Gender Abolitionism and Postgenderism

[New Astri]

The only way for racial injustices and disparities to be reconciled is if race is abolished. For as long as you're talking about different "kinds" of people (in this case, kinds of races), you're necessarily suggesting differences and inequalities between the different kinds.

Abolishing race by law will change institutional discrimination if there is any. But I doubt that it will completely remove injustice and disparities.

Institutions are run by people, and people quite often commit acts of injustice regardless of what the law technically is. Working to create legitimate social acceptance for people regardless of race or culture and then phasing out the concept of race > Saying "Okay, race is fake now!" and hoping people will listen.

[Thermodolia]

I’m sure this will go well

Pass me some popcorn.

[Kowani]

This is a really stupid argument that presupposes that there are no differences between how different races are treated and exist as social groups today
But there are. Race impacts practically every level of American society-and abolishing it as a concept without fixing the problems caused by it is going to keep those problems going-and now you won’t be able to see them.

I thought the meaning was to make humanity more united rather than just ignoring racism.

Not in the context Czechostan was using it.

If you keep making everything about race and defining the value of what people say on the colour of their skin then you'll only end up perpetuating racism.

“Don’t make things about race”=structural racism goes unchallenged.
It’s an extremely straightforward process, mate.

The exportation of American-style 'white or black or Hispanic' politics has gotten so bad that countries like France has started to take measures against it (which there's a separate thread for, BTW).

That France wanted to pretend their society was colorblind when it wasn’t has led to Macron trying to siphon votes from Le Pen is not relevant here

[Astral Traveller]

Abolishing race by law will change institutional discrimination if there is any. But I doubt that it will completely remove injustice and disparities.

Institutions are run by people, and people quite often commit acts of injustice regardless of what the law technically is. Working to create legitimate social acceptance for people regardless of race or culture and then phasing out the concept of race > Saying "Okay, race is fake now!" and hoping people will listen.

Well yes. But abolishing race seems more a technical law term to me than a real sociological change. Hence my comment.

[SD_Film Artists]

I thought the meaning was to make humanity more united rather than just ignoring racism.

Not in the context Czechostan was using it.

Unless there's some earlier context that I'm not aware of he seemed to make a good point; infact it was almost paraphraising the quote about disunity in my sig.

If you keep making everything about race and defining the value of what people say on the colour of their skin then you'll only end up perpetuating racism.

“Don’t make things about race”=structural racism goes unchallenged.
It’s an extremely straightforward process, mate.

Or structural racism grows with the amount of people who think that skin colour is a reason to treat people differently.

The exportation of American-style 'white or black or Hispanic' politics has gotten so bad that countries like France has started to take measures against it (which there's a separate thread for, BTW).

That France wanted to pretend their society was colorblind when it wasn’t has led to Macron trying to siphon votes from Le Pen is not relevant here

Hense why I mentioned the other thread. This thread is about gender.

[Crysuko]

Never going to happen, supported only by fringes on twitter and tumblr.

[Atheris]

Never going to happen, supported only by fringes on twitter and tumblr.

Actually, it's surprisingly widespread.

[Crysuko]

Never going to happen, supported only by fringes on twitter and tumblr.

Actually, it's surprisingly widespread.

call me when it gets serious traction outside the internet. you can replicate this condition by throwing your phone down a well.

[Atheris]

Actually, it's surprisingly widespread.

call me when it gets serious traction outside the internet. you can replicate this condition by throwing your phone down a well.

Did you click the link? It's not just the internet. There's a political party advocating for something similar in Chile after it gained traction on the internet there.

[TRIEADMORE]

Sex is a large part of many people’s lives.Sex and gender are indeed not mutually exclusive. They are both integrally related and influence health and well being in different ways.Gender seems like a social construct at times.I am trying to support the Transgender Rights Movement as a Transcurious ally in RL.I have to get more involved though as I have been at home due to being at home all the time because of the pandemic.

[Crysuko]

call me when it gets serious traction outside the internet. you can replicate this condition by throwing your phone down a well.

Did you click the link? It's not just the internet. There's a political party advocating for something similar in Chile after it gained traction on the internet there.

yes, you're very Quirky And Random™, have a sticker. can we have an actual discussion now or is it just unfunny jokes all the way down.

[Atheris]

Did you click the link? It's not just the internet. There's a political party advocating for something similar in Chile after it gained traction on the internet there.

yes, you're very Quirky And Random™, have a sticker. can we have an actual discussion now or is it just unfunny jokes all the way down.

Rickrolls all the way down.

[Crysuko]

yes, you're very Quirky And Random™, have a sticker. can we have an actual discussion now or is it just unfunny jokes all the way down.

Rickrolls all the way down.

Then I have nothing more to say to you.

[Atheris]

Rickrolls all the way down.

Then I have nothing more to say to you.

K, have a good night.

[The Remote Islands]

I'd argue that a lot of people, especially trans people, find a lot of comfort in their gender though. It's important to who we are, to our personal stories. I'm not just a person, I'm a woman - more importantly, I'm a trans woman. I don't see myself ever identifying otherwise.

This right here is why gender abolitionism is dumb.

[Crysuko]

I'd argue that a lot of people, especially trans people, find a lot of comfort in their gender though. It's important to who we are, to our personal stories. I'm not just a person, I'm a woman - more importantly, I'm a trans woman. I don't see myself ever identifying otherwise.

This right here is why gender abolitionism is dumb.

my statement about it only really existing on the internet stands.

[Auzkhia]

I'd argue that a lot of people, especially trans people, find a lot of comfort in their gender though. It's important to who we are, to our personal stories. I'm not just a person, I'm a woman - more importantly, I'm a trans woman. I don't see myself ever identifying otherwise.

This right here is why gender abolitionism is dumb.

Yeah, at least the iteration of it that TERFs propose.

TERFs often claim gender abolition, hell even I remember some saying that they were "genderfree radical feminists" a new euphemism to "gender critical" presumably. Though they seem to conflate being trans and gender as a concept, so when they say abolish gender, they mean abolish trans people.

[Kowani]

call me when it gets serious traction outside the internet. you can replicate this condition by throwing your phone down a well.

Did you click the link? It's not just the internet. There's a political party advocating for something similar in Chile after it gained traction on the internet there.

there are political parties advocating literally everything if you look hard enough

[The Remote Islands]

This right here is why gender abolitionism is dumb.

my statement about it only really existing on the internet stands.

And it should stay that way.

[Daarwyrth]

When it comes to things like social expectations and demands based on gender, yes, please, abolish that. Just because someone is biologically a man shouldn't mean they need to act according to some imaginary rulebook that society has devised and says "this makes you masculine". Even more so, I would love to see things like "we pay women less because of their biological sex" abolished, or the fact that if a man has a lot of sexual partners he's a hero, but when a woman does then she's suddenly a whore. Those kinds of things, abolish them ASAP. My biological sex didn't come with a rulebook that says what I can and can't do, like, think, say, or behave like. If, for example, I like Taylor Swift's music, or Lana del Rey's, why would that negate my masculinity?

However, if for example a transgender woman or man wants to express their femininity or masculinity, then they should absolutely get every single opportunity there is to do that. For me it's quite simple, if a transgender woman or man tells me what their gender is, that is what they will be to me. I don't care what sex they were at birth, they're now the sex/gender they say they are. The same goes for non-binary people, if they tell me that they're neither, why would I want to know what is between their legs? It has no significance, especially when they tell me that they consider themselves as non-binary.