Should Hunting for Sport be Banned?

[Nilokeras]

Still, 1-2 wolf attacks a year somewhere is higher than 0. In my view, that's 1-2 people who would die or be badly injured that could have been avoided by not reintroducing wolves to places near where there's a decent amount of people.

In places like that, hunters can pick up the slack fine.

We're not talking about 1-2 attacks per year, we're talking about 2 fatalities in more than 100 years and where attacks or aggression occur the majority were a result of the wolves being habituated to humans, largely due to humans feeding them. Which again is very rare because wolves avoid built up areas where they are likely to encounter humans. In terms of human impacts there are probably going to be several times more injuries or fatalities due to accidents during hunting in an extended season than there would be through the actions of wolves via introductions.

[Neanderthaland]

Still, 1-2 wolf attacks a year somewhere is higher than 0. In my view, that's 1-2 people who would die or be badly injured that could have been avoided by not reintroducing wolves to places near where there's a decent amount of people.

In places like that, hunters can pick up the slack fine.

We're not talking about 1-2 attacks per year, we're talking about 2 fatalities in more than 100 years and where attacks or aggression occur the majority were a result of the wolves being habituated to humans, largely due to humans feeding them. Which again is very rare because wolves avoid built up areas where they are likely to encounter humans. In terms of human there are probably going to be several times more injuries or fatalities due to accidents during hunting in an extended season than there would be through the actions of wolves.

There are wolves in Minnesota. A large enough population that some assholes seriously pushed for a hunting season on them.

Most people have never seen one. I've lived here for decades, and I've seen bears, foxes, coyotes, and even possums (which aren't supposed to exist this far north), but I've never seen a wolf.

They avoid people.

[Tyramon]

Unless it's for certain cultural practices, it definitely should. Killing animals to simply kill them and nothing more (not for food or population control) is completely cruel, detrimental to ecosystems and all in all just really despicable. So yes, in most cases it should be banned.

How do you define which "cultural practices" make it okay? One could argue that hunting for sport is a standard cultural practice dating back hundreds or thousands of years.

[Nilokeras]

And where there isn't a lack of wolves, the lack of fatalities has more to do with the human will to survive by scramming into the nearest car/building or scrambling up a tree (true story, a camp ranger actually got tree'd by wolves for a night like a week before a troop of Boy Scouts came to visit) than the common decency of the wolf.

See the report I posted.

Plus wolves still see a domesticated beef herd as an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Which is an entirely different problem - namely whether or not we should be managing federal lands so as to provide significantly under market value pasturage for ranchers or to promote the stability and ecosystem functioning of those lands.

[Adamede]

That's a fair trade off. Colorado had a referendum last year to reintroduce gray wolves.

Reintroducing an apex predator into an ecosystem that's adjusted to life without them where they themselves have no natural predators is just asking for bad things to happen.

Environments don’t adjust to a lack of apex predators, they’re thrown out of balance by a lack of them.
The environment isn’t going to be harmed by reintroducing great wolves to former native ranges. There are reasons to oppose it but that’s one of the dumber reasons to oppose it.

[Adamede]

But then what will we do about coyotes
They ain't tasty but often need to be shot
Don't forget boars, but those *are* tasty.

How about leave the coyotes alone?

Hunting predators is always stupid, coyote eat small prey animals (vermin) and serve to keep the vermin populations in check. When coyote are being shot in huge numbers the result is population explosions amongst vermin which leads to both ecological imbalances as the vermin eat more but also the surviving coyote have more to eat and are thus healthier and have bigger litters - because nature always tends towards homeostasis.

There also the factor that as canines, Coyote are intelligent, social species who have an emotional response to the death of family

They’re also a pest that’s greatly expanded beyond their native range due to the expiration of grey wolves from most of the continental United States and the fact that they thrive in habitats created by humans.
And most human prey are social animals.

