What was the best Soviet Republic?

[Conservative Republic Of Huang]

Wasn't tanna tuva a Soviet republic

Not quite.

Tannu Tuva, more accurately the Tuvan People's Republic, was a sort-of independent state for just over 20 years from 1921 to 1944. It had previously been an outlying territory of Qing China that had been detached by the Mongolian Revolution of 1911, and formed a semi-autonomous Russian protectorate from 1914-1921. But while nominally independent, Tannu Tuva was always a Soviet puppet state, and was then annexed by the Soviet Union - ostensibly at the request of the Tuvan parliament (and if you believe that, I have a lovely statue at the entrance to New York harbour that I'd like to sell you). But it never became a full Soviet republic of the Soviet Union. From 1944-1961 it was an 'autonomous oblast' of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, and from 1961 to the end of the Soviet Union, an 'autonomous soviet republic' of the RSFSR. It's now a federal republic of post-Soviet Russia.

The postage stamps of the 1921-1944 independent republic are, however, sought-after collectors' items - and Tuva returned to international cultural prominence in the post-Soviet period as a result of a brief vogue for Tuvan throat singing. I'll admit to having Huun-Huur-Tu's classic 1993 album '60 Horses in My Herd' in my CD collection (yes, I still own CDs).

Speaking of Tannu Tuva, I had heard unsourced claims that Stalin decided to commit to the CCP after Chiang-Kai Shek complained about the Soviet annexation of Tannu Tuva. Although it sounds very in character for Chiang-Kai Shek, it does sound a little doubtful. Would you happen to know off-hand anything about that?

[Duvniask]

I don't think you have any notion of what the dictatorship of the proletariat entails. It is not the tyrannical rule of one man or a conspiratorial cabal as the more modern usage of the word suggests, it is the rule of the proletariat. The communist party is to serve as their instrument, through which they channel their collective power. You're misunderstanding its nature to be that of a dictatorship over the proletariat, not of it. The Bolshevik-made party state that ultimately turned against the workers, as exemplified in the brutal crackdown on Kronstadt, and ultimately initiated the counter-revolution under the guise of developing "socialism" is not something to be emulated. But neither should we delude ourselves into thinking that a communist revolution is about sharing power with its own enemies.

So in essence, historically it still ends up as a dictatorship.

Did I stutter? Did your brain implode as your were reading my post? Did you not see the part where I explicitly said not to emulate the Bolshevik-style party state?

[The Archregimancy]

Not quite.

Tannu Tuva, more accurately the Tuvan People's Republic, was a sort-of independent state for just over 20 years from 1921 to 1944. It had previously been an outlying territory of Qing China that had been detached by the Mongolian Revolution of 1911, and formed a semi-autonomous Russian protectorate from 1914-1921. But while nominally independent, Tannu Tuva was always a Soviet puppet state, and was then annexed by the Soviet Union - ostensibly at the request of the Tuvan parliament (and if you believe that, I have a lovely statue at the entrance to New York harbour that I'd like to sell you). But it never became a full Soviet republic of the Soviet Union. From 1944-1961 it was an 'autonomous oblast' of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic, and from 1961 to the end of the Soviet Union, an 'autonomous soviet republic' of the RSFSR. It's now a federal republic of post-Soviet Russia.

The postage stamps of the 1921-1944 independent republic are, however, sought-after collectors' items - and Tuva returned to international cultural prominence in the post-Soviet period as a result of a brief vogue for Tuvan throat singing. I'll admit to having Huun-Huur-Tu's classic 1993 album '60 Horses in My Herd' in my CD collection (yes, I still own CDs).

Speaking of Tannu Tuva, I had heard unsourced claims that Stalin decided to commit to the CCP after Chiang-Kai Shek complained about the Soviet annexation of Tannu Tuva. Although it sounds very in character for Chiang-Kai Shek, it does sound a little doubtful. Would you happen to know off-hand anything about that?

I don't really, but I can offer some informed speculation. It does sound entirely in character for Chiang Kai-shek, and it's worth noting that the Nationalists never recognised the loss of outer Qing Dynasty territories, including Mongolia. Even after they lost the Chinese Civil War, the Republic of China continued to claim Mongolia and Tuva; I think Taipei only finally recognised Mongolia's independence in 2002.

