Egypt Plans to Remove Qur’ân From Curriculum

[Adamede]

This is terrible. Like Islam or not, the Qur'an is possibly the most important book ever penned. Its the way GENERATIONS of poor, impoverished peoples learned to read, write, and recite. It's majorly responsible for much of the literacy in the muslim world, not to mention the explosion of science in the middle ages.

The Qur'an works to teach Arabic, its possibly the MOST important text in the language, not to mention ANY language.

Ok, and? Much the same is true about the Bible, and yet you can still learn Western history without it being constantly referenced.

[Punished UMN]

This is terrible. Like Islam or not, the Qur'an is possibly the most important book ever penned. Its the way GENERATIONS of poor, impoverished peoples learned to read, write, and recite. It's majorly responsible for much of the literacy in the muslim world, not to mention the explosion of science in the middle ages.

The Qur'an works to teach Arabic, its possibly the MOST important text in the language, not to mention ANY language.

Ok, and? Much the same is true about the Bible, and yet you can still learn Western history without it being constantly referenced.

That's true, but for things like understanding of the culture, and the influence of religion upon culture, it would be difficult to go without the Quran. And that's not even getting into its influence on actual law.

[New haven america]

Even in reference to historical situations?

Uh yes. You can teach history without referencing the Bible, so it’s no different here

You really can't.

Most of Western History has been affect by the book. Like 90% of European wars for example.

[Senkaku]

it's nice that the country's last few stable years before climate-induced water crises bring it utterly to its knees will have a little more secular symbolism than the ones before, I guess

[Nilokeras]

It’s no more important than the Bible was for most of European history.

The Bible should definitely have a place in literature courses, less for its religious content and more for cultural literacy. The Bible and Quran, whether you believe in what's in them or not, are two of the most influential things on their respective culture and you'd be missing out on a massive amount of culture if you weren't familiar with their contents.

Yeah like say what you will about the theology and politics of the King James Version, as a piece of literature it's up there with its contemporary Shakespeare in terms of the magnitude of its influence on English literature.

Like 90% of European wars for example.

Ah yes WWI, famously caused by an argument over homoousios vs homoiousios

[Arcturus Novus]

It seems a step too far to remove any and all references to the Quran from schools, given its historic importance in Egypt over the past... what, millennium and a half, almost? I don't think Egyptian teachers need to be reciting hadiths or anything like that, but like, at least talking about the Quran in a secular, historic/cultural manner should be okay.

Not really. You can still teach history and not mention the holy book. You can still teach the history of Israel and not mention the Torah once.

That’s because the history of Israel starts in 1948 and it’s very existence goes against the Torah.

Based

[The Archregimancy]

It seems a step too far to remove any and all references to the Quran from schools, given its historic importance in Egypt over the past.

It's probably just as well, then, that the stories linked in the OP do not state that the Egyptian government is doing any such thing.

The government is instead removing the use of quotations from the Quran as a means of teaching secular subjects in public schools, and instead restricting their use to teaching religious studies courses in public schools.

As this step appears to have the backing of Al Azhar University, it's difficult to see what the fuss is about.

[Arcturus Novus]

It seems a step too far to remove any and all references to the Quran from schools, given its historic importance in Egypt over the past.

It's probably just as well, then, that the stories linked in the OP do not state that the Egyptian government is doing any such thing.

The government is instead removing the use of quotations from the Quran as a means of teaching secular subjects in public schools, and instead restricting their use to teaching religious studies courses in public schools.

As this step appears to have the backing of Al Azhar University, it's difficult to see what the fuss is about.

Come now, Arch, do you expect me to read things? If that's the case though, that's fine, really. Secular education is for the best.

[The Archregimancy]

It's probably just as well, then, that the stories linked in the OP do not state that the Egyptian government is doing any such thing.

The government is instead removing the use of quotations from the Quran as a means of teaching secular subjects in public schools, and instead restricting their use to teaching religious studies courses in public schools.

As this step appears to have the backing of Al Azhar University, it's difficult to see what the fuss is about.

Come now, Arch, do you expect me to read things?

Such are the perils of being a former university lecturer.

[Ethel mermania]

Come now, Arch, do you expect me to read things?

Such are the perils of being a former university lecturer.

Drives you to cavorting with nazi's in caves, eh?

[Arcturus Novus]

Such are the perils of being a former university lecturer.

Drives you to cavorting with nazi's in caves, eh?

There's surely a poster of Arch in a leather duster and fedora in the moderation break room.

[Astral Traveller]

Sisi didn't plan to remove the Quran from the textbooks, but the ministry of education. Especially in history, natural conversation and morality lessons. The latter can be problematic when teaching about Islamic morality, since there has to be a basis to explain said morality by hadith and Quran.

EDIT: all can be problematic honestly. When you're explaining why natural conversation is important in Islam you need the sources as well. I can imagine that there is an issue with this lawmaking.

[Canadian Davsland]

I personally believe religion should not be in schools, especially the public school system.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Some of these arguments you guys are making are genuinely eyebrow raising.

Egypt, as a country, has existed for over 5,000 years. Only about 1,300 of those years has it had a Muslim majority/leadership. That's not half of Egypt's history. The idea that the Qur'an is somehow vital to teaching Egyptian history is absurd. Islam wasn't founded in Egypt, Muhammad never went to Egypt, Egypt plays play absolutely no role in the foundation of Islam. It was for the entirety of Muhammad's life under the rule of the Christian Byzantine Empire save for a brief occupation by the Sassanids. Quoting Islamic scripture is not a necessity for telling Egyptian history and the idea that the Qur'an should be given special attention in school curriculum because the country has been Muslim majority for the past 1,300 years is silly and insulting to the 3,700 years before Islam became the dominant religion.