[Kernen]

But then what will we do about coyotes
They ain't tasty but often need to be shot
Don't forget boars, but those *are* tasty.

How about leave the coyotes alone?

Hunting predators is always stupid, coyote eat small prey animals (vermin) and serve to keep the vermin populations in check. When coyote are being shot in huge numbers the result is population explosions amongst vermin which leads to both ecological imbalances as the vermin eat more but also the surviving coyote have more to eat and are thus healthier and have bigger litters - because nature always tends towards homeostasis.

There also the factor that as canines, Coyote are intelligent, social species who have an emotional response to the death of family

That just makes it a challenge.

[Hurtful Thoughts]

And where there isn't a lack of wolves, the lack of fatalities has more to do with the human will to survive by scramming into the nearest car/building or scrambling up a tree (true story, a camp ranger actually got tree'd by wolves for a night like a week before a troop of Boy Scouts came to visit) than the common decency of the wolf.

See the report I posted.

Plus wolves still see a domesticated beef herd as an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Which is an entirely different problem - namely whether or not we should be managing federal lands so as to provide significantly under market value pasturage for ranchers or to promote the stability and ecosystem functioning of those lands.

Wolves aren't limited to federal or even state managed land anymore, though.

We've got a pack or five prowling around one of our hydroelectric dams.

Spending the night chased up a malfunctioning power-pole in a storm isn't fun.

I'm pretty chill around wolves 'n bears 'n stuff, most people I know... not so chill.

[Nilokeras]

Wolves aren't limited to federal or even state managed land anymore, though.

We've got a pack or five prowling around one of our hydroelectric dams.

Federally managed lands that are maintained in a more or less 'natural' state are one of the largest pools of habitat for wolves and other wildlife. And are at the center of the debate about the use of that habitat for grazing, considering many ranchers use federal lands as free range pasture and see any intrusion of predators upon their use of that below market rate land as being unacceptable. In which case the answer for them is the same answer for ranchers on private land: use fences, actively patrol and deter encroachment.

Spending the night chased up a malfunctioning power-pole in a storm isn't fun.

I'm pretty chill around wolves, most people I know... not so chill.

As noted, the vast majority of wolf encounters deal with human habituated wolves or a threat response due to something like getting too close to a denning site. Which means that your anecdote from a coworker is most likely missing critical details or is just a story.

[Katganistan]

I've shot coyotes for a different reason- livestock protection.

my thought process was state-sponsored bounty programs, since the topic is sport hunting. While shooting coyotes shouldn't be the first option for livestock protection of course, I don't know if it can cease to be an option.

Shooting them dead is a lot more humane than a leg trap.

[Katganistan]

Reintroducing an apex predator into an ecosystem that's adjusted to life without them where they themselves have no natural predators is just asking for bad things to happen.

'adjusted' is quite the euphemism for a system which is in significant disequlibrium, subject to pandemic disease and in which forests are failing to regenerate because of overgrazing

Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone actually improved the environment.

[Kubra]

my thought process was state-sponsored bounty programs, since the topic is sport hunting. While shooting coyotes shouldn't be the first option for livestock protection of course, I don't know if it can cease to be an option.

Shooting them dead is a lot more humane than a leg trap.

Sure, but it's lethal options in general that are the problem, not any particular lethal option.
As has been said, denting coyote populations is near impossible, and often they're better off alive than dead.

[Nilokeras]

'adjusted' is quite the euphemism for a system which is in significant disequlibrium, subject to pandemic disease and in which forests are failing to regenerate because of overgrazing

Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone actually improved the environment.

Very much so! A link to the original study in case anyone's interested as posted earlier:

Wolf reintroduction in particular is quite remarkable in its efficacy in restoring ecosystem functioning and requires very little monitoring or intervention.

[Ethel mermania]

'adjusted' is quite the euphemism for a system which is in significant disequlibrium, subject to pandemic disease and in which forests are failing to regenerate because of overgrazing

Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone actually improved the environment.

