NationStates

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:09 pm**

Stellar Colonies wrote:
All China wrote:
Calling what you disagree with propaganda won’t change it. China has been open about what happens in Xinjiang. The world knows what is fact and what is propaganda. Journalists going to Xinjiang to stir up trouble and play pretend when they get detained by police for being clown in a foreign country is the propaganda.

Imagine if Chinese journalists try to break into a school and claim people are being brainwashed. The police will remove them for disturbing the peace. Yet China is a dictatorship when the same happens from bombastic journalists coming for a sneaky story?

Facts are facts. Lies from fabricators don’t change it. Xinjiang is more safe now because of peaceful education programs and training for the betterment of the local population. It’s a shame that so much disinformation is spread about the good things happening in Xinjiang.

Do you have any evidence to present, and are you going to address the information provided in Pitcairn's post?

Without doing either, all you are posting is a series of words as verifiable as a sci-fi novel from the '50s.

Minor point, but you just implied China isn't a dictatorship. A system where one party is hegemonic over all the system is the definition of a dictatorship.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:09 pm**

All China wrote:Calling what you disagree with propaganda won’t change it.

Except that I explicitly gave arguments and links to back them up. Clearly you didn't read them.

China has been open about what happens in Xinjiang.

Is that why they forbid journalists and independent investigators from doing a full sweep of the area and only gave them staged tours?

The world knows what is fact and what is propaganda. Journalists going to Xinjiang to stir up trouble and play pretend when they get detained by police for being clown in a foreign country is the propaganda.

"Stir up trouble"... like filming places where they are not allowed to for some reason? Oh, the horror!

Imagine if Chinese journalists try to break into a school and claim people are being brainwashed. The police will remove them for disturbing the peace. Yet China is a dictatorship when the same happens from bombastic journalists coming for a sneaky story?

"Disturbing the peace" by filming where it isn't allowed! The absolute crime against humanity!

Facts are facts. Lies from fabricators don’t change it. Xinjiang is more safe now because of peaceful education programs and training for the betterment of the local population. It’s a shame that so much disinformation is spread about the good things happening in Xinjiang.

You are here spreading Chinese propaganda and you have the gall to call others "fabricators"? That's rich.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:10 pm**

Major-Tom wrote:
All China wrote:
Calling what you disagree with propaganda won’t change it. China has been open about what happens in Xinjiang. The world knows what is fact and what is propaganda. Journalists going to Xinjiang to stir up trouble and play pretend when they get detained by police for being clown in a foreign country is the propaganda.

Imagine if Chinese journalists try to break into a school and claim people are being brainwashed. The police will remove them for disturbing the peace. Yet China is a dictatorship when the same happens from bombastic journalists coming for a sneaky story?

Facts are facts. Lies from fabricators don’t change it. Xinjiang is more safe now because of peaceful education programs and training for the betterment of the local population. It’s a shame that so much disinformation is spread about the good things happening in Xinjiang.

Gonna be honest with you man, if you have a, let say an ulterior motive to spew whatever crap this is, don't hedge your bet on it working on NSG. I'm sure there are plenty of other outlets that might be more receptive to this.

If I had an ulterior motive I’d be a commentator on CNN crying about American companies getting discriminated against by China.

Just saw this topic and chimed in with reality since it’s full of anti-China talk.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:11 pm**

All China wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Gonna be honest with you man, if you have a, let say an ulterior motive to spew whatever crap this is, don't hedge your bet on it working on NSG. I'm sure there are plenty of other outlets that might be more receptive to this.

If I had an ulterior motive I’d be a commentator on CNN crying about American companies getting discriminated against by China.

Just saw this topic and chimed in with reality since it’s full of anti-China talk.

I mean...brand new nation whose sole purpose so far seems to be to act as a bullhorn for China. Might I be excused for being suspicious?

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:11 pm**

All China wrote:They posted a tweet and some blogs as evidence of a widely debunked conspiracy theory about China.

Nothing to address.

Actually, the tweet provided a chart and the blogs break down information related to what happened in Xinjiang. If you don't want to engage with the material, then don't come here.

Blogs are still better than the lies you spewed out with no links.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:12 pm**

All China wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:
Gonna be honest with you man, if you have a, let say an ulterior motive to spew whatever crap this is, don't hedge your bet on it working on NSG. I'm sure there are plenty of other outlets that might be more receptive to this.

If I had an ulterior motive I’d be a commentator on CNN crying about American companies getting discriminated against by China.

Just saw this topic and chimed in with reality since it’s full of anti-China talk.

"Chime in with reality"

Rich coming from the guy spouting Chinese lies.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:13 pm**

Major-Tom wrote:
All China wrote:
If I had an ulterior motive I’d be a commentator on CNN crying about American companies getting discriminated against by China.

