NationStates

Egypt is a predominantly Muslim nation situated in Northeastern Africa. It is the only nation it is unanimously agreed upon that it is part of both Africa and the Middle East. Now, it plans to remove the Qur’ân from its school curriculum, minus Islamic schools.

And when I say remove the Qur’ân, I mean remove every single reference to any Qur’ân verse or Hadith from its textbooks, despite the fact they’re virtually all in the context of historical situations, Arabic literature, or promotion of things such as environmental conservation. Egypt claims its to fight extremism. However, more likely, it’s another measure by dictator as-Sisi to control every aspect of life in the country.

Through his reign, Sisi has introduced many measures he says are to counter extremism. While some of them evidently are aimed at combatting extremism, others aren’t: for example, every Imam (religious leader) is forced to give the exact same sermon as every other imam on Friday, all of which are pro-Sisi.

Egypt is majority Muslim, but has a native Christian population that has in many times in history suffered brutal suppression under Muslim rule. Both Muslims and Christians supported toppling the “Islamist” Muslim Brotherhood that controlled the country for a year and replacing it with Sisi’s government. However, Sisi has continued many Muslim Brotherhood era practices, and is as if not more authoritarian and repressive.
Sources:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i0wiFUksj5
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/egyp ... s-backlash

While I pride myself in my belief in secular schooling, and a secular viewpoint overall, to remove the Qur'an from the curriculum, even in the historical sense, is unforgivable. To me, it is the greatest crime to erase, or change, history, no matter how offensive of trivial said history is, and the Qur'an is definitely not trivial to the history of Egypt. Personally, I believe that the UN should make a formal condemnation of this action, though I doubt it will do little more than draw international attention to the situation.

Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

This is terrible. Like Islam or not, the Qur'an is possibly the most important book ever penned. Its the way GENERATIONS of poor, impoverished peoples learned to read, write, and recite. It's majorly responsible for much of the literacy in the muslim world, not to mention the explosion of science in the middle ages.

The Qur'an works to teach Arabic, its possibly the MOST important text in the language, not to mention ANY language.

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

Even in reference to historical situations?

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

Basically this.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

Even in reference to historical situations?

Uh yes. You can teach history without referencing the Bible, so it’s no different here

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

This removes all trace of an important. book that has been a pivotal part of Egypt's history. At least put it in history class...

Thermodolia wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:Even in reference to historical situations?

Uh yes. You can teach history without referencing the Bible, so it’s no different here

Jewish and Christian history: no

Drew Durrnil wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

This removes all trace of an important. book that has been a pivotal part of Egypt's history. At least put it in history class...

It’s no more important than the Bible was for most of European history.

Good. Hopefully they'll some day manage to remove it entirety from every aspect of public society.

Drew Durrnil wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Uh yes. You can teach history without referencing the Bible, so it’s no different here

Jewish and Christian history: no

But we don’t teach Jewish or Christian history in public schools dude

Thermodolia wrote:

Drew Durrnil wrote:This removes all trace of an important. book that has been a pivotal part of Egypt's history. At least put it in history class...

It’s no more important than the Bible was for most of European history.

No, it’s actually way more integral to Egyptian history.
Like, waaayyyy more integral.

Posadist-Communalists wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

Basically this.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The problem is, they are not removing the reading of the Qur'an, they are removing any reference of it, even in the historical since. Considering how literal Crusades have been fought over Egypt, to simply remove the mention of a book because it is a holy book is insane. The Muslim Fatimids, Mamluks, and Ottoman Empire all held Egypt, and if you remove the Qur'an, you lose important historical context for those time periods.

Thermodolia wrote:

Drew Durrnil wrote:Jewish and Christian history: no

But we don’t teach Jewish or Christian history in public schools dude

America is not an über religious nation that is about 90% Christian and 10% Jewish.
Egypt’s history is much more tied to religion. It literally started becoming closer to Egypt today when one of the successors of Muhammad (pbuh) conquered it.

