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French Politics Thread/Sujet Sur la Politique Français

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Does Le Pen Have Enough Support To Win?/Le Pen a-t-il suffisamment de soutien pour gagner?

Yes, first round
1
17%
Yes, but in the second round because voters won't support Macron
0
No votes
No, Macron/someone else will win first round
1
17%
No, she will lose in the runoffs to Macron
4
67%
No, she will lose in the runoffs to someone else
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 6

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Madrinpoor
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French Politics Thread/Sujet Sur la Politique Français

Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:41 pm

Hello! Here is where we can talk about French politics in both English and French! This is no flaming, only civil discussion.

Bonjour! Voici où nous pouvons parler de la politique française en anglais et en français! Ce n'est pas une discussion enflammée, seulement civile.

*Only English speakers, turn on automatic google translate from French-English

*Seuls les amis francophones, basculer la traduction automatique de Google vers l'anglais
Last edited by Madrinpoor on Mon May 03, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:48 pm

Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.
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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:49 pm

Kilobugya wrote:Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.

Are you a yellow vest?
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Sengoku Americas
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Postby Sengoku Americas » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:50 pm

Kilobugya wrote:Well hi there. I'm French and member of PCF. And very worried about politics here, between the raise of extreme-right thesis everywhere, the misshandling of the pandemics from Macron, the disastrous social situation we are in, and the methodical disbanding of public services and social systems.

And also the state of extreme division of the left, which doesn't give us any real hope of victory in the coming elections, while on many topics (investing in education, healthcare, public transports, social housing; raising minimal wage and protecting workers; increasing tax on the rich; defending public services; ...) we actually have a majority of the population with us.


Can I ask what is the general response on the poor vaccination campaigns?
Five nations, one continent.
"Let everyone put forth their full effort for the reconstruction of our wonderful garden!"

Empress Park and Premier Kato's new collaboration album: Journey of Melody
Song in Praise of Feyrisshire Princess Reishi Yuri
The author does not in any way condone war crimes including carpet bombing, chemical warfare, biological attacks, and nuclear strikes
May the light of peace prevail always
大蛙都줄기 내려 아름다운 내 나라
公主님 높이 모신 歓呼声 울려 가네
先祖의 大業 継承者 民族의 領導者
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:53 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:Are you a yellow vest?


Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.
Secular humanist and trans-humanist, rationalist, democratic socialist, pacifist, dreaming very high to not perform too low.
Economic Left/Right: -9.50 - Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:55 pm

Sengoku Americas wrote:Can I ask what is the general response on the poor vaccination campaigns?


From what I can tell, overall it's mostly some mix of resigned shrugging, bitter-sweet laughing and distrust of everything coming from the government, and hope it'll still more or less work out due to the dedication of medical workers.
Secular humanist and trans-humanist, rationalist, democratic socialist, pacifist, dreaming very high to not perform too low.
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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:56 pm

Kilobugya wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:Are you a yellow vest?


Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies

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Sengoku Americas
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sengoku Americas » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:57 pm

Ancapimania wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
Let's say I'm sympathetic to their plea and suffering, I agree with many of their demand (such as more direct democracy and more taxation of the rich) and I did participate in some of the protests, but I'm not exactly one of them. I'm a communist.

Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies


There are varieties of leftism beyond Marxist-Leninism and Stalinism.
Five nations, one continent.
"Let everyone put forth their full effort for the reconstruction of our wonderful garden!"

Empress Park and Premier Kato's new collaboration album: Journey of Melody
Song in Praise of Feyrisshire Princess Reishi Yuri
The author does not in any way condone war crimes including carpet bombing, chemical warfare, biological attacks, and nuclear strikes
May the light of peace prevail always
大蛙都줄기 내려 아름다운 내 나라
公主님 높이 모신 歓呼声 울려 가네
先祖의 大業 継承者 民族의 領導者
万歳! 万歳! 레이시유리公主

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:58 pm

What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?
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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:59 pm

Ancapimania wrote:Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies


I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.
Secular humanist and trans-humanist, rationalist, democratic socialist, pacifist, dreaming very high to not perform too low.
Economic Left/Right: -9.50 - Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.69

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:02 pm

Nakena wrote:What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

I think it should have happened long ago. Their toxic ideas are poisoning France. Of course, I am a globalist Macronite. I wonder what farther right people think about this.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:03 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:
Nakena wrote:What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?

I think it should have happened long ago. Their toxic ideas are poisoning France. Of course, I am a globalist Macronite. I wonder what farther right people think about this.


I mean its at least there was that group and you knew what they stood for and where they were. So now there will be like maybe 2-3 different groups and probably at least one of them will be more radical. So... it may be whack a mole.

May not have been the best idea in a hindsight.
Last edited by Nakena on Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:04 pm

Kilobugya wrote:
Ancapimania wrote:Let me throw up because first you support ideas that the CCP,Lenin and Stalin support/supported and I'm a minarchist so I naturally hate the left wing commies


I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.

Every form of leftist are virtually the same

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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:05 pm

Nakena wrote:What do you think about the recent ban/dissolution of Generation Identitaire?


