French Politics Thread I: Borne to be wild

[Kilobugya]

Pecresse could be the only person who gives the Jupiter president a run for his money

Perhaps, but she's almost a carbon-copy of him in most important issues, just more conservatives on societal issues (she participated in the protests again gay marriage with all the fundamentalists), so it won't be a change for the better.

[Ariddia]

I'm disappointed (though sadly not surprised) by Mélenchon's support for the protests against the vaccine pass. "Freedom" isn't an absolute: When people lose sight of their basic civic responsibility not to put other people's health and life in danger, they should be reminded of it, rather than encouraged in their selfishness.

I say this as someone who commutes to work by public transport and is getting increasingly murderous urges to smash the nose of selfish bastards and bitches who don't wear their mask (or don't wear it properly) on the train.

I'll be voting for Hélène Thouy (Animalist Party) if she receives enough mayoral endorsements to be allowed to stand as a candidate. She won't win, of course, but the more votes she receives, the more the other candidates will see that taking action against cruelty to animals can be a vote-winner.

If she's not allowed to be a candidate, I think I'll either vote blank (which I've never done so far in the first round of an election) or else for Yannick Jadot, without much enthusiasm.

I'll admit Fabien Roussel has perked my interest, by wanting to be the candidate of the traditional, sensible left: in tune with the priorities of working people, rejecting woke nonsense. I also think (reluctantly) that he's probably right to say nuclear energy must remain a key component of French energy production for the foreseeable future, because the transition to low-carbon alternatives is complicated and can't be fully achieved quickly. On the other hand, his apparently complete disregard for issues of animal wellbeing means that I can't vote for him.

As for Hidalgo, Taubira, Arthaud and Poutou, I simply can't see the point of their candidacies (and Poutou's party is an absurdity).

[Shrillland]

Bouches-du-Rhône Senator and Marseilles Municipal Councillor Stephane Ravier(RN's only Senator) has endorsed Zemmour over Le Pen

I'm calling it now: Macron vs. Zemmour for the runoff and Macron will end up winning.

[Ariddia]

I'm calling it now: Macron vs. Zemmour for the runoff and Macron will end up winning.

In that configuration, Macron would definitely win. Most people, I think, are well aware that Zemmour is a pathological liar and hate-stirrer with no real solutions to offer. It would be interesting, though, to see the level of abstention: the level of disengagement from politics as voters are faced with yet another unpalatable (or, at the very least, uninspiring) choice.

I voted Chirac in the second round in 2002 to help keep the far right down, and Macron in the second round in 2017 for the same reason. This time, if Macron were up against Zemmour or Le Pen, I would look at the polls. If the gap between him and his opponent were ten points or fewer, I would vote Macron for safety's sake, and because I don't want the far right at 45% (!). If he were leading by more than ten points, though, I may vote blank.

If the second round is Macron v Pécresse, I'll vote blank. I don't want to endorse either of them.

By the way, yesterday I became a member of the Animalist Party. It's the first time I've been a member of a political party. It doesn't look as if Thouy will be allowed to stand as candidate for president, but maybe I'll be able to help a bit during the campaign for the parliamentary elections.

[Kilobugya]

I'm disappointed (though sadly not surprised) by Mélenchon's support for the protests against the vaccine pass. "Freedom" isn't an absolute: When people lose sight of their basic civic responsibility not to put other people's health and life in danger, they should be reminded of it, rather than encouraged in their selfishness.

Mélenchon has been really disastrous in how he handled everything related to the pandemics, that's part of why I can't vote for him again this time.

I say this as someone who commutes to work by public transport and is getting increasingly murderous urges to smash the nose of selfish bastards and bitches who don't wear their mask (or don't wear it properly) on the train.

I'm not yet to the point of "murderous urges" but else I agree with the feeling.

I'll be voting for Hélène Thouy (Animalist Party) if she receives enough mayoral endorsements to be allowed to stand as a candidate. She won't win, of course, but the more votes she receives, the more the other candidates will see that taking action against cruelty to animals can be a vote-winner.

