French Politics Thread I: Borne to be wild

[The United Penguin Commonwealth]

Can someone explain to me why so many people hate the EU?

Because the leftist, globalist, progressive EU administration, thinks and acts like it is the united states of Europe, not as a union of European nations.

even if that was true, why is this bad?

[Greater Miami Shores 3]

Because the leftist, globalist, progressive EU administration, thinks and acts like it is the united states of Europe, not as a union of European nations.

even if that was true, why is this bad?

It's not bad according to your leftist views, it is bad according to our right wing views, we all have the same goals, but we think differently on the same issues. If right wing Marine Le Pen, were to pull a political upset and win the French Presidential election, the leftist, globalist, EU administration would be on her from day one on all leftist issues. Like they are on Prime Minister Viktor Orbán of Hungary, Poland and the The Visegrád nations, threatening to withhold funds and withholding funds, unless they practice leftist views on the issues, while charging them with being undemocratic, its called politics, this is how politics works.

All these leftist leaders and the EU administration leaders, with center, center right, center left, promise them anything and everything now for their votes, Emmanuel Macron, are political hypocrites, they all have economic, political, cultural and tourist, diplomatic relations with Russia and Vladimir Putin, before and during the war with Ukraine, despite the war sanctions, while the criticize and charge Marine Le Pen, and Viktor Orbán for being Pro Russia and Pro Putin.

Chancellor of Germany Angela Merkle, negotiated an oil and gas deal with Putin, making Germany more dependent on Russian oil and natural gas.
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The Guardian, Leaders of Germany, Spain and Portugal urge French to vote Macron.

The leaders of Germany, Spain and Portugal have publicly backed Emmanuel Macron in Sunday’s French presidential election runoff, calling on French voters to support “freedom, democracy and a stronger Europe” – and taking a swipe at Brexit.

In a highly unusual intervention in another country’s election, Olaf Scholz, Pedro Sánchez and António Costa said in an op-ed column in the leading French daily Le Monde that France’s second-round vote was “for us, not an election like any other”.

Although they did not mention Macron or his far-right rival Marine Le Pen by name, the centre-left German chancellor and Spanish and Portuguese prime ministers said they “hoped” the incumbent’s vision of “France, Europe and the world” would win.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... gal-le-pen
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Russia and France to strengthen economic cooperation Published 12 months ago on May 3, 2021.

On April 29, Russian President Vladimir Putin held videoconference with leaders of several French companies-members of the Franco-Russian Chamber of Commerce and Industry (CCI France-Russia) to discuss some aspects of Russian-French trade, economic and investment cooperation, including the implementation of large joint projects as well as the prospects for collaborative work.

Putin noted that the Economic Council of the Franco-Russian Chamber of Commerce and Industry is still operational in spite of difficulties, and the late April meeting was the fourth time since 2016. From the historical records, France has been and remains a key economic partner for Russia, holding a high but not sufficiently high, 6th place among EU countries in the amount of accumulated investment in the Russian economy and 5th place in the volume of trade.

Despite a certain decline in mutual trade in 2020 (it went down by 14 percent compared to 2019) the ultimate figure is quite acceptable at $13 billion. French investment in Russia is hovering around $17 billion, while Russian investment in France is $3 billion.

Over 500 companies with French capital are operating in various sectors of the Russian economy. French business features especially prominently in the Russian fuel and energy complex, automobile manufacturing and, of course, the food industry. “It could have been more if the French regulatory and state authorities treated Russian businesses as Russia is treating French businesses. We appreciate that in a difficult economic environment, French companies operating in Russia have not reduced their activity,” Putin pointed out.

https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2021/05/03/r ... operation/
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Let it never be said again, GMS does not provide links, lol.

[Kilobugya]

Some really positive and somewhat unexpected news on French politics : for the upcoming legislative elections (were we'll elect the Assemblée Nationale) of the 5th and 12th of June, the whole left will stand united in the "Nouvelle Union populaire écologique et sociale" ("New social and ecological Popular Unity") that will very likely include LFI (Mélenchon), EELV (Greens, Jadot), PCF, PS and even NPA and many other small parties (like Generations, Ensemble, ...).