Phaenix wrote:

Posadist-Communalists wrote:Basically this.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The problem is, they are not removing the reading of the Qur'an, they are removing any reference of it, even in the historical since. Considering how literal Crusades have been fought over Egypt, to simply remove the mention of a book because it is a holy book is insane. The Muslim Fatimids, Mamluks, and Ottoman Empire all held Egypt, and if you remove the Qur'an, you lose important historical context for those time periods.

Not really. You can still teach history and not mention the holy book. You can still teach the history of Israel and not mention the Torah once.

Thermodolia wrote:

Phaenix wrote:The problem is, they are not removing the reading of the Qur'an, they are removing any reference of it, even in the historical since. Considering how literal Crusades have been fought over Egypt, to simply remove the mention of a book because it is a holy book is insane. The Muslim Fatimids, Mamluks, and Ottoman Empire all held Egypt, and if you remove the Qur'an, you lose important historical context for those time periods.

Not really. You can still teach history and not mention the holy book. You can still teach the history of Israel and not mention the Torah once.

That’s because the history of Israel starts in 1948 and it’s very existence goes against the Torah.

Caribbean Confederation wrote:Good. Hopefully they'll some day manage to remove it entirety from every aspect of public society.

Dude.
No.

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Good. Religion doesn’t belong in education

Even in reference to historical situations?

Depends on what you mean. Religious texts are always important historically. But are they something that one should teach to a class of children who may/may not even believe in anything the book says?

The Bible illustrates Middle Eastern history as well, but I don't want that taught in public school either. Maybe it's my American upbringing, but as far as Sisi is doing, I think this is one of the better policies.

My biggest worry, though, is that there will be some sort of Fatwah and unrest in Egypt will become a lot more severe. That's something I don't want either way, I think that while secular policies are good, it shouldn't jeopardize the entire stability of the nation.

(I also wanna be clear that Sisi is definitely not on my "good person" list, and I am very critical about how he decided to step into regulating exactly how mosques work. Secular or not, governments should not get to decide how to run the house of worship itself)

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:But we don’t teach Jewish or Christian history in public schools dude

America is not an über religious nation that is about 90% Christian and 10% Jewish.
Egypt’s history is much more tied to religion. It literally started becoming closer to Egypt today when one of the successors of Muhammad (pbuh) conquered it.

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:It’s no more important than the Bible was for most of European history.

No, it’s actually way more integral to Egyptian history.
Like, waaayyyy more integral.

Though shit. You can talk about what actually happened without needing to reference the book

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:But we don’t teach Jewish or Christian history in public schools dude

America is not an über religious nation that is about 90% Christian and 10% Jewish.
Egypt’s history is much more tied to religion. It literally started becoming closer to Egypt today when one of the successors of Muhammad (pbuh) conquered it.

America has 30 million Jews?

Thermodolia wrote:

Insaanistan wrote:America is not an über religious nation that is about 90% Christian and 10% Jewish.
Egypt’s history is much more tied to religion. It literally started becoming closer to Egypt today when one of the successors of Muhammad (pbuh) conquered it.

Insaanistan wrote:No, it’s actually way more integral to Egyptian history.
Like, waaayyyy more integral.

Though shit. You can talk about what actually happened without needing to reference the book

The justification or cause for so many historical events in Egypt’s history was literally the Qur’ân.

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:Not really. You can still teach history and not mention the holy book. You can still teach the history of Israel and not mention the Torah once.

That’s because the history of Israel starts in 1948 and it’s very existence goes against the Torah.

I disagree. Israel's history goes back to the era of the Kingdom of Israel. I would also disagree with that part concerning its existence but let's not go there.

Insaanistan wrote:

Thermodolia wrote:
Though shit. You can talk about what actually happened without needing to reference the book

The justification or cause for so many historical events in Egypt’s history was literally the Qur’ân.

And? You can still mention those events without mentioning the book. All you say is that is was a war/event based on religious matters

Insaanistan wrote:Egypt is a predominantly Muslim nation situated in Northeastern Africa. It is the only nation it is unanimously agreed upon that it is part of both Africa and the Middle East. Now, it plans to remove the Qur’ân from its school curriculum, minus Islamic schools.

Sources:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i0wiFUksj5
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/egyp ... s-backlash

The articles indicate that Qur'an verses would still be in religion courses in public schools