Should have been done a long time ago - having shitty political ideas isn't a crime, but being bullies and actively endangering the life of people is.
Secular humanist and trans-humanist, rationalist, democratic socialist, pacifist, dreaming very high to not perform too low.
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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:07 pm

Ancapimania wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
I definitely don't support stalinism. The communist ideal has nothing to do with that, and the variety of socialism I support before reaching communism is a democratic, respectful of individual rights and freedoms, one.

Every form of leftist are virtually the same

Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.
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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:25 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:
Ancapimania wrote:Every form of leftist are virtually the same

Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.

But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:59 pm

Ancapimania wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:Not really...for instance, China and the Soviets hated each other. Both leftists.

But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.
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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:05 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:
Ancapimania wrote:But they support the same policies,unlike the right wingers

I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.

Yet you don't include the lib right! And also nazism is authcenter while stuff like monarchys kingdoms and similar ideologies are far right.Also here is a little fact,the CCP and North Korea are far right,not far left because of state capitalism

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Kilobugya
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Postby Kilobugya » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:07 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other


Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.
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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:09 pm

Ancapimania wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:I would recommend reading "The Road to Serfdom" by FA Hayek. Even if you disagree with its individualist politics, it is quite interesting to read as it explains how collectivism, both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other. The Communists and Fascists saw each other as possible recruits. Benito Mussolini was a socialist at first. Their policies are not that different. There is even a speech where Hitler stated that Marxism and Nazism were not so different from each other.

Yet you don't include the lib right! And also nazism is authcenter while stuff like monarchys kingdoms and similar ideologies are far right.Also here is a little fact,the CCP and North Korea are far right,not far left because of state capitalism

Yes, I know that. Also the lib right is individualist, which I said. Nazism is economically sort of center, or it appears that way on the political compass, just because it is syncretic and has both right and left wing economic views. Socially they are extremely conservative, like Stalinism. The CCP morphed from syncretic communism, almost like the slightly-more-left version of Nazism to becoming an apolitical dictatorship, as did the DPRK. When you have absolute power you rarely are concerned with staying true to an ideology or not, but more with holding on to power.
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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:11 pm

Kilobugya wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other


Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

There are multiple sides to each ideology. We are not talking about social differences, which Fascism and Communism have in abundance. But economically they are very similar systems, with shared policies. The ideals of them are different, but not the practical aspects.
Sig Under Construction
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Current time: July 2021
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Headlines: Bombing in Suka Square Metro Station, Kohake; no potential suspects identified | Plans for shipping canal built across the Projects canceled after four day debate in City Council
Yooper High Kingdom wrote:If I could describe Mandrinpoor with one word, it would be this: Slick.

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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:11 pm

Kilobugya wrote:
Madrinpoor wrote:both Fascism, Communism, and all similar ideologies, are related to each other


Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

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Madrinpoor
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Postby Madrinpoor » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:12 pm

Ancapimania wrote:
Kilobugya wrote:
Fascism and communism are absolute antithesis. Trying to bundle them together is utter nonsense, that completely ignores both the enormous and opposing theoretical/ideological aspects of those two, and that disregard all actual history. Hitler came to power because Germany's bourgeoisie wanted to use him to crush the communists. Here in France it was the bourgeoisie saying "rather Hitler than popular front" while our comrades were dying defending Republican Spain from Franco.

Your ignorance about the complete and total opposition, both theoretical and pratical, between communism and fascism since the apparition of fascism in the 20s (and even with the proto-fascist groups that existed before) is really disgusting and harmful when you realize how many deaths, torture and suffering our comrades paid to fight fascist.

Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

Not necessarily...the Soviet Union was quite very left wing. The CCP under Mao was also very left wing. Deng Xiaoping changed it to become more apolitical and less left wing. Republican Spain I have not studied, but Franco was a moderate fascist compared to Mussolini or Hitler.
Sig Under Construction
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Current time: July 2021
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Headlines: Bombing in Suka Square Metro Station, Kohake; no potential suspects identified | Plans for shipping canal built across the Projects canceled after four day debate in City Council
Yooper High Kingdom wrote:If I could describe Mandrinpoor with one word, it would be this: Slick.

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Arisyan
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Arisyan » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:15 pm

ahh, the smell of a fresh new thread. Maybe a little early for the French political season, but ill take it.

Personally, I have pretty much equal resentment for both Macron and Le Pen, so when a runoff between them occurs in 2022 (unless a major scandal rocks either candidate), I would reluctantly abstain from the election. I won't give Macron the benefit of getting my vote just because his opponent is slightly more bad than him. In the first round, my support would go to La France Insoumise (roughly translates to "France Unbowed"), which is oddly enough more left-wing than the actual communist party. Strange.
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Ancapimania
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Postby Ancapimania » Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:16 pm

Madrinpoor wrote:
Ancapimania wrote:Did you read that all? Learn your facts because you are wrong,nations like italy and Germany were more left wing than spain,Soviet union and the CCP

Not necessarily...the Soviet Union was quite very left wing. The CCP under Mao was also very left wing. Deng Xiaoping changed it to become more apolitical and less left wing. Republican Spain I have not studied, but Franco was a moderate fascist compared to Mussolini or Hitler.

CCP and the Soviet union were/are state capitalist which is right wing,Spain well,they were center-left

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