French Politics Thread I: Borne to be wild

[Atheris]

Not necessarily...the Soviet Union was quite very left wing. The CCP under Mao was also very left wing. Deng Xiaoping changed it to become more apolitical and less left wing. Republican Spain I have not studied, but Franco was a moderate fascist compared to Mussolini or Hitler.

CCP and the Soviet union were/are state capitalist which is right wing,Spain well,they were center-left

What does the USSR and Spain have to do with French Politics?

[Kowani]

Macron admits French culpability in the 1957 murder of Ali Boumendjel, an Algerian independence leader that successive governments lied about for decades, claiming he committed suicide

[Kilobugya]

Personally, I have pretty much equal resentment for both Macron and Le Pen, so when a runoff between them occurs in 2022 (unless a major scandal rocks either candidate), I would reluctantly abstain from the election.

Which is absolutely outrageous to me is that, if there was a single candidate from the left, we would avoid the disastrous Macron-Le Pen second round. But the accumulated feuds and the hyperamplified ego of many of the left makes that almost impossible. That's the tragedy.

In the first round, my support would go to La France Insoumise (roughly translates to "France Unbowed"), which is oddly enough more left-wing than the actual communist party. Strange.

I don't agree with that statement. FI is more nationalist than the PCF, and is much moderate in how it wants to change the economy. They are much more social-democrats and conservatives than we are in the PCF, on about all topics. But FI is more "fire-breathing" and revolutionnary in the tone they use, while we, as a 100 years old party that have been through everything, from being outlawed and fighting the nazis to being members of the government a few times, we go at it in a more polite tone, so we may appear to be more moderate. But our policy proposals are to the left of FI.

[Kilobugya]

What does the USSR and Spain have to do with French Politics?

Well, you know how it goes... I said I'm member of French Communist Party (PCF), and immediately I was told that communism and nazism are the same, than Hitler was leftist, and all that usual utter non-sense they spew instead of trying to understand what the PCF stands for and what its history is (hint: we actually paid an enormous price in blood to fight nazism and played a major role in liberating France).

[Ancapimania]

What does the USSR and Spain have to do with French Politics?

Well, you know how it goes... I said I'm member of French Communist Party (PCF), and immediately I was told that communism and nazism are the same, than Hitler was leftist, and all that usual utter non-sense they spew instead of trying to understand what the PCF stands for and what its history is (hint: we actually paid an enormous price in blood to fight nazism and played a major role in liberating France).

It's true

[Arisyan]

Personally, I have pretty much equal resentment for both Macron and Le Pen, so when a runoff between them occurs in 2022 (unless a major scandal rocks either candidate), I would reluctantly abstain from the election.

Which is absolutely outrageous to me is that, if there was a single candidate from the left, we would avoid the disastrous Macron-Le Pen second round. But the accumulated feuds and the hyperamplified ego of many of the left makes that almost impossible. That's the tragedy.

In the first round, my support would go to La France Insoumise (roughly translates to "France Unbowed"), which is oddly enough more left-wing than the actual communist party. Strange.

I don't agree with that statement. FI is more nationalist than the PCF, and is much moderate in how it wants to change the economy. They are much more social-democrats and conservatives than we are in the PCF, on about all topics. But FI is more "fire-breathing" and revolutionnary in the tone they use, while we, as a 100 years old party that have been through everything, from being outlawed and fighting the nazis to being members of the government a few times, we go at it in a more polite tone, so we may appear to be more moderate. But our policy proposals are to the left of FI.

Ill take your word for it, given that I don't actually live in France. In any case, I think they would both benefit from a sort of electoral alliance for the upcoming elections. Or at least a PCF-LO-NAP alliance so that the far-left vote isn't split. And I think a SP-EELV alliance would also be beneficial. That just leaves 3 left-wing major presidential candidates, which would maybe give one of them a shot at getting to the second round.

[Ancapimania]

What does the USSR and Spain have to do with French Politics?

Well, you know how it goes... I said I'm member of French Communist Party (PCF), and immediately I was told that communism and nazism are the same, than Hitler was leftist, and all that usual utter non-sense they spew instead of trying to understand what the PCF stands for and what its history is (hint: we actually paid an enormous price in blood to fight nazism and played a major role in liberating France).