Just saw this topic and chimed in with reality since it’s full of anti-China talk.

I mean...brand new nation whose sole purpose so far seems to be to act as a bullhorn for China. Might I be excused for being suspicious?

This is why I support making it so nations have to be X days old before they can post on the forum. Stops puppets spamming and misinformation spreading.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:14 pm**

Picairn wrote:"Disturbing the peace" by filming where it isn't allowed! The absolute crime against humanity!

This is classic clash of culture. Westerners think they can just go to other countries and cause a ruckus without consequences.

Obey the laws of where you travel. The world isn’t your playground. If you try to play James Bond in a foreign country you just want trouble.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:15 pm**

All China wrote:This is classic clash of culture. Westerners think they can just go to other countries and cause a ruckus without consequences.

Obey the laws of where you travel. The world isn’t your playground. If you try to play James Bond in a foreign country you just want trouble.

Ah yes, because journalists are all MI6 agents.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:16 pm**

Major-Tom wrote:
All China wrote:
If I had an ulterior motive I’d be a commentator on CNN crying about American companies getting discriminated against by China.

Just saw this topic and chimed in with reality since it’s full of anti-China talk.

I mean...brand new nation whose sole purpose so far seems to be to act as a bullhorn for China. Might I be excused for being suspicious?

Chinese can’t talk about China apparently

Only westerners who trust social media and sensationalist news. Lol.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:17 pm**

Picairn wrote:
All China wrote:This is classic clash of culture. Westerners think they can just go to other countries and cause a ruckus without consequences.

Obey the laws of where you travel. The world isn’t your playground. If you try to play James Bond in a foreign country you just want trouble.

Ah yes, because journalists are all MI6 agents.

Westerners believe in freedom of expression. That's a human right, meaning you just implied China breaks human rights.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:20 pm**

New Jacobland wrote:
Stellar Colonies wrote:Do you have any evidence to present, and are you going to address the information provided in Pitcairn's post?

Without doing either, all you are posting is a series of words as verifiable as a sci-fi novel from the '50s.

Minor point, but you just implied China isn't a dictatorship. A system where one party is hegemonic over all the system is the definition of a dictatorship.

A dictatorship is where the people have no say in what the government does. The opposite of China.

China and by extension CCP cannot exist without the people’s support. China is the largest country in the history of the world right now. If the people didn’t want the CCP they would’ve revolted like they did for hundreds of years.

One hundred years ago, China was a dictatorship. A Chinese general tried to declare himself emperor. The result? The people said no. Warlords took over. China was divided.

Seventy years ago. Chiang Kai Shek and Kuomintang take over China. For a bit, there was peace. The people supported him. Then Japan attacked. Kuomintang couldn’t defend the people. Communists did. This was how Mao took power despite smaller army.

After Mao, there was threat of riots again. But China and CCP adapted to the people’s demands. And for decades since, CCP balanced needs of the people with stability of the nation.

This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:24 pm**

New Jacobland wrote:
Picairn wrote:Ah yes, because journalists are all MI6 agents.

Westerners believe in freedom of expression. That's a human right, meaning you just implied China breaks human rights.

Freedom of expression is allowed.

Is it freedom of expression to trespass on school grounds? To break rules or laws of private or public spaces?

Try going to go see Merkel in Germany in the government buildings. If they say no, say it’s your freedom of expression! Lol.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:24 pm**

All China wrote:
New Jacobland wrote:
Minor point, but you just implied China isn't a dictatorship. A system where one party is hegemonic over all the system is the definition of a dictatorship.

A dictatorship is where the people have no say in what the government does. The opposite of China.

China and by extension CCP cannot exist without the people’s support. China is the largest country in the history of the world right now. If the people didn’t want the CCP they would’ve revolted like they did for hundreds of years.

One hundred years ago, China was a dictatorship. A Chinese general tried to declare himself emperor. The result? The people said no. Warlords took over. China was divided.

Seventy years ago. Chiang Kai Shek and Kuomintang take over China. For a bit, there was peace. The people supported him. Then Japan attacked. Kuomintang couldn’t defend the people. Communists did. This was how Mao took power despite smaller army.

After Mao, there was threat of riots again. But China and CCP adapted to the people’s demands. And for decades since, CCP balanced needs of the people with stability of the nation.

This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

This history of the Sino-Japanese war is bull****. What actually happened is that Chiang Kai-Shek, Mao, and the warlords agreed to stop fighting to drive out the Japanese. This means the onus rests as much on Mao as it does on Chiang. The people did protest once, Tiananmen Square. Guess what! China sent tanks and murdered them

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:30 pm**

All China wrote:A dictatorship is where the people have no say in what the government does. The opposite of China.

China and by extension CCP cannot exist without the people’s support. China is the largest country in the history of the world right now. If the people didn’t want the CCP they would’ve revolted like they did for hundreds of years.