Egyptian history is not being erased for fucks sake.

[Punished UMN]

Some of these arguments you guys are making are genuinely eyebrow raising.

Egypt, as a country, has existed for over 5,000 years. Only about 1,300 of those years has it had a Muslim majority/leadership. That's not half of Egypt's history. The idea that the Qur'an is somehow vital to teaching Egyptian history is absurd. Islam wasn't founded in Egypt, Muhammad never went to Egypt, Egypt plays play absolutely no role in the foundation of Islam. It was for the entirety of Muhammad's life under the rule of the Christian Byzantine Empire save for a brief occupation by the Sassanids. Quoting Islamic scripture is not a necessity for telling Egyptian history and the idea that the Qur'an should be given special attention in school curriculum because the country has been Muslim majority for the past 1,300 years is silly and insulting to the 3,700 years before Islam became the dominant religion.

Egyptian history is not being erased for fucks sake.

The most recent 1300 years of Egyptian history and culture do not become irrelevant just because there was more time before that. You wouldn't say it's unnecessary to teach about Ba'athism in Iraq because the Mesopotamian city-states existed. Islam is outright more relevant to any living Egyptian's life than anything predating the Roman conquest of the country, and is more relevant to some 90% of the population than anything predating the Islamic conquest. Nobody is saying that all of Egyptian history is Islamic, but Islam has been one of if not the most dominant force in the country's political, cultural, demographic, and economic landscape since the Islamic conquest.

[The Archregimancy]

Some of these arguments you guys are making are genuinely eyebrow raising.

Egypt, as a country, has existed for over 5,000 years.

I'd phrase that differently.

Your basic point about the depth of recorded history in what's now Egypt is essentially sound; but 'Egypt, as a country, has existed for over 5000 years' is misleading. Even under ancient Egyptian civilisation the country was often divided, most notably for the 400 years of the Third Intermediate Period - which, while a modern concept, adequately covers the centuries that the Nile valley was dominated by a bewildering array of largely Libyan-ruled statelets.

It would be better to say that there's more than 5000 years of recorded history and civilisation in the Nile Valley, of which the current country of Egypt is the most recent iteration. But the history of the modern country of Egypt can only really be traced back to the arrival of Muhammed Ali Pasha (an ethnic Albanian born in what's now Greece), initially as Ottoman Wali, in 1805.

There's no real continuity of statehood or national identity between the Egyptian civilisation that ended with the death of Cleopatra VII and execution of Ptolemy XV Caesarion in 30 BC and the modern country of Egypt that evolved under the Muhammed Ali Dynasty, British colonial rule, and the republic established by Nasser in 1953; only a broad continuity of geography - though that's significant, of course.

[Nilokeras]

under the rule of the Christian Byzantine Empire

This is highly problematic erasure of the hard work of thousands of everyday Egyptians to clap their patriarchs on the head with a roof tile and drive them and all their Greekling Chalcedonian friends out of town in order to restore true orthodoxy to the see, and I for one am not here for it.

[SD_Film Artists]

And? You can still mention those events without mentioning the book. All you say is that is was a war/event based on religious matters

“Why were so many of the 13 colonies dominated by one sole church?”
“Religious stuff.”
Yeah, no, ain’t gonna work.

You can talk about the crusades or Anglo-Irish Christendom without mentioning specific bible passages. If Egypt is so centred on the Quran that you can't apply the same logic of the former examples then I'm starting to guess why it's being removed.

[Neanderthaland]

Okay

[Borderlands of Rojava]

How can u remove all references to the Quran from school? And how is this happening in Egypt a place where the average Muslim is more conservative than usual?

[Thermodolia]

First off not an atheist. Second I’m not even Christian. And third I think your claim is bullshit, not that the religion has different features but that the idea of mandatory readings somehow lead to literacy

Mandating that people learn to read doesnt improve literacy?

There’s a difference in mandating that people learn to read and mandating that people just read “x”. The first is a definite thing the later not so much

[Insaanistan]

Mandating that people learn to read doesnt improve literacy?

There’s a difference in mandating that people learn to read and mandating that people just read “x”. The first is a definite thing the later not so much

“The ink of a scholar is holier than the blood of a martyr. So learn to read. And once you learn: teach!”
-Muhammad (pbuh)
“Seek knowledge, even unto China.”
-Muhammad (pbuh)

Learning to read was something engrained in Islam. As the Qur’ân mandated that prisoner of war could not be made into slaves (effectively eliminating the near only way slaves could be procure) Muhammad (pbuh) notably let Makkan prisoners of war go if they could teach 10 Muslims to read.

[Thermodolia]

It’s no more important than the Bible was for most of European history.

The Bible should definitely have a place in literature courses, less for its religious content and more for cultural literacy. The Bible and Quran, whether you believe in what's in them or not, are two of the most influential things on their respective culture and you'd be missing out on a massive amount of culture if you weren't familiar with their contents.

I’d agree to that but the Bible or Quran or the Torah doesn’t need to be involved in history or math. You can leave it in literature or religion class

[Insaanistan]

How can u remove all references to the Quran from school? And how is this happening in Egypt a place where the average Muslim is more conservative than usual?

Fro what many other have corrected here, classes on religion will still be allowed to reference it.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

How can u remove all references to the Quran from school? And how is this happening in Egypt a place where the average Muslim is more conservative than usual?

Fro what many other have corrected here, classes on religion will still be allowed to reference it.

That doesn't sound so bad