Egypt Plans to Remove Qur’ân From Curriculum

[Salus Maior]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

[Langenia]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

Why do you think that?

[Salus Maior]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

Why do you think that?

Historically speaking, particularly in certain Islamic countries, trends towards secularization stoked anger towards religious minorities. As they would be blamed (accurately or wrongfully) as wanting to unseat Islam's privileged place in society and advance themselves. In our politics, you could say it's similar to how "socialist" politics in the U.S tend to stoke anger towards African Americans in the U.S. It's a rough comparison, but that's the basic of it.

Copts are already harshly discriminated against in Egypt, they will likely have such anger directed towards them if there continues to be a secularist trend.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Egypt is quite the bipolar country huh

[Deacarsia]

This is excellent news.

[Rusozak]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

Maybe. But using that as a deciding factor is just legitimizing terrorism as an effective tool.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Not a good idea. Schooling should be secular, but should teach about religions in a neutral sense as they are part of history and modern politics. They should teach about the Bible and the Quran but from a neutral perspective.

[Resilient Acceleration]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

For real, though. Not only specifically towards minorities, but just anger in general—this is asking for a backlash. In my country, we protect secularism(ish) by having religion in the curriculum, so the government can monitor and control what's being taught, teach the nice parts of the Quran and Hadith and hide the politically contentious ones, while also conforming the narrative with the pluralist national framework. IMO this, along with propping up moderate ulemas while deplatforming the radical ones, is a far more sustainable model if the goal is to 'tame down' Islamism in a country. You don't get to simply erase hundreds of years of traditions and history.

[Caribbean Confederation]

Anyone thinking about how this will encourage Islamist violence? Possibly towards non-Islamic minorities?

No? Just me?

I mean, just because something will make butthurt extremists go do the same sort of shit they already used to but on a larger scale doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. The State should just crack harder on the Islamists and protect the minorities.

[Auze]

A little odd, but I guess it's not like most schools in the west have the Bible in their curriculum anymore...

And when I say remove the Qur’ân, I mean remove every single reference to any Qur’ân verse or Hadith from its textbooks, despite the fact they’re virtually all in the context of historical situations, Arabic literature, or promotion of things such as environmental conservation.

Ok, that may be a bit far.

[Aogensokyo]

I think that secular education is good and I agree with this decision. Hopefully it will help reduce the threat of Islamic terrorism.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

The Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization and it would be best for Egypt to separate its educators from religion. Secularism and science are always better for humanity.

[The Archregimancy]

How can u remove all references to the Quran from school? And how is this happening in Egypt a place where the average Muslim is more conservative than usual?

Not in my experience, they're not; not compared to the Gulf states, anyway.

Alcohol's a lot more freely available in Egypt, for one. In Cairo I could find two shops where I could freely buy alcohol within a 10-minute walk of my apartment; in Dubai we needed a licence in order to buy any. There are also breweries and wineries in Egypt, and a state near-monopoly on alcohol production. Most of the beer and wine is fairly bad, though there is one smaller operation making drinkable wine (Beausoleil), and Sakara Weizen is probably the best local beer.

[Baltenstein]

You're 30 years late. It's the religious show-offs who are doing the darkness and oppression in Turkey these days.
And another fun fact: Religious piety is rapidly decreasing in Turkey, especially amongst the younger generations.
Just like religious fervor tends to rise when oppressed by an non- or anti-religious regime, so which irreligious feelings rise when it's the religious types who are in charge.

1)and where do you get all these stats? If one looks at the facts and stats about Turkey's reforms and how life changed under the AK Parti, your words can easily be refuted. No one is saying that the religious figures in Turkey are perfect and that the country has become a paradise on earth under them. Of course there are still shortcomings, but come on, let's be realistic.
2) Even if piety is decreasing in Turkey, it does not cancel out the fact that after years of internal oppression, Turkey has become a welcoming country for many Muslims around the world, so compared to how it was under the CHP in the end of the last century, religiousness is pretty high. So i do not understand why you mentioned it.
3) Well, life has ups and downs. So the level of faith fluctuates as well. You kinda confirmed my point about the rise of religious fervor if someone tries to suppress Islam in a way

Atheism is growing in Turkey

[Miku the Based]

I mean many colonies had a single church they followed. One was dominated by Quakers, the other Catholicism, etc.
Additionally, I go to a non-private school, and Bible verses were brought up when learning about history.