One hundred years ago, China was a dictatorship. A Chinese general tried to declare himself emperor. The result? The people said no. Warlords took over. China was divided.

Seventy years ago. Chiang Kai Shek and Kuomintang take over China. For a bit, there was peace. The people supported him. Then Japan attacked. Kuomintang couldn’t defend the people. Communists did. This was how Mao took power despite smaller army.

After Mao, there was threat of riots again. But China and CCP adapted to the people’s demands. And for decades since, CCP balanced needs of the people with stability of the nation.

This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

If you want to regurgitate official Chinese history bullshit then at least be more creative with your efforts. The CCP did fuckall against the Japanese in WW2 except for the Hundred Regiments Offensive and minor guerilla battles while Kuomintang's forces were fighting conventional campaigns, which proved to be costly for Chiang Kai-shek and his troops especially in Battle of Shanghai and Operation Ichi-Go.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:32 pm**

The Huskar Social Union wrote:They are pretty shit
Heloin wrote:They’re actively committing genocide right now.
Big reason why ^

I generally find myself being against genocidal regimes.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:33 pm**

Ethel mermania wrote:
Heloin wrote:They’re actively committing genocide right now.

But they make such bloody good cameras.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:38 pm**

Islamic Holy Sites wrote:
The Cazistan wrote:As a Muslim, I approve of China, also there is no genocide lol.

As a muslim, I certainly do not, also there is a genocide lol.

It is interesting that two people of the same religion think so differently on the topic. I wonder if this is in part because of the culture surrounding each of you, different interpretations of Muslim values, how you were raised, etc. (Obviously everyone is different, and a religion doesn't mean you can't have differing thoughts, just interesting to me)

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:40 pm**

All China wrote:This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

Dictatorships aren't nearly as fragile as you make them out to be. People rarely revolt for fear of imprisonment and death, and even when they do they are generally defeated pretty quickly by armies and internal police.

China prohibits individuals from forming political parties, all individuals running for elections (including local elections) must be approved by the CCP, the party censors all media and the internet (great firewall), the NPC is just a rubber stamp for whatever the Standing Committee decides, and the parties critics (including its own members) are silenced by threats of arrest. Anyone seen as a political threat to Xi is convicted under "corruption" charges, which is very problematic considering there are no due process rights or right to a public trial. It's a sham of a democracy.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:40 pm**

New Jacobland wrote:This history of the Sino-Japanese war is bull****. What actually happened is that Chiang Kai-Shek, Mao, and the warlords agreed to stop fighting to drive out the Japanese. This means the onus rests as much on Mao as it does on Chiang. The people did protest once, Tiananmen Square. Guess what! China sent tanks and murdered them

That is simplified version of events. How do you think Mao defeated Chiang Kai-Shek? China is huge. It’s impossible to succeed without some of the people’s support. China was devastated by decades of unrest and Japanese war crimes. If they hated Mao like they hated the Kuomintang they would’ve discarded him for another warlord. Instead, they joined the Communists because, unlike Kuomintang, they actually cared about the peasants.

The people protested in the 90s. Right to protest is a human right isn’t it? The people spoke, and CCP answered. China reformed its economic policy to be more capitalist. And it instituted democratic reforms. No more “Chairman”. China has a President whose elected by the legislature. Legislature is elected by the people’s representatives. People win and lose elections in China all the time, just like America. If it was a dictatorship, the politicians would be in power for life.

Two of China’s recent Presidents voluntarily stepped down when their terms were over. Peaceful transfer of power doesn’t happen in dictatorships. Trump and Biden wasn’t very peaceful. Yet we know America is not a dictatorship.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:44 pm**

Picairn wrote:
All China wrote:A dictatorship is where the people have no say in what the government does. The opposite of China.

China and by extension CCP cannot exist without the people’s support. China is the largest country in the history of the world right now. If the people didn’t want the CCP they would’ve revolted like they did for hundreds of years.

One hundred years ago, China was a dictatorship. A Chinese general tried to declare himself emperor. The result? The people said no. Warlords took over. China was divided.

Seventy years ago. Chiang Kai Shek and Kuomintang take over China. For a bit, there was peace. The people supported him. Then Japan attacked. Kuomintang couldn’t defend the people. Communists did. This was how Mao took power despite smaller army.

After Mao, there was threat of riots again. But China and CCP adapted to the people’s demands. And for decades since, CCP balanced needs of the people with stability of the nation.

This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

If you want to regurgitate official Chinese history bullshit then at least be more creative with your efforts. The CCP did fuckall against the Japanese in WW2 except for the Hundred Regiments Offensive and minor guerilla battles while Kuomintang's forces were fighting conventional campaigns, which proved to be costly for Chiang Kai-shek and his troops especially in Battle of Shanghai and Operation Ichi-Go.

