, a delay

[Neu California]

Elliot Page on Oprah Winfrey: Transition surgery 'life-saving'

For those who don't know, Page (dead name: Ellen Page, provided for convenience) was the main character in the 2009 movie Juno.

[North Washington Republic]

Elliot Page on Oprah Winfrey: Transition surgery 'life-saving'

For those who don't know, Page (dead name: Ellen Page, provided for convenience) was the main character in the 2009 movie Juno.

I’m glad he is happy with himself.

By the way, it isn’t a good idea to dead name Trans people, even for convenience...

[Dumb Ideologies]

Elliot Page on Oprah Winfrey: Transition surgery 'life-saving'

For those who don't know, Page (dead name: Ellen Page, provided for convenience) was the main character in the 2009 movie Juno.

I’m glad he is happy with himself.

By the way, it isn’t a good idea to dead name Trans people, even for convenience...

Just post the virgin meme and say "this but real life" and everyone will know who you're talking about

[North Washington Republic]

Jenner: No to 'Biological Boys Who Are Trans' Playing on Girls' Teams

Well, it looks like Caitlyn Jenner is no better than Blair White. I maybe be a cisgender male, but I’m sadden to see all these transphobic trans people.

[The Democratic Republic of Aliens]

GENDER IS MERELY A TRIFLING HUMAN CONCEPT. YOU. ALL. SHALL. TRANSCEND! AND TO LET GO OF YOUR INSIGNIFICANT COPULATION PARTS

[Starblaydia]

GENDER IS MERELY A TRIFLING HUMAN CONCEPT. YOU. ALL. SHALL. TRANSCEND! AND TO LET GO OF YOUR INSIGNIFICANT COPULATION PARTS

You have been told already that topics in General are out of character debate topics. Knock it off.

[Grenartia]

Jenner: No to 'Biological Boys Who Are Trans' Playing on Girls' Teams

Well, it looks like Caitlyn Jenner is no better than Blair White. I maybe be a cisgender male, but I’m sadden to see all these transphobic trans people.

And the reactionaries are going to take this and run with it.

[Lady Victory]

Jenner: No to 'Biological Boys Who Are Trans' Playing on Girls' Teams

Well, it looks like Caitlyn Jenner is no better than Blair White. I maybe be a cisgender male, but I’m sadden to see all these transphobic trans people.

This may be a controversial take but I've always been skeptical of Jenner's transitioning. For some reason it never really struck me as being 'genuine' and more like a last-ditch effort to remain relevant. She's even more famous now than she ever was before coming out, and having both fame and wealth can ruin people and Jenner's never been shy toward publicity.

I realize there are a few issues with putting doubt in someone's claim of being a transgender, especially now that I realize I am one myself, but it still strikes me as odd and I can't shake the feeling she's just doing it for all the attention it brings. It just seems suspicious to me. I've never questioned anyone's claim of being transgender other than Jenner's. I admit it feels kind of wrong to do so, especially now after coming out myself. I know I wouldn't want my identity being called into question.

But maybe I'm just being overly critical because I don't like Jenner as a person and definitely don't like her being the new 'face' of trans people for that reason. Idk.

[Suriyanakhon]

Jenner: No to 'Biological Boys Who Are Trans' Playing on Girls' Teams

Well, it looks like Caitlyn Jenner is no better than Blair White. I maybe be a cisgender male, but I’m sadden to see all these transphobic trans people.

This may be a controversial take but I've always been skeptical of Jenner's transitioning. For some reason it never really struck me as being 'genuine' and more like a last-ditch effort to remain relevant. She's even more famous now than she ever was before coming out, and having both fame and wealth can ruin people and Jenner's never been shy toward publicity.

I have a hard time believing that a cis dude would be fine with going around being a woman for around 5 years tbh. That seems like it would trigger reverse dysphoria.

But that aside, Jenner is an awful person and she should really go back to being irrelevant.

[Auzkhia]

Jenner: No to 'Biological Boys Who Are Trans' Playing on Girls' Teams

Well, it looks like Caitlyn Jenner is no better than Blaire White. I maybe be a cisgender male, but I’m sadden to see all these transphobic trans people.

What's even worse is that it contradicts something she's said before, her first flip-flop. It's craven yet typical.