Yeah sure Yellowstone is fine, its where they belong. Its when I see them trotting down the palisades parkway that I crap my pants.

[Neanderthaland]

Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone actually improved the environment.

Yeah sure Yellowstone is fine, its where they belong. Its when I see them trotting down the palisades parkway that I crap my pants.

I mean, sure. Predator scary. But the reality is that the deer trotting down the palisades parkway are probably more likely to attack you.

[Ethel mermania]

Yeah sure Yellowstone is fine, its where they belong. Its when I see them trotting down the palisades parkway that I crap my pants.

I mean, sure. Predator scary. But the reality is that the deer trotting down the palisades parkway are probably more likely to attack you.

More like run in front of my car and get hit. Wolves and bears don't belong in suburban environments.

[Neanderthaland]

I mean, sure. Predator scary. But the reality is that the deer trotting down the palisades parkway are probably more likely to attack you.

More like run in front of my car and get hit. Wolves and bears don't belong in suburban environments.

No, I mean actually attack. As in go up to you, and try to kill you with its hooves/horns. Deer do that.

It's kind of a moot point though, because wolves generally don't go into suburban environments. Bears, deer, coyotes, cougars, and even moose are all more likely to approach developed areas than wolves are.

[Aogensokyo]

I think it is okay to hunt for food. But to hunt for sport is disgusting.

[Katganistan]

I think it is okay to hunt for food. But to hunt for sport is disgusting.

I think I more fall on the "conservation" side.

You want to hunt deer, turkey, elk, moose, wild boar, bear, etc? Then utilize the whole carcass -- process it for meat, and leather/fur. (That would include taxidermy mounts, but the mount should not, in my view, be the ONLY utilization of the carcass.)

If it is necessary to reduce the number of predators for safety's sake, then that should be done as well. As stated before, the license fees actually provide funding to maintain the state and national parks.

I have family members who do hunt wild turkey for their table, and deer (when healthy) as well. They generally share the wealth -- family and friends are recipients of venison. I also know some folks for whom venison is their primary source of food -- they are farmers, and get a number of tags each year to protect their crops, and everything they get they process and put in the deep freeze for the year. Other family members who have shot deer to protect their crops on their own tags, and who are not dependent on what they can hunt to feed their own families, also then process their kills and give the meat to this family.

Were it not for hunting, they would be hard-pressed to provide enough food for their family.

[Katganistan]

More like run in front of my car and get hit. Wolves and bears don't belong in suburban environments.

No, I mean actually attack. As in go up to you, and try to kill you with its hooves/horns. Deer do that.

Get between a rutting buck and his rival or his doe, or between a doe and her fawns, and you will be lucky to get away with your life.

[San Lumen]

'adjusted' is quite the euphemism for a system which is in significant disequlibrium, subject to pandemic disease and in which forests are failing to regenerate because of overgrazing

Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone actually improved the environment.

Colorado voted to do this as well via referendum last year.

[Sundiata]

I enjoy it, I don't think that hunting for sport should be banned but there should be bans on endangered species.

[San Lumen]

I enjoy it, I don't think that hunting for sport should be banned but there should be bans on endangered species.

why shouldn't it be banned?

[Grinning Dragon]

I enjoy it, I don't think that hunting for sport should be banned but there should be bans on endangered species.

why shouldn't it be banned?

Banning things because it offends one's/someone's/some group's sensibilities is fucking stupid, that's why it shouldn't be banned.

[Ethel mermania]

More like run in front of my car and get hit. Wolves and bears don't belong in suburban environments.

No, I mean actually attack. As in go up to you, and try to kill you with its hooves/horns. Deer do that.

It's kind of a moot point though, because wolves generally don't go into suburban environments. Bears, deer, coyotes, cougars, and even moose are all more likely to approach developed areas than wolves are.

you say what you will, I know what I saw, me and my underwear believe.