This broad left coalition will stand on a clearly leftist program : retirement at 60, increase of minimal wage, ecological transition, price control on energy and food, ... and is polling at 34%, 10 points ahead of Macron's LREM (24%) who is tied with Le Pen's RN (24%). The voting system (two rounds majority vote on 577 districts, with complex rules on how candidates can stay on the second round or not) makes it hard to predict the outcome from such a national poll, but for the first time in many years there is a real hope of a left-wing majority in France, on clearly leftist agenda.

[Michel Meilleur]

Some really positive and somewhat unexpected news on French politics : for the upcoming legislative elections (were we'll elect the Assemblée Nationale) of the 5th and 12th of June, the whole left will stand united in the "Nouvelle Union populaire écologique et sociale" ("New social and ecological Popular Unity") that will very likely include LFI (Mélenchon), EELV (Greens, Jadot), PCF, PS and even NPA and many other small parties (like Generations, Ensemble, ...).

This broad left coalition will stand on a clearly leftist program : retirement at 60, increase of minimal wage, ecological transition, price control on energy and food, ... and is polling at 34%, 10 points ahead of Macron's LREM (24%) who is tied with Le Pen's RN (24%). The voting system (two rounds majority vote on 577 districts, with complex rules on how candidates can stay on the second round or not) makes it hard to predict the outcome from such a national poll, but for the first time in many years there is a real hope of a left-wing majority in France, on clearly leftist agenda.

Let's just hope that Mélenchon's ego won't get in the way of this pseudo Front Populaire.
If he manages to keeps himself in check rather than try to LARP as Jaurès, we might actually see Macron unable to go full Tatcherite now that he knows he doesn't need to worry about being re-elected.

[Kilobugya]

Let's just hope that Mélenchon's ego won't get in the way of this pseudo Front Populaire.

Why "pseudo" ? It's very similar to Front Populaire on many aspects.

But that aside, the best outcome in my view would be for UP to win the absolute majority, but for LFI to need the support of the other groups (especially PCF and EELV, but sure, that means PS too) in order to hold a majority, ensuring there is some limits to his ability to wield Macron-like semi-absolute power.

[Meadowfields]

I've heard of almost all the parties in the Nouvelle Union Populaire écologiste et sociale except for the deep ecologist Révolution écologique pour le vivant, it seems like a particularly new one.

[Kilobugya]

I've heard of almost all the parties in the Nouvelle Union Populaire écologiste et sociale except for the deep ecologist Révolution écologique pour le vivant, it seems like a particularly new one.

That's a very very small party for radical vegans, I don't like them much, but they don't have any significant weight so... not much of a concern. But please note that the deals are still being finalized, and more parties will likely join.

[Haganham]

Because the leftist, globalist, progressive EU administration, thinks and acts like it is the united states of Europe, not as a union of European nations.

even if that was true, why is this bad?

Well for one thing it is not what the people of Europe signed up for, for another the EU is less accountable to the public then a given national government, which means that expanding EU power means a less democratic Europe.

[Kilobugya]

Well for one thing it is not what the people of Europe signed up for

Well, they didn't actually sign up for the EU we have now... like, remember the referendum in France and Netherlands of 2005 ? Or how many times Ireland did have to "revote" until they vote yes ?

for another the EU is less accountable to the public then a given national government, which means that expanding EU power means a less democratic Europe.

That's kinda true, yes. But one solution is to that is to make the EU more democratic, which is what most of the "federalists" push for. I'm not one of them, but you can't accuse them of wanting less democracy because they want to extend EU powers when they want to make the EU more democratic at the same time.

[Michel Meilleur]

Let's just hope that Mélenchon's ego won't get in the way of this pseudo Front Populaire.

Why "pseudo" ? It's very similar to Front Populaire on many aspects.