[Ifreann]

This may be a controversial take but I've always been skeptical of Jenner's transitioning. For some reason it never really struck me as being 'genuine' and more like a last-ditch effort to remain relevant. She's even more famous now than she ever was before coming out, and having both fame and wealth can ruin people and Jenner's never been shy toward publicity.

I have a hard time believing that a cis dude would be fine with going around being a woman for around 5 years tbh. That seems like it would trigger reverse dysphoria.

But that aside, Jenner is an awful person and she should really go back to being irrelevant.

And stay off the roads while she's at it.

[Suriyanakhon]

Always love when wealthy or heteronormative trans people support legislation which screw the rest of us over because they'll never have to feel the repercussions themselves. /s

[Lady Victory]

This may be a controversial take but I've always been skeptical of Jenner's transitioning. For some reason it never really struck me as being 'genuine' and more like a last-ditch effort to remain relevant. She's even more famous now than she ever was before coming out, and having both fame and wealth can ruin people and Jenner's never been shy toward publicity.

I have a hard time believing that a cis dude would be fine with going around being a woman for around 5 years tbh. That seems like it would trigger reverse dysphoria.

But that aside, Jenner is an awful person and she should really go back to being irrelevant.

A good point, actually.

[Dumb Ideologies]

There is no intrinsic reason why Caitlyn Jenner should have a particular view on the question of transgender participation in sports, or to believe that she is less "real" for not doing so. She is not being hypocritical - she obviously competed in the male category herself. There is not a "team transgender" whereby transgender people, in order to receive their transgender card of authenticity, must sign a piece of paper promising to uphold certain values and to dedicate themselves solely to promoting the interests of other transgender people to the exclusion of pre-existing affiliations and other ideological considerations. If she has concerns that transgender girls will be advantaged in sport - and, while the extreme fears that are underpinning much of the recent discourse where cisgirls are depicted as in danger due to the excessive brute strength of transgirls are quite ridiculous, there is very little information on whether transgender girls would cluster towards the highest end of the range of female sporting ability in a way that would suggest a systemic advantage - then she is entitled to prioritise that concern above a general concern for advancing other trans people. Youth sport in the United States seems to be an unusually big deal in terms of status and reward, and so it is understandable that people are cautious about consequences.

[Riviere Renard]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

[Grenartia]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

The UK is infamous for being TERF Island, and they've been exporting that shit over here. Its just a matter of time before they move on to exporting it to Canada, too.

[Riviere Renard]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

The UK is infamous for being TERF Island, and they've been exporting that shit over here. Its just a matter of time before they move on to exporting it to Canada, too.

I'm not going to deny that, but, considering all major party leaders march in pride parades these days, it would be a very hard sell, unless Derek Sloan or Leslyn Lewis became Conservative leader.

Honestly, the vast majority of anti-trans opinions I've seen on Canadian political spaces come from Americans who 'wish the best for Canada'. Transphobia and Queerphobia is much, much less popular here than in the US or the UK. I'm not saying its impossible or even unlikely that it becomes mainstream, but it would certainly be much more difficult here. I think I read somewhere that the majority of Albertans supported Hillary Clinton in 2016, so that tells you a lot about Canadian politics.

Conservatives in Canada have a hard time when it comes to reverting progress. One of the biggest controversies with Adrew Scheer was that he was personally against abortion (though not policy wise), and voted against nation-wide gay marriage in 2005. Historically, from what I can recall, Canada's Conservatives appose new Liberal policies, but never try to revert old ones. Harper refused to shrink universal healthcare, refused to legislate on abortion, and refused to undo gay marriage when he was elected in 2006. Andrew Scheer did the same in 2019. Erin O'Toole has tried his best look like an LGBT ally. Leslyn Lewis, Derek Sloan, and Maxime Bernier are the only ones I know about who are confident enough to be openly anti-LGBT, and they failed badly because of it (amongst other things) (Derek Sloan, if I recall, has recently been evicted from the Party). While I don't want be over-confident, it would take a lot of work to have anti-LGBT opinions gain support in Canada, when we pride ourselves on our inclusiveness. Certainly, we could improve, and many people oppose that because it takes things 'too far', but most Canadians, even Conservatives, are very opposed to anything that can be perceived as anti-LGBT.

On the other hand, I'm afraid there has been a trend of the 'Americanization' of our politics. It hasn't been too effective yet, but who knows...