I really dislike single-issue parties, whatever the issue is (same problem I had with "pirate party", even if I mostly agree with them). It's not really honest to run in an election to be President and not have any detailed policy on everything but one field. And sure it can be seen as signaling you care about one cause, but then what, we'll get dozens of candidates each only defending one issue ?

I'll admit Fabien Roussel has perked my interest, by wanting to be the candidate of the traditional, sensible left: in tune with the priorities of working people, rejecting woke nonsense. I also think (reluctantly) that he's probably right to say nuclear energy must remain a key component of French energy production for the foreseeable future

Why "reluctantly" ? Nuclear energy is actually safer, cleaner, cheaper and more reliable than most of the "renewable". I agree we should move towards a mix in which renewable do take a greater share, but nuclear energy is really the best for base load.

because the transition to low-carbon alternatives is complicated and can't be fully achieved quickly. On the other hand, his apparently complete disregard for issues of animal wellbeing means that I can't vote for him.

Well, I don't care much about "animal wellbeing" at least not until we solve so many problems about "human wellbeing" first, sorry we'll have to disagree on that. But while Roussel doesn't care much directly for animals, he does care about the working conditions in agriculture and slaughterhouse, and those two issues are usually linked. More humane conditions for workers, rather than a seek for profit at all cost, usually tend to also increase the wellbeing of animals.

[Ariddia]

Mélenchon has been really disastrous in how he handled everything related to the pandemics, that's part of why I can't vote for him again this time.

I agree with you, yes. I can't vote for him again. And it seems we're not the only ones to think that way, as he's currently at 9% in the polls, compared with his 19% score in 2017.

I really dislike single-issue parties, whatever the issue is (same problem I had with "pirate party", even if I mostly agree with them). It's not really honest to run in an election to be President and not have any detailed policy on everything but one field. And sure it can be seen as signaling you care about one cause, but then what, we'll get dozens of candidates each only defending one issue ?

That's a fair point, yes. But I think the party's logic is defensible: By campaigning on one major set of issues and being able to attract voters all the same, the party is sending a clear signal to the others: This is an issue that people want action on, and so it's an issue where there are votes to be won. The aim is to get the other parties to adopt some of the party's ideas.

Why "reluctantly" ? Nuclear energy is actually safer, cleaner, cheaper and more reliable than most of the "renewable". I agree we should move towards a mix in which renewable do take a greater share, but nuclear energy is really the best for base load.

I would need to look into this in more detail. Based on what I know so far, my view is: We should definitely not replace nuclear energy with forms of energy that are more polluting or less reliable, and nuclear energy should therefore remain the major source of France's energy for the foreseeable future (i.e., at least for quite a few decades), with only a gradual decline as reliable forms of cheap renewable energy are developed.

Well, I don't care much about "animal wellbeing" at least not until we solve so many problems about "human wellbeing" first, sorry we'll have to disagree on that. But while Roussel doesn't care much directly for animals, he does care about the working conditions in agriculture and slaughterhouse, and those two issues are usually linked. More humane conditions for workers, rather than a seek for profit at all cost, usually tend to also increase the wellbeing of animals.

That's true, and working conditions for agricultural workers and slaughterhouse workers are a major issue to address on humanitarian grounds. Hélène Thouy's argument (Mélenchon says this too, and on this at least he's right) is that our current modes of agricultural production, with the intensive production of cheap meat, are unsustainable for a whole combination of reasons: for environmental reasons, and because it means the exploitation of workers in those sectors, and of course because of the absolutely ghastly cruelty towards the animals involved, who are sensitive individual beings.

My view is that human wellbeing and animal wellbeing ultimately go together. Addressing one side of the equation helps to address the other. There's also the argument (which has been put forward since the time of Ancien Greece!) that brutality towards suffering animals densitises people to brutality towards suffering human beings.

