French Politics Thread I: Borne to be wild

[Kilobugya]

[url=msn.com/en-us/news/world/france-s-new-right-wing-presidential-nominee-surges-in-polls/ar-AARzEke?li=BBnbcA1]Ile-de-France President and LR candidate Valerie Pecresse leading in runoff poll over Macron[/url]

Who is this? Never heard of her.

Just your old-school right-winger - wrecked havoc in public universities when she was minister of education, participated in anti-gay marriage march, cut financing to public transports and social housing as head of Ile-de-France region, cares only for the interests of the ultra-rich. But compared to Le Pen, Zemmour and Ciotti, she appears mainstream - a bit like Bush appears mainstream when compared to Trump, until we remember how horrible he actually was.

[Thermodolia]

Well Nouvelle-Calédonie has voted to remain in France for the final time. The vote to remain was overwhelming but that’s because the pro independence groups boycotted the vote.

New discussions on what will happen moving forward are expected to take place some time after the elections next year. With another referendum taking place in June of 23.

[Perikuresu]

Well Nouvelle-Calédonie has voted to remain in France for the final time. The vote to remain was overwhelming but that’s because the pro independence groups boycotted the vote.

New discussions on what will happen moving forward are expected to take place some time after the elections next year. With another referendum taking place in June of 23.

I haven't heard of another referendum coming up, although I do believe it's the best course of action considering like half the population boycotted the vote, although moving forward, if there's no referendum, and hopefully nothing spirals into conflict, I think it's possible to see New Caledonia as the new region of France?

[Kilobugya]

I haven't heard of another referendum coming up

The new referendum will not be on independence, but on what kind of institutions/framework it'll operate under now that independence has been rejected.

although I do believe it's the best course of action considering like half the population boycotted the vote although moving forward, if there's no referendum, and hopefully nothing spirals into conflict, I think it's possible to see New Caledonia as the new region of France?

Well, yes, organizing the "last" referendum in the middle of a pandemics against the will of all those in favor of independence is a violation of both the words and the spirit of the Noumea Agrements that i wonder what will come next...

[Madrinpoor]

Parts of the French Left organizes a primary to try and unite

With the elections approaching, the left — once a mighty force in French politics — is now largely in tatters, and many of its most familiar faces seem incapable of the one thing that both experts and supporters say offers the only possible path to victory: unity.

In a country that is shifting to the right, the left has found itself voiceless on issues like security, immigration and national identity, and it has failed to capitalize on the wave of protests over the environment and social justice that should have provided an opportunity to gain support.

“The left is in a situation of unprecedented ideological fragility,” said Rémi Lefebvre, a professor of political science at the University of Lille. “In this context, being divided means suicide.”

But amid the ineffectual chaos, there is now a push for order.

Bypassing traditional party tactics, the “Primary of the People,” a burgeoning effort led by a group on the left that is exhausted by the parties’ factionalism and fragmentation, will hold a vote in January for supporters to choose a single candidate before the French electorate weighs in as a whole.

...

The leaders of the primary campaign went to work in January, negotiating for months with most of these parties to work out a common base of 10 proposals for social and climate justice, including an increase in taxes for the wealthy and ending the use of pesticides by 2030.

Over 300,000 people have signed on to the initiative, the equivalent of 40 percent of all left-wing party members in France. They will vote in January to nominate a candidate, and have pledged to campaign on that person’s behalf.

But it will be a long road.

Until recently, left-wing parties had “scorned” the Primary of the People, seeing it as a competing force that could threaten their interests, Mr. Lefebvre said.

Samuel Grzybowski, a spokesman for the effort, said his team had been under pressure from established parties to end the primary process, with some parties even offering to help them win seats in Parliament if they stepped aside from the presidential race.

“It’s long been Baron Noir,” he said, referring to a hit TV series that depicts the shadowy side of France’s political life — a French version of “House of Cards.”

Jean-Luc Mélenchon, the leader of France Unbowed, described the calls for unity as too late and “pathetic.” But slowly, the tide has started to turn.

Mr. Montebourg’s desperate calls attracted attention, and then Anne Hidalgo, the mayor of Paris and the Socialist Party’s candidate, whose support has dropped to under 5 percent, acknowledged that the left was heading for a disaster.

[Kilobugya]

French Left organizes a primary to try and unite

The title is very misleading, as only a small part of the "french left" is participating to it. LFI isn't, EELV isn't, PCF isn't, NPA isn't, ...

The problems within the French Left are not only a problem of person (which a primary could solve) but a problem of broad orientation and priorities, with major disagreement on many topics, including very important ones such as energy or how to handle the pandemics. As much as I wish the left could unite, because it would be the only way to reach the second round of election and have a chance to win, I don't see it as realistic in the current situation.

[Thermodolia]

I haven't heard of another referendum coming up

The new referendum will not be on independence, but on what kind of institutions/framework it'll operate under now that independence has been rejected.

although I do believe it's the best course of action considering like half the population boycotted the vote although moving forward, if there's no referendum, and hopefully nothing spirals into conflict, I think it's possible to see New Caledonia as the new region of France?