But that aside, the best outcome in my view would be for UP to win the absolute majority, but for LFI to need the support of the other groups (especially PCF and EELV, but sure, that means PS too) in order to hold a majority, ensuring there is some limits to his ability to wield Macron-like semi-absolute power.

The Front Populaire had quite a bit more prestance and backbone than this coalition formed mostly on petit-bourgeois socio-liberalism, but I suppose it's easier for great men to do great things when odds and situation are much more stacked against them.

Leaving that aside, I think an absolute majority is quite unlikely, but the stronger and more united the opposition to M. Start-up Nation, the easier it will be to stop him from stealing peoples' allocations.

[Haganham]

Well for one thing it is not what the people of Europe signed up for

Well, they didn't actually sign up for the EU we have now... like, remember the referendum in France and Netherlands of 2005 ? Or how many times Ireland did have to "revote" until they vote yes ?

for another the EU is less accountable to the public then a given national government, which means that expanding EU power means a less democratic Europe.

That's kinda true, yes. But one solution is to that is to make the EU more democratic, which is what most of the "federalists" push for. I'm not one of them, but you can't accuse them of wanting less democracy because they want to extend EU powers when they want to make the EU more democratic at the same time.

Even if you made the EU a direct democracy it would still be less democratic then most nations in it, purely by virtue of the lack of devolution to local... or at this scale, national governments.

[Kilobugya]

The Front Populaire had quite a bit more prestance and backbone than this coalition formed mostly on petit-bourgeois socio-liberalism,

Léon Blum and the rest of SFIO was pretty much "petit-bourgeois socio-liberalism". If not from PCF and most importantly unions pushing them hard (especially with the strikes) they wouldn't have done that much, but sure it gave them the opportunity to push.

[Michel Meilleur]

The Front Populaire had quite a bit more prestance and backbone than this coalition formed mostly on petit-bourgeois socio-liberalism,

Léon Blum and the rest of SFIO was pretty much "petit-bourgeois socio-liberalism". If not from PCF and most importantly unions pushing them hard (especially with the strikes) they wouldn't have done that much, but sure it gave them the opportunity to push.

Damn mate, wouldn't have expected you to dab so hard on the SFIO. At least the lads wanted to send the boys go take a walk in Spain to say hello to the Italians before the Perfidious Albion betrayed us yet again. I don't think that this new coalition is as eager to do the same in Ukraine.

[Kilobugya]

Damn mate, wouldn't have expected you to dab so hard on the SFIO. At least the lads wanted to send the boys go take a walk in Spain to say hello to the Italians before the Perfidious Albion betrayed us yet again. I don't think that this new coalition is as eager to do the same in Ukraine.

PCF sent people to fight in Spain (in the "Brigades Internationales"). Léon Blum even refused to send planes and ammunition to the Spanish Republic.

[Michel Meilleur]

Damn mate, wouldn't have expected you to dab so hard on the SFIO. At least the lads wanted to send the boys go take a walk in Spain to say hello to the Italians before the Perfidious Albion betrayed us yet again. I don't think that this new coalition is as eager to do the same in Ukraine.

PCF sent people to fight in Spain (in the "Brigades Internationales"). Léon Blum even refused to send planes and ammunition to the Spanish Republic.

That's to be blamed on the Anglos and the Spanish anarchists. Jaurès was ready for a good and proper intervention, just like the Italians were doing winning the war for the Nationalists, but the later couldn't stop themselves from raping nuns and killing priests which gave the former a good enough reason to pathologicaly cave to the Germans again.

Was there much he could do but tow the British non-intervention line when they were speaking of breaking treaties over it at a time the funny mustached Austrian was getting all crazy on the other side of the Rhine?

[Kilobugya]

Jaurès was ready for a good and proper intervention,

Jaurès ? During the Front Populaire ? I didn't know deads could come back. Jaurès was murdered in 1914 and Front Populaire was in 1936.

[Michel Meilleur]

Jaurès was ready for a good and proper intervention,

Jaurès ? During the Front Populaire ? I didn't know deads could come back. Jaurès was murdered in 1914 and Front Populaire was in 1936.