[Shrillland]

I'm calling it now: Macron vs. Zemmour for the runoff and Macron will end up winning.

In that configuration, Macron would definitely win. Most people, I think, are well aware that Zemmour is a pathological liar and hate-stirrer with no real solutions to offer. It would be interesting, though, to see the level of abstention: the level of disengagement from politics as voters are faced with yet another unpalatable (or, at the very least, uninspiring) choice.

I voted Chirac in the second round in 2002 to help keep the far right down, and Macron in the second round in 2017 for the same reason. This time, if Macron were up against Zemmour or Le Pen, I would look at the polls. If the gap between him and his opponent were ten points or fewer, I would vote Macron for safety's sake, and because I don't want the far right at 45% (!). If he were leading by more than ten points, though, I may vote blank.

If the second round is Macron v Pécresse, I'll vote blank. I don't want to endorse either of them.

By the way, yesterday I became a member of the Animalist Party. It's the first time I've been a member of a political party. It doesn't look as if Thouy will be allowed to stand as candidate for president, but maybe I'll be able to help a bit during the campaign for the parliamentary elections.

Ngl, Macron vs. Pecresse sounds like the most boring runoff in history.

[Michel Meilleur]

In that configuration, Macron would definitely win. Most people, I think, are well aware that Zemmour is a pathological liar and hate-stirrer with no real solutions to offer. It would be interesting, though, to see the level of abstention: the level of disengagement from politics as voters are faced with yet another unpalatable (or, at the very least, uninspiring) choice.

I voted Chirac in the second round in 2002 to help keep the far right down, and Macron in the second round in 2017 for the same reason. This time, if Macron were up against Zemmour or Le Pen, I would look at the polls. If the gap between him and his opponent were ten points or fewer, I would vote Macron for safety's sake, and because I don't want the far right at 45% (!). If he were leading by more than ten points, though, I may vote blank.

If the second round is Macron v Pécresse, I'll vote blank. I don't want to endorse either of them.

By the way, yesterday I became a member of the Animalist Party. It's the first time I've been a member of a political party. It doesn't look as if Thouy will be allowed to stand as candidate for president, but maybe I'll be able to help a bit during the campaign for the parliamentary elections.

I'm probably not going to be able to vote due to the absolute shitshow that consular electoral lists are, but, honestly, it's not like there is anyone who is even remotely worth voting for this time.
And, isn't the animalist party the new name of Chasse, Pêche et Tradition?

[Ariddia]

I'm probably not going to be able to vote due to the absolute shitshow that consular electoral lists are, but, honestly, it's not like there is anyone who is even remotely worth voting for this time.

Sorry to hear that. And indeed, I'm not enthusiastic about any of the eight candidates who have now obtained the required signatures to take part.

And, isn't the animalist party the new name of Chasse, Pêche et Tradition?

Rather the opposite. CPNT is the hunters' party; the Parti animaliste advocates for measures that are the sensible consequence of knowing that animals (of many species, at least) are sensitive individual beings, with a capacity for pain, joy, anxiety, suffering, contentment, etc.

This is the party's website: https://parti-animaliste.fr

Their proposed policies include raising public awareness of animals' sensitivity and basic needs; outlawing cruel practices in farming (such as amputations without anesthetic, the very long transporting of farm animals massed in trucks without food or water, the massing of animals in cruel and unsanitary intensive indoor farming, etc); installing systematic surveillance in slaughterhouses and allowing spontaneous inspections of what is happening there; helping and accompanying farmers who wish to transition away from animal production; outlawing bullfighting, hunting with hounds, etc; banning hunting two days a week including Sundays...

I received my party member card yesterday.

[Michel Meilleur]

Rather the opposite. CPNT is the hunters' party; the Parti animaliste advocates for measures that are the sensible consequence of knowing that animals (of many species, at least) are sensitive individual beings, with a capacity for pain, joy, anxiety, suffering, contentment, etc.