Well, yes, organizing the "last" referendum in the middle of a pandemics against the will of all those in favor of independence is a violation of both the words and the spirit of the Noumea Agrements that i wonder what will come next...

Do keep in mind that the pro independence crowd was perfectly ok with the referendum being run during the pandemic until a few months before the referendum was supposed to take place.

They could have waited to ask for another referendum but they didn’t. The last (2020) referendum took place during the pandemic too and the pro-independence group had no issues with that.

[Michel Meilleur]

The new referendum will not be on independence, but on what kind of institutions/framework it'll operate under now that independence has been rejected.




Well, yes, organizing the "last" referendum in the middle of a pandemics against the will of all those in favor of independence is a violation of both the words and the spirit of the Noumea Agrements that i wonder what will come next...

Do keep in mind that the pro independence crowd was perfectly ok with the referendum being run during the pandemic until a few months before the referendum was supposed to take place.

They could have waited to ask for another referendum but they didn’t. The last (2020) referendum took place during the pandemic too and the pro-independence group had no issues with that.

Imagine having not one, not two but three damn referendum to see whether or not the majority of your population want to secede but you keep on losing every one of them so your only way to cope with it is to ask to "boycot" the last one so you can go and pretend that the rest of peoples that didn't go to vote actually sided with you. Really damn cringe, ngl.

Vive la Nouvelle-Calédonie Française, vive la France et vive leur union maintenue !

[Madrinpoor]

French Left organizes a primary to try and unite

The title is very misleading, as only a small part of the "french left" is participating to it. LFI isn't, EELV isn't, PCF isn't, NPA isn't, ...

The problems within the French Left are not only a problem of person (which a primary could solve) but a problem of broad orientation and priorities, with major disagreement on many topics, including very important ones such as energy or how to handle the pandemics. As much as I wish the left could unite, because it would be the only way to reach the second round of election and have a chance to win, I don't see it as realistic in the current situation.

Fixed the title

[Madrinpoor]

The new referendum will not be on independence, but on what kind of institutions/framework it'll operate under now that independence has been rejected.




Well, yes, organizing the "last" referendum in the middle of a pandemics against the will of all those in favor of independence is a violation of both the words and the spirit of the Noumea Agrements that i wonder what will come next...

Do keep in mind that the pro independence crowd was perfectly ok with the referendum being run during the pandemic until a few months before the referendum was supposed to take place.

They could have waited to ask for another referendum but they didn’t. The last (2020) referendum took place during the pandemic too and the pro-independence group had no issues with that.

On the other hand, the pro-Independence party won a majority in congress for the first time in history. So maybe the balance most New Caledonians want (cause generally the Kanaks, 41% of the population, are pro-independence, but the French-born citizens, 24% of the population, are against it. So that leaves 35% of the population, various other groups such as immigrants from the South Pacific and Java, as well as the rest of Southeast Asia and the largest "other" group, the mixed-race community that represents 11% of New Caledonia's total population, to decide New Caledonia's fate.) is for more autonomy, but not full autonomy. That's my guess. If the Kanaks push "all-or-nothing" when they don't have a majority of people on their side of the independence referendum, they're going to keep losing. But we'll see what happens.

For the record, I am very much in favor of New Caledonia being independent. The only reason they're not is so France can mine the nickel out of their island. It's colonialism at work all over again. The Kanaks should rule their own country.

[Corrian]

I feel like France lacks left parties at this point.

[Shrillland]

I feel like France lacks left parties at this point.

It lacks strong ones, certainly. There just aren't too many charismatic figures to revive the notoriously fractious French Left at the moment.

[Michel Meilleur]

I feel like France lacks left parties at this point.

It lacks strong ones, certainly. There just aren't too many charismatic figures to revive the notoriously fractious French Left at the moment.

It can be traced back to the left betraying the working class for anglo-saxon identity politics. It started happening ever since the end of the Soviet Union but it got worse lately and everyone else, the nationalist parties first and foremost, siphoned their votes due to that.
There is no "coming back" for the left until they abandon those stances and go back to what they knew how to do.

[Thermodolia]

It lacks strong ones, certainly. There just aren't too many charismatic figures to revive the notoriously fractious French Left at the moment.

It can be traced back to the left betraying the working class for anglo-saxon identity politics. It started happening ever since the end of the Soviet Union but it got worse lately and everyone else, the nationalist parties first and foremost, siphoned their votes due to that.
There is no "coming back" for the left until they abandon those stances and go back to what they knew how to do.

As dumb as he’s is at least Melenchon is somewhat against the anglo identity politics

[Shrillland]

Former Justice Minister and MEP Christine Taubira enters presidential race

[Michel Meilleur]

Former Justice Minister and MEP Christine Taubira enters presidential race

It truly is one to the bottom, tbh.

[New Baltenstein]

It can be traced back to the left betraying the working class for anglo-saxon identity politics. It started happening ever since the end of the Soviet Union but it got worse lately and everyone else, the nationalist parties first and foremost, siphoned their votes due to that.
There is no "coming back" for the left until they abandon those stances and go back to what they knew how to do.