[USS Monitor]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

Yeah, it really is kind of nuts. The issue's been around for ages, but it used to be a very niche thing that most people didn't think about too much. Now all of a sudden people are making a huge thing about it because the GOP cultural grievance machine needs another axe to grind.

[Galloism]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

Yeah, it really is kind of nuts. The issue's been around for ages, but it used to be a very niche thing that most people didn't think about too much. Now all of a sudden people are making a huge thing about it because the GOP cultural grievance machine needs another axe to grind.

Tempest in a teacup is the term you're looking for.

[Kowani]

All of this discourse over trans people in sports has me confused. In Canada, I have never heard it being discussed. I don't remember any politician saying it would be a good idea to ban trans people from school sports (although my knowledge of other province's politics in poor, and I wasn't paying much attention before 2015). Its not something politicians consider, except maybe those People's Party like fringes on the Conservative Party's right. But in the United States, it seems to be a big thing, if not front and centre. Trans rights in general aren't issues in Canada, which is both a good and bad thing. We aren't being pushed backwards by radicals, but we haven't made much progress either.

In this aspect, the discussion around trans people in the United States is very foreign to me, because people from the United States view trans people fundamentally different than Canadians do, and, as such, it makes me feel almost European, y'know?

Yeah, it really is kind of nuts. The issue's been around for ages, but it used to be a very niche thing that most people didn't think about too much. Now all of a sudden people are making a huge thing about it because the GOP cultural grievance machine needs another axe to grind.

bingo

Of the 22 states that introduced legislation this year to ban healthcare for transgender youth, several introduced multiple bills with a range of harmful impacts. Prior to 2020, not a single state had introduced legislation to ban this medical care.

it's the latest front in the culture wars
it's very good among the base
does it play well outside of that
...well, not sure, but my money's on no

[Lady Victory]

The UK is infamous for being TERF Island, and they've been exporting that shit over here. Its just a matter of time before they move on to exporting it to Canada, too.

I'm not going to deny that, but, considering all major party leaders march in pride parades these days, it would be a very hard sell, unless Derek Sloan or Leslyn Lewis became Conservative leader.

Honestly, the vast majority of anti-trans opinions I've seen on Canadian political spaces come from Americans who 'wish the best for Canada'. Transphobia and Queerphobia is much, much less popular here than in the US or the UK. I'm not saying its impossible or even unlikely that it becomes mainstream, but it would certainly be much more difficult here. I think I read somewhere that the majority of Albertans supported Hillary Clinton in 2016, so that tells you a lot about Canadian politics.

Conservatives in Canada have a hard time when it comes to reverting progress. One of the biggest controversies with Adrew Scheer was that he was personally against abortion (though not policy wise), and voted against nation-wide gay marriage in 2005. Historically, from what I can recall, Canada's Conservatives appose new Liberal policies, but never try to revert old ones. Harper refused to shrink universal healthcare, refused to legislate on abortion, and refused to undo gay marriage when he was elected in 2006. Andrew Scheer did the same in 2019. Erin O'Toole has tried his best look like an LGBT ally. Leslyn Lewis, Derek Sloan, and Maxime Bernier are the only ones I know about who are confident enough to be openly anti-LGBT, and they failed badly because of it (amongst other things) (Derek Sloan, if I recall, has recently been evicted from the Party). While I don't want be over-confident, it would take a lot of work to have anti-LGBT opinions gain support in Canada, when we pride ourselves on our inclusiveness. Certainly, we could improve, and many people oppose that because it takes things 'too far', but most Canadians, even Conservatives, are very opposed to anything that can be perceived as anti-LGBT.

On the other hand, I'm afraid there has been a trend of the 'Americanization' of our politics. It hasn't been too effective yet, but who knows...

Damn, just another thing in the laundry list of things that Canada's better at than the U.S.

Personally I hope the opposite effect occurs: that the U.S. becomes more Canadianized. I won't pretend that Canada is a perfect country but you guys seem to be doing things better than us in just about every possible way, so...

[Arcturus Novus]

Damn, just another thing in the laundry list of things that Canada's better at than the U.S.

Personally I hope the opposite effect occurs: that the U.S. becomes more Canadianized. I won't pretend that Canada is a perfect country but you guys seem to be doing things better than us in just about every possible way, so...

If America sold all-dressed chips everywhere then Canada would be rendered obsolete.