This is the party's website: https://parti-animaliste.fr

Their proposed policies include raising public awareness of animals' sensitivity and basic needs; outlawing cruel practices in farming (such as amputations without anesthetic, the very long transporting of farm animals massed in trucks without food or water, the massing of animals in cruel and unsanitary intensive indoor farming, etc); installing systematic surveillance in slaughterhouses and allowing spontaneous inspections of what is happening there; helping and accompanying farmers who wish to transition away from animal production; outlawing bullfighting, hunting with hounds, etc; banning hunting two days a week including Sundays...

I received my party member card yesterday.

Interesting. Even as an avid consumer of meat, I have to agree with most of those proposals you listed (with the exception of those concerning hunting and corrida). Reckless capitalism has tried turning animal husbandry into assembly-line work and that's something horrible for both the animals and the consumers; with the consequences being made quite clear with the mad cow shitshow that happened in Britain.

I don't think I'd vote for them, but I think that those kinds of points are definitely very much worth raising.

[Ariddia]

Interesting. Even as an avid consumer of meat, I have to agree with most of those proposals you listed (with the exception of those concerning hunting and corrida). Reckless capitalism has tried turning animal husbandry into assembly-line work and that's something horrible for both the animals and the consumers; with the consequences being made quite clear with the mad cow shitshow that happened in Britain.

I don't think I'd vote for them, but I think that those kinds of points are definitely very much worth raising.

I think that's right: There are a lot of people who are not vegetarians or vegans but who are opposed to cruel practices in industrial mass-farming which make life unbearable for animals in the name of squeezing even more profit out of them. At the same time, it makes meat production more unsanitary for consumers (all pandemics in recent years have been linked to the way animals are treated, putting humans at risk), and very harsh for workers in those industries.

The way that capitalist mass-production treats animals and workers as disposable, unfeeling assembly-line items is mostly hidden from the general public, although people are gradually becoming more aware of it. Governments, though, usually try to protect big businesses rather than workers, consumers and animals. In Australia a few years ago, the right-wing government even introduced a law to punish activists who reveal illegal practices in the meat industry!

[Kilobugya]

Weird how few activity here while we are voting on presidential election on Sunday...

But it's true our politics are very distressing, Macron will cruise to reelection despite all the scandals about McKinsey, Mélenchon is no where near the second round despite what his fanboy pretends to be but the "useful vote" call will just shrink the left even more, Le Pen will again score about 20%... all very disheartening

[Shrillland]

Weird how few activity here while we are voting on presidential election on Sunday...

But it's true our politics are very distressing, Macron will cruise to reelection despite all the scandals about McKinsey, Mélenchon is no where near the second round despite what his fanboy pretends to be but the "useful vote" call will just shrink the left even more, Le Pen will again score about 20%... all very disheartening

Not really weird. As you yourself said, the politics are distressing and the election, with no offence meant, is actually kind of dull given the polling numbers showing a repeat of '17 more or less to the letter even with Le Pen surging in the first round polls.

[Kyapo]

Must say it's been interesting reading all the opinions of what's going on over the channel. I do watch France 24 news, as it's the only French TV we get. By the sounds of it I'd be an animalist voter if I got the vote there. Please to say UK animal rights are improving. Not great, but at least not US bad.

[Madrinpoor]

Who's ready for April 10!

[Bear Stearns]

I would never say never. Le Pen might actually pull it off.

[Shrillland]

I would never say never. Le Pen might actually pull it off.

I've seen the latest second round polls, her less extreme rhetoric and personal touch motif is helping, I'll admit that.

[Madrinpoor]

I would never say never. Le Pen might actually pull it off.

I've seen the latest second round polls, her less extreme rhetoric and personal touch motif is helping, I'll admit that.

True, but I think that Macron will win in round two. His response to COVID and Russia have been great, and even a lot of the extraordinarily pessimistic French agree.