But Stalin's backing of the CCP pre-dates the Soviet annexation of Tuva. As early as 1923 Stalin was giving personal backing to the party (though initially in the hope that they could undertake an internal takeover of the KMT rather than supplant it), and the breakdown in relations between the CCP and KMT occurred in 1940, four years before the annexation of Tuva. I would think that Stalin's decision to offer the CCP more extensive practical assistance from c.1944 onwards had more to do with it being obvious that the war against the Nazis had been won rather than a spat over a border territory that had been in the Russian sphere of influence from 1911.

[The New California Republic]

Someone mentioned Germany earlier, and I was going to reply to it but I forgot. Now that my memory has been jogged I'll make the reply that I was intending to make.

I'm assuming for argument's sake they are meaning East Germany, as arguing that West Germany was a "Soviet Republic" doesn't make a lick of sense, while arguing the same for East Germany does have some merit.

Immediately post-war there is some merit in arguing that the Eastern sector of Germany was for all intents and purposes a "Soviet Republic", in that it was controlled by SMAD (Sowjetische Militäradministration in Deutschland). In a mixture of disassembling factories, spiriting their workers away to the Soviet Union, and via direct control of remaining industries via Soviet companies called SAGs (Sowjetische Aktiengesellschaft), they controlled all the main elements of the Eastern sector's economy. Politically the Soviets did paradrop in "their own Germans" that had been staying in the Soviet Union during the war, such as the groups led by Walter Ulbricht, Anton Ackermann, and Gustav Sobottka. The main parties led by Wilhelm Pieck (KPD) and Otto Grotewohl (SPD) unified (under pressure from Moscow) into the SED (Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands) in April 1946. The Stalinists in the party, led by Ulbricht and Pieck, largely dominated the new party, with the SPD elements being very much secondary, even though by numbers of party members the SPD members of the new party actually outnumbered the KPD members.

The German Democratic Republic was founded in October 1949. It wasn't until the start of 1954 that the Soviets stopped taking war reparations from them, and started handing back the companies that were under SAG administration. After this point, the economics of the GDR and the Soviet Union started to drift apart, in the form of the Vereinigung Volkseigener Betreibs (VVBs), which were large "associations" of similar industries which had some scope of independent action, and created to reduce the centralised bureaucracy.

Later, however, Article 6 of the 1974 Constitution of the GDR states that "The German Democratic Republic is for ever and irrevocably allied with the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics." However, the onset of Glasnost and Perestroika initiated by Gorbachev in the mid 1980s further led to some significant drifting apart between the GDR and USSR, where the GDR started censoring all mentions of Glasnost and Perestroika from their domestic press (most certainly because they were worried that their citizens would start demanding their own versions), the censorship itself can be considered quite a hostile act. However, the censorship was likely ineffective as there were still very large cultural exchanges and visits between the GDR and USSR in the form of a GDR organisation called Gesellschaft für Deutsch-Sowjetische Freundschaft, which actually encouraged such exchanges (and the membership of the organisation increased during Glasnost and Perestroika...); so inevitably the GDR's citizens were entirely aware of the USSR's willingness to engage in some reforms, and contrasted it with the utter recalcitrance and stubbornness of their own leadership in that regard. For example Erich Honecker, who was General Secretary of the SED, said that "We have done our perestroika; we have nothing to restructure." During the protests in 1989 Egon Krenz, a member of the Politburo, sent another member of the Politburo, Harry Tisch, to Moscow to tell Gorbachev (note: not ask for permission...) that they were going to remove Honecker at the next Central Committee meeting, which subsequently did transpire.

So yes, there is probably some merit in saying that up to the mid 1950s East Germany was for all intents and purposes a "Soviet Republic", all except on paper. After this point, however, the charge really doesn't stick.

[Treciene]

perestoika

[Free Ravensburg]

Kazakh. They once were the Soviet Union. alone

[Reploid Productions]

Let's let dead threads lie quietly, thanks!