That isn’t historically accurate.

For the record, Chiang Kai Shek ran a real dictatorship in Taiwan. Taiwan wasn’t a western style democracy until very recently. People actually fled Taiwan to China because it was so bad.

If China was so bad and CCP were so power hungry, couldn’t they just invade Taiwan already? No. Because CCP doesn’t want war. The people don’t want war. Something Chiang Kai Shek learned too late when he let Japan trample over China.

Past is past.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:49 pm**

Picairn wrote:
All China wrote:A dictatorship is where the people have no say in what the government does. The opposite of China.

China and by extension CCP cannot exist without the people’s support. China is the largest country in the history of the world right now. If the people didn’t want the CCP they would’ve revolted like they did for hundreds of years.

One hundred years ago, China was a dictatorship. A Chinese general tried to declare himself emperor. The result? The people said no. Warlords took over. China was divided.

Seventy years ago. Chiang Kai Shek and Kuomintang take over China. For a bit, there was peace. The people supported him. Then Japan attacked. Kuomintang couldn’t defend the people. Communists did. This was how Mao took power despite smaller army.

After Mao, there was threat of riots again. But China and CCP adapted to the people’s demands. And for decades since, CCP balanced needs of the people with stability of the nation.

This isn’t dictatorship. If China was a dictatorship, it would’ve collapsed already. China adapts to what the people want and to what allows it to survive as a huge country. China can’t operate like a dictatorship or, like all dictatorships, it would be unable to survive without declaring war or turning on itself.

If you want to regurgitate official Chinese history bullshit then at least be more creative with your efforts. The CCP did fuckall against the Japanese in WW2 except for the Hundred Regiments Offensive and minor guerilla battles while Kuomintang's forces were fighting conventional campaigns, which proved to be costly for Chiang Kai-shek and his troops especially in Battle of Shanghai and Operation Ichi-Go.

Do you know why Kuomintang's force suffered heavy lose?
Because Chiang kai-shek（Jiang jieshi）didnt think they are "his troops".
He used them just in the way Democrats use Republican congressmen, or Republicans use Democratic congressmen.
If they succeed in fighting against Japan,good.If they lose and die,good as well.
In the same time,Chiang kai-shek（Jiang jieshi）put "his troops" in safe place.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:53 pm**

Tribal States wrote:
Islamic Holy Sites wrote:As a muslim, I certainly do not, also there is a genocide lol.

It is interesting that two people of the same religion think so differently on the topic. I wonder if this is in part because of the culture surrounding each of you, different interpretations of Muslim values, how you were raised, etc. (Obviously everyone is different, and a religion doesn't mean you can't have differing thoughts, just interesting to me)

I suppose it is which one you choose to believe and...your attachment to that issue. From what I've observed, people in my country are quick to criticize America after the recent racist attacks against Asians (especially against Indonesian-Americans), but....- well, this one is only just from what I've seen so it may be true and may be not - people tend to be silent when it comes to Xinjiang. Not that there aren't any uproar, but....it seems that people adopted "it's not my business" approach(?). Also adding to the fact that at least from what I gathered in comments, people dislike the West for the whole campaigns of human rights and criticizing other countries when....you know, they also have problems with that in their own countries.
People that I've talked to acknowledged that it's a whole nasty business there, but yeah, just that. Used to read in some local news article too about some people who went to visit Xinjiang who noted that indeed there are restrictions on religious freedom there and that the locals seemed to be constantly afraid.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:08 pm**

All China wrote:That isn’t historically accurate.

For the record, Chiang Kai Shek ran a real dictatorship in Taiwan. Taiwan wasn’t a western style democracy until very recently. People actually fled Taiwan to China because it was so bad.

If China was so bad and CCP were so power hungry, couldn’t they just invade Taiwan already? No. Because CCP doesn’t want war. The people don’t want war. Something Chiang Kai Shek learned too late when he let Japan trample over China.

Past is past.

> "That isn't historically accurate"
> Proceeds to skip my argument altogether and goes into another topic
10/10 argument.

Posted: **Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:31 pm**

All China wrote:
Picairn wrote:"Disturbing the peace" by filming where it isn't allowed! The absolute crime against humanity!

This is classic clash of culture. Westerners think they can just go to other countries and cause a ruckus without consequences.

Obey the laws of where you travel. The world isn’t your playground. If you try to play James Bond in a foreign country you just want trouble.

Yeah, no. "It's our culture" isn't a free pass to do whatever you want. "Reporting on human rights violations is against our culture" seems to be what your argument boils down to. It's like the people that defend the Yulin dog meat festival. "Hooking a dog to the ground and cooking them alive with a blow torch is part of Chinese culture! Westerners just want everyone to be like them! This is racism!"

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