Then your history was poorly taught, there was no need to bring up verse. And no, churches did not have single churches they followed, they had predominant churches but most still had other churches within them. Some even had a every religion is accepted ideology.

I went my entire education in public school without hearing a single verse from bible or Torah and they where very easily able to tell students that wars/conflict ocurred due to differences in religious beliefs.

The only colony that had religious tolerance was Maryland for the longest time and even then they were separated into different social classes with the non-Catholics being of inferior class. He's right the colonies did only have one church or sect to subscribe to, it happens that they differ from the Anglican church at times which was one of the reasons they emigrated.

[Jarvikan]

Ok, and? Much the same is true about the Bible, and yet you can still learn Western history without it being constantly referenced.

That's true, but for things like understanding of the culture, and the influence of religion upon culture, it would be difficult to go without the Quran. And that's not even getting
into its influence on actual law.

Riddle me this.When did German culture have anything to do with the bible?

[Sungoldy-China]

In Egypt, the area of ​​arable land is too small to feed too many people,

Egypt now relies on foreign aid to buy food for its population,

But when the economic downturn leads to a reduction in aid and triggers a food crisis, Egypt may need an internal or external war to alleviate the crisis.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

That's true, but for things like understanding of the culture, and the influence of religion upon culture, it would be difficult to go without the Quran. And that's not even getting
into its influence on actual law.

Riddle me this.When did German culture have anything to do with the bible?

Emmm.....Had Germany betray Catholicism and convert to Islam?

[Northern Socialist Council Republics]

...so what’s supposedly the problem, again?

I see nothing wrong with taking religion or religious literature out of general education. It’s an excellent development that should be encouraged in more countries.

[-Ocelot-]

This is bad news only for radicals who are financially and politically invested into promoting Islamism. Everyone else wins.

[Jarvikan]

Riddle me this.When did German culture have anything to do with the bible?

Emmm.....Had Germany betray Catholicism and convert to Islam?

No.Most of the population converted to Protestantism,only the south is mainly catholic.

[The Free Joy State]

Teaching the Qur'an only in religious education classes seems like a very good suggestion. R.E. is the best venue to teach all religious texts, regardless of the text, and the reasons given -- to stop teachers distorting quotes to support their agenda in other subjects -- seems very sound to me.

[Caribbean Confederation]

Emmm.....Had Germany betray Catholicism and convert to Islam?

No.Most of the population converted to Protestantism,only the south is mainly catholic.

The South and the West, more like. And even then I detest the idea that Egyptians "betrayed" Catholicism when they were converted at sword by an invading force that committed something akin to a cultural genocide on them.

[The Archregimancy]

No.Most of the population converted to Protestantism,only the south is mainly catholic.

The South and the West, more like. And even then I detest the idea that Egyptians "betrayed" Catholicism when they were converted at sword by an invading force that committed something akin to a cultural genocide on them.

Not to mention that the Egyptians weren't even Catholic in the 7th century.

They were overwhelming non-Chalcedonian Christians following the Miaphysite Patriarch of Alexandria, who had separated from the rest of Mediterranean Christianity following AD 451.

Though 'cultural genocide' appears to be based on a misconception. The Islamisation of Egypt was slow and gradual, not a sudden conversion at sword point. Egypt remained majority Christian and Coptic-speaking for centuries, at least outside Cairo. The tipping point seems to have been the Crusades, not the initial conquest. More specifically, the 1163 attempt by the Kingdom of Jerusalem to invade the collapsing Fatimid Caliphate, the Ayyubid takeover of Egypt, and the attempts from the Fifth Crusade (1217-1221) onwards to secure Christian control of Palestine by first attacking Egypt, seem to have transformed the attitude of the Muslim rulers of Egypt towards their Christian subjects. From that point onwards, Muslims rapidly become a majority across the country, and Coptic went into swift decline as a language.

Western Christians... fucking up their Eastern co-religionists in the name of saving them since AD 1096.

[The Archregimancy]

One thing this thread is demonstrating is that most of you don't know nearly as much about modern Egypt or Egyptian history as you think you do.

I know I have most of you at a disadvantage on this point, and I'm doing my best to be patient over the various misconceptions; but you do modern Egyptians - the overwhelming majority of whom are kind, generous, and welcoming to visitors to their country - a disservice when you make assumptions about them; or their history.