[Madrinpoor]

Bouches-du-Rhône Senator and Marseilles Municipal Councillor Stephane Ravier(RN's only Senator) has endorsed Zemmour over Le Pen

I'm calling it now: Macron vs. Zemmour for the runoff and Macron will end up winning.

No way. Zemmour will get to round two when pigs fly and France likes its political system.

[Major-Tom]

Bouches-du-Rhône Senator and Marseilles Municipal Councillor Stephane Ravier(RN's only Senator) has endorsed Zemmour over Le Pen

I'm calling it now: Macron vs. Zemmour for the runoff and Macron will end up winning.

Zemmour is polling really badly with 2, 3 days to go.

I would never say never. Le Pen might actually pull it off.

She is within the margin of error, certainly. I think it's unlikely, but far from impossible.

[Kilobugya]

True, but I think that Macron will win in round two. His response to COVID and Russia have been great, and even a lot of the extraordinarily pessimistic French agree.

His response to Covid has been totally catastrophic, again and again. Always acting too late, spreading lies from day one (remember the masks ?), not listening to science (not moving a finger for air quality control and filtering, promoting the quacks like Raoult, ...), continuing his policy of closing hospital beds despite the pandemics, very messy start of the vaccination campaign, ...

But yes, I've to admit his handling of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was pretty good.

[Kindjal]

It's true that it's unsettling to see how dead this thread is, with such important election coming up shortly. I guess it may be because many french people don't speak much english. But then again, I feel that many french people are not really into it. It'd say they're quite disappointed by many decades of politics, especially left wing voters who had to put up with Hollande and maybe believed Macron was going to be a left wing president (he had been part of Holland government, which was supposed to be left wing, and had promised to lead a both left and right government).

My own ideas are, I think, closest to Poutou's. But the situation being what it is, I'm going to vote for Mélenchon. I know his personality or reactions have sometimes been bad, but I feel like his ideas are strong and his team is full of interesting people (Ruffin, Obono, Bernalicis, Quatennens, ...). Basically the choice is between him, Macron and Le Pen. Not that much of a choice really. Who wants 5 more years of Macron, apart from his friends and the richest which he helped getting even richer ?

[The Blaatschapen]

It's true that it's unsettling to see how dead this thread is, with such important election coming up shortly. I guess it may be because many french people don't speak much english. But then again, I feel that many french people are not really into it. It'd say they're quite disappointed by many decades of politics, especially left wing voters who had to put up with Hollande and maybe believed Macron was going to be a left wing president (he had been part of Holland government, which was supposed to be left wing, and had promised to lead a both left and right government).

My own ideas are, I think, closest to Poutou's. But the situation being what it is, I'm going to vote for Mélenchon. I know his personality or reactions have sometimes been bad, but I feel like his ideas are strong and his team is full of interesting people (Ruffin, Obono, Bernalicis, Quatennens, ...). Basically the choice is between him, Macron and Le Pen. Not that much of a choice really. Who wants 5 more years of Macron, apart from his friends and the richest which he helped getting even richer ?

When in the second round, the alternative is Le Pen, many French will prefer Macron

[Perikuresu]

When in the second round, the alternative is Le Pen, many French will prefer Macron

As an Aussie spectating the French election, the French have an option to choose between shit, and Pauline Hanson with Baguette (and nazi book in her living room... Allegedly just in case certain laws were to pass in my country) as their President. I know who I'd vote for... Shit.

[Madrinpoor]

True, but I think that Macron will win in round two. His response to COVID and Russia have been great, and even a lot of the extraordinarily pessimistic French agree.

His response to Covid has been totally catastrophic, again and again. Always acting too late, spreading lies from day one (remember the masks ?), not listening to science (not moving a finger for air quality control and filtering, promoting the quacks like Raoult, ...), continuing his policy of closing hospital beds despite the pandemics, very messy start of the vaccination campaign, ...

But yes, I've to admit his handling of the Russian invasion of Ukraine was pretty good.

Sorry it's behind a paywall