And just saying I saw your political compass score,your quite ancap

[Kilobugya]

In any case, I think they would both benefit from a sort of electoral alliance for the upcoming elections. Or at least a PCF-LO-NAP alliance so that the far-left vote isn't split. And I think a SP-EELV alliance would also be beneficial. That just leaves 3 left-wing major presidential candidates, which would maybe give one of them a shot at getting to the second round.

LO and NPA would never ally with us, for different reasons (LO because they are sectarian, NPA because they still can't move from Stalin killing Trostky), but they are mostly irrelevant. What should be done, to get a chance at winning, is a PCF-FI-EELV alliance, perhaps with the left-wing of PS. But that will not happen, because both FI and EELV are fighting to know which of the two is the strongest, and they both have the delusion that only them can win.

[Kilobugya]

And just saying I saw your political compass score,your quite ancap

Uh what ? Ancap ? With -9.5 in the economic left/right ? Anarchocommunist perhaps (I'm not, I've some sympathies for them, but I disagree too much with them on strategy), but definitely not ancap.

[Ancapimania]

In any case, I think they would both benefit from a sort of electoral alliance for the upcoming elections. Or at least a PCF-LO-NAP alliance so that the far-left vote isn't split. And I think a SP-EELV alliance would also be beneficial. That just leaves 3 left-wing major presidential candidates, which would maybe give one of them a shot at getting to the second round.

LO and NPA would never ally with us, for different reasons (LO because they are sectarian, NPA because they still can't move from Stalin killing Trostky), but they are mostly irrelevant. What should be done, to get a chance at winning, is a PCF-FI-EELV alliance, perhaps with the left-wing of PS. But that will not happen, because both FI and EELV are fighting to know which of the two is the strongest, and they both have the delusion that only them can win.

Wait what is the most lib-right party?

[Ancapimania]

And just saying I saw your political compass score,your quite ancap

Uh what ? Ancap ? With -9.5 in the economic left/right ? Anarchocommunist perhaps (I'm not, I've some sympathies for them, but I disagree too much with them on strategy), but definitely not ancap.

I meant you were closer to ancap then the communist party in France,anyways private companies are based

[Kilobugya]

Wait what is the most lib-right party?

Well... we don't really have one anymore. A few years ago, you could have said Macron's. But since Macron did a hard turn to the right, going all-repression, mutilating protesters, doing frontal assault on the freedom of speech and research, going full racist dog-whistle, going full "I decide alone and I'm better than the scientists" on the handling of the pandemics, ... there is no major party (scoring more than 1% say) that is both in favor of economical laissez-faire, but also defending democracy and individual freedoms.

[Ancapimania]

Wait what is the most lib-right party?

Well... we don't really have one anymore. A few years ago, you could have said Macron's. But since Macron did a hard turn to the right, going all-repression, mutilating protesters, doing frontal assault on the freedom of speech and research, going full racist dog-whistle, going full "I decide alone and I'm better than the scientists" on the handling of the pandemics, ... there is no major party (scoring more than 1% say) that is both in favor of economical laissez-faire, but also defending democracy and individual freedoms.

So that's why France has high emigration rates,the left wing just rule the nation

[Kilobugya]

So that's why France has high emigration rates,the left wing just rule the nation

Saddly, the last time we had a left-wing government (and it was a very center-left one) was from 1997 to 2002. Since then it has been, on the economy side, one neoliberal reform after another, each time deepening the crisis, making inequality and poverty grow and working conditions worse. And one repressive, freedom-reducing reform after another, to fight "crime" and "terrorism". The only significant "left-wing" law we had since 2002 was allowing gay couples to marry and adopt children, in 2013.

[Ancapimania]

So that's why France has high emigration rates,the left wing just rule the nation

Saddly, the last time we had a left-wing government (and it was a very center-left one) was from 1997 to 2002. Since then it has been, on the economy side, one neoliberal reform after another, each time deepening the crisis, making inequality and poverty grow and working conditions worse. And one repressive, freedom-reducing reform after another, to fight "crime" and "terrorism". The only significant "left-wing" law we had since 2002 was allowing gay couples to marry and adopt children, in 2013.