Ah fréro, forgive a man for confusing two public schools' names, it could have been Mitterand just as well.
The rest of the point still stand, you're being a bit too harsh on the SFIO for having to submit to British demands while supporting a bit too much the PCF whose volunteers were cheering Stalinists while they were having fun purging in the middle of a civil war.

[Meadowfields]

PCF has now joined the Nouvelle Union Populaire écologiste et sociale.

[Big Bad Blue]

Cre nom de Zeus, Macron won.

[Kilobugya]

PCF has now joined the Nouvelle Union Populaire écologiste et sociale.

That's a very good news indeed.

[Kilobugya]

Cre nom de Zeus, Macron won.

You're lagging a bit, but it's okay Macron won the presidential election, but with the union of the left ("NUPES") the left now has a chance to deny him a majority in the Assembly, making him unable to push his policies. The government must be approved by the Assembly, so if the left has a majority in it, we'll have a left-wing government. It's done yet, and legislative elections are very hard to predict, but there is a light of hope !

[Ariddia]

Some really positive and somewhat unexpected news on French politics : for the upcoming legislative elections (were we'll elect the Assemblée Nationale) of the 5th and 12th of June, the whole left will stand united in the "Nouvelle Union populaire écologique et sociale" ("New social and ecological Popular Unity") that will very likely include LFI (Mélenchon), EELV (Greens, Jadot), PCF, PS and even NPA and many other small parties (like Generations, Ensemble, ...).

This broad left coalition will stand on a clearly leftist program : retirement at 60, increase of minimal wage, ecological transition, price control on energy and food, ... and is polling at 34%, 10 points ahead of Macron's LREM (24%) who is tied with Le Pen's RN (24%). The voting system (two rounds majority vote on 577 districts, with complex rules on how candidates can stay on the second round or not) makes it hard to predict the outcome from such a national poll, but for the first time in many years there is a real hope of a left-wing majority in France, on clearly leftist agenda.

"Positive and unexpected" are the right words, yes! At last, the parties of the left have understood that the priority is to focus on what they have in common, so as to be able to govern. And to deny President Macron the possibility to do whatever damage he wants during the next five years.

I'm not going to get my hopes up too much, but... It's good to have something to feel positive and a bit hopeful about, for once.

[Ariddia]

I've heard of almost all the parties in the Nouvelle Union Populaire écologiste et sociale except for the deep ecologist Révolution écologique pour le vivant, it seems like a particularly new one.

The REV's ideas correspond to what an ideal society should be, in terms of human well-being and respect for animals' fundamental interests. You can read their proposals here (in French). But they're much too far in advance of what people are willing to accept, as they would imply deep transformations of many aspects of society. In short, they're utopian and currently unrealistic.

I suppose it's good that those ideas are out there in the public debate, but they don't equate to immediate practical measures which are needed for realistic gradual change.

I wish Aymeric Caron well in the constituency he's the NUPES candidate in, but he has absolutely no hope of winning it.

[Meadowfields]

I just noticed, adding up Mélenchon and Jadot's votes together gives me 9,340,373 votes, more than Le Pen's. Also adding up Roussel's gives me 10,142,795 votes, more than Macron's. Also adding up Hidalgo's and Poutou's gives me 11,028,177. I excluded Arthaud because her party says they won't join the coalition.

[Kilobugya]

I just noticed, adding up Mélenchon and Jadot's votes together gives me 9,340,373 votes, more than Le Pen's. Also adding up Roussel's gives me 10,142,795 votes, more than Macron's. Also adding up Hidalgo's and Poutou's gives me 11,028,177. I excluded Arthaud because her party says they won't join the coalition.

Yes, the total of left came first, and the UNPES is polling around 10 above its competitors. But it's very hard to predict the outcome, first because turnout is usually much lower in legislative elections, because of the complicated polling systems, and the uncertainty about strategy from the rest (ie, will LR and LREM somewhat ally? will Zemmour fill candidates against Le Pen? Will LREM withdraw candidates to block Le Pen or not?)