As dumb as he’s is at least Melenchon is somewhat against the anglo identity politics

I do have the impression that with Melenchon, it is more of a tankie thing - "if it's coming from the US it MUST be bad" - rather than sensible analysis.

[Michel Meilleur]

As dumb as he’s is at least Melenchon is somewhat against the anglo identity politics

I do have the impression that with Melenchon, it is more of a tankie thing - "if it's coming from the US it MUST be bad" - rather than sensible analysis.

I mean, he do be woke as shit tho. Went on about how he'd "rather live surrounded by black than by blonde peoples" , that "he prefers black atheists to white catholics", that he "can not survive if he is surrounded by peoples with blue eyes and blonde hair" and he also did a reverse Manuel Valls saying that he's glad to see less white peoples around.

Tbh, I'm unsure which extent is him actually being racist or him just flinging shit around desperately trying to get noticed because I also remember him saying that it was retarded to say that racism was the root of inequality when it was just wealth disparity.

[Chessmistress]

Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.

At last election I foresaw that Macron was on the whole not better (not even worse but still not better) than Marine Le Pen, I said that it would have been a disaster with both of them: "whoever wins, we lose".
Now it seems that I was right.

[Kilobugya]

At last election I foresaw that Macron was on the whole not better (not even worse but still not better) than Marine Le Pen, I said that it would have been a disaster with both of them: "whoever wins, we lose".
Now it seems that I was right.

I expected Macron to be a disaster on economical issues - public services, welfare, working rights, ... but I didn't expect him to go that far into authoritarianism, anti-muslim paranoia and repression. And it seems we'll either 5 more years of that, or 5 years or Pécresse who would be very similar. So depressing.

[Ariddia]

The Beeb has this article about the French left dooming itself through presenting seven different candidates in this election, none of whom is even making 10% in the current polls.

An extract:

What went wrong for French left

When Mitterrand won the presidency in 1981, he was up against five left-wing and environmentalist candidates in Round One. However, his first-round vote was 25% and his nearest rival was the Communist, Georges Marchais, on 9%, the same as the highest-ranking leftist Jean-Luc Mélenchon is polling today.

In late-night sessions in Paris salons the arguments roll on about why things have come to this pass:

Is it because the French left is too doctrinaire, too wedded to theory and not sufficiently pragmatic like the German Social Democrats, who are now in power?

Is it because of a fault-line dividing old-style one-nation Socialists from the new identity politics brigade?

Is it because the dream of the left was shattered by the mediocrity of François Hollande? Is it because the Fifth Republic system needs big beasts to be in charge, and the left congenitally cannot produce them?

Is it because, paradoxically, France is already a left-wing country, economically speaking, so people who vote far right actually want to keep all the good things that Socialism has achieved? Is it that the left is scared of talking about immigration and crime?

Or is it simply that Emmanuel Macron craftily mastered this all along, splitting the left apart in 2017? The one thing it has not spent the last five years doing is getting back together.

[Perikuresu]

So who are your candidates for the presidential elections and what makes them bad? Basically, I've heard that y'all are fucked anyways so there's no point to voting

[Shrillland]

So who are your candidates for the presidential elections and what makes them bad? Basically, I've heard that y'all are fucked anyways so there's no point to voting

I might do a full profile for the top five later on, but the short version is that Macron's running again and is expected win in his milquetoastness simply because there aren't really any solid left-wing candidates to divide the left and centre. Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour are both on the fairly far-right, with Zemmour gaining support because he's attacking Le Pen for trying to tack RN closer to mainstream conservatism than her father ever allowed or even herself in the past. The mainstream right chose Ile-de-France President Valerie Pecresse, who's now tied with Le Pen for second place, and the only major Left candidate of any kind is Jean-Luc Melanchon, who doesn't inspire confidence in a lot of people. It'll be a close First Round, but Macron is still polled to win any runoff against any of the other candidates so far.

[Thermodolia]

So who are your candidates for the presidential elections and what makes them bad? Basically, I've heard that y'all are fucked anyways so there's no point to voting

I might do a full profile for the top five later on, but the short version is that Macron's running again and is expected win in his milquetoastness simply because there aren't really any solid left-wing candidates to divide the left and centre. Marine Le Pen and Eric Zemmour are both on the fairly far-right, with Zemmour gaining support because he's attacking Le Pen for trying to tack RN closer to mainstream conservatism than her father ever allowed or even herself in the past. The mainstream right chose Ile-de-France President Valerie Pecresse, who's now tied with Le Pen for second place, and the only major Left candidate of any kind is Jean-Luc Melanchon, who doesn't inspire confidence in a lot of people. It'll be a close First Round, but Macron is still polled to win any runoff against any of the other candidates so far.

Pecresse could be the only person who gives the Jupiter president a run for his money

[Kilobugya]

So who are your candidates for the presidential elections and what makes them bad? Basically, I've heard that y'all are fucked anyways so there's no point to voting

Fabien Roussel from PCF. He won't win, but he's the only one who is both really to the left (and will not fold in front of the capital owners on the first day), and yet anchored into science and rationality (not giving in to anti-vax, anti-nuclear psychosis nor to conspiracy theories or degrowth non-sense).