I mean gay rights isn't left wing

[Farnhamia]

Well, you know how it goes... I said I'm member of French Communist Party (PCF), and immediately I was told that communism and nazism are the same, than Hitler was leftist, and all that usual utter non-sense they spew instead of trying to understand what the PCF stands for and what its history is (hint: we actually paid an enormous price in blood to fight nazism and played a major role in liberating France).

It's true

*looms ominously* What's true is, thread-jacking is against the site rules and you two should consider yourselves lucky you didn't get warned.

[Kowani]

8 oaks have been selected for the reconstruction of Norte Dame, from the forest of Berthe

[Farnhamia]

8 oaks have been selected for the reconstruction of Norte Dame, from the forest of Berthe

Which has about as much to do with French politics as the previous thread-jack.

[Madrinpoor]

Personally, I have pretty much equal resentment for both Macron and Le Pen, so when a runoff between them occurs in 2022 (unless a major scandal rocks either candidate), I would reluctantly abstain from the election.

Which is absolutely outrageous to me is that, if there was a single candidate from the left, we would avoid the disastrous Macron-Le Pen second round. But the accumulated feuds and the hyperamplified ego of many of the left makes that almost impossible. That's the tragedy.

In the first round, my support would go to La France Insoumise (roughly translates to "France Unbowed"), which is oddly enough more left-wing than the actual communist party. Strange.

I don't agree with that statement. FI is more nationalist than the PCF, and is much moderate in how it wants to change the economy. They are much more social-democrats and conservatives than we are in the PCF, on about all topics. But FI is more "fire-breathing" and revolutionnary in the tone they use, while we, as a 100 years old party that have been through everything, from being outlawed and fighting the nazis to being members of the government a few times, we go at it in a more polite tone, so we may appear to be more moderate. But our policy proposals are to the left of FI.

There is still a possibility that Hidalgo or someone else from the left may emerge as an alternative to Le Pen. The traditional right and left are still in shambles and they can't pull a viable candidate. My best bet for a leftist is probably Melenchon, because he barely missed the runoff last time and of all the leftist possibilities he is the most likely in my opinion.

[Sundiata]

Macron's party En Marche is dominating the French legislature. It's going to be a surprise if he faces any significant challenges in the future. It looks stable for his party and his place as Prime Minister.

[Thermodolia]

Macron will end up winning in 2022 unfortunately. Though while I think he’s gotten better I don’t actually think it’s going to last and is just a front for the election

[Madrinpoor]

Macron's party En Marche is dominating the French legislature. It's going to be a surprise if he faces any significant challenges in the future. It looks stable for his party and his place as Prime Minister.

Not forever though. Unless he can move from a political-outsider type to defining his party as more than a movement, he will die out when interest dies out. Especially when the traditional left and right (Socialists and Republicans) can get back on their feet and actually face him in an election. Right now outsiders like Macron, Melenchon, and Le Pen, who aren't necessarily all mainstream/establishment in my opinion, are getting the benefit of an open political field. But Covid will forever shape Macron's and LREMs chances.

[Thermodolia]

Macron's party En Marche is dominating the French legislature. It's going to be a surprise if he faces any significant challenges in the future. It looks stable for his party and his place as Prime Minister.

Prime Minister? Macron is the president not Prime Minister.

[Madrinpoor]

Macron's party En Marche is dominating the French legislature. It's going to be a surprise if he faces any significant challenges in the future. It looks stable for his party and his place as Prime Minister.

Prime Minister? Macron is the president not Prime Minister.

Castex is Prime Minister

[Sundiata]

Macron's party En Marche is dominating the French legislature. It's going to be a surprise if he faces any significant challenges in the future. It looks stable for his party and his place as Prime Minister.

Prime Minister? Macron is the president not Prime Minister.

Prime Minister? Macron is the president not Prime Minister.

Castex is Prime Minister

Sorry for that mistake.