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Is Being Pro-Immigration Left Wing?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Being Pro-Immigration belongs where on the Political Spectrum?

It's centrist in the sense it's a defining position of centrism
8
4%
The left wing
31
16%
The right wing
4
2%
It's neoliberal, which isn't a right (or left) wing tradition
12
6%
It's anarchist, which isn't a left or right wing tradition
2
1%
It exists beyond the left/right model of politics
68
35%
The question is nonsensical; immigration is a theatre of politics, not a subject about which political beliefs exist
40
20%
In America, it's part of the social identity of "being a Democrat" so is functionally left-wing regardless of its position on the spectrum
16
8%
The immediately above option but for some other country
3
2%
Other
12
6%
 
Total votes : 196

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New haven america
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby New haven america » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:59 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
New haven america wrote:Considering the fact that most of Europe is hard left and they have the same draconian immigration policies as America, Canada, Japan, Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand?

Yeah, imma say no.

Now if it's for the sake of human rights? Sure. If it's just being pro/anti immigration because... Eh, it's a mixed bag at best.


Most of Europe is center-left at best. They look leftwing compared to America because they have actual leftist parties and their main dominant parties are social democrats whereas here we just got the centrist party and right wing party, but Europe is not hard left.

Haha, no.

Places like Finland have UBI and have basically solved their homeless issue with government funded public housing.

But since those aren't socialism or communism then they're merely center-left at best, apparently. This is the less open-mindedness I was talking about.
Last edited by New haven america on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 pm

New haven america wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Western Europe is "hard left" from an American perspective. Things like universal healthcare are not even an issue for instance.
Of course, it is far more accurate to state that the USA has a heavily rightshifted Overton window.

To a lot of less open minded folks the only thing on the "Hard Left" is socialism and communism, nothing else.

So let them stew in their ignorance to the fact that left-leaning ideals are actually increadibly varied and different from each other.

Yeah, because "hard" in reference to a political faction means its most extreme supporters.
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Nilokeras
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
Image


Western Europe is "hard left" from an American perspective. Things like universal healthcare are not even an issue for instance. Parties like labour and socialists exist and actually have a shot to have influence.

Of course, it is far more accurate to state that the USA has a heavily rightshifted Overton window.


Hence the meme.

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Nilokeras
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Nilokeras » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:08 pm

New haven america wrote:To a lot of less open minded folks the only thing on the "Hard Left" is socialism and communism, nothing else.


'To a lot less open minded people, the universe outside of this black hole has time and space'

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 pm

New haven america wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Western Europe is "hard left" from an American perspective. Things like universal healthcare are not even an issue for instance.
Of course, it is far more accurate to state that the USA has a heavily rightshifted Overton window.

To a lot of less open minded folks the only thing on the "Hard Left" is socialism and communism, nothing else.

So let them stew in their ignorance to the fact that left-leaning ideals are actually increadibly varied and different from each other.

Hard green politics has been more visible (in the US) than socialism until very recently.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 pm

Picairn wrote:
Odreria wrote:But when racialist nationalist libertarians mobilize their supporters with xenophobia, pro immigration becomes right wing obviously.

Do you take your political news from Jreg?

It was obviously a joke... I was saying that the existence of racism doesn't magically make support for immigration leftwing.

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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:18 pm

No. Every right winger I know is pro-immigration, they just prefer that immigrants follow the legal process and assimilate into the local culture once they arrive.
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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:22 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:No. Every right winger I know is pro-immigration, they just prefer that immigrants follow the legal process and assimilate into the local culture once they arrive.

*nudge nudge* Yeah, I know what you mean.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:49 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
But patriotism can’t be the divider between left and right because left-wingers will justify things with patriotism too

For example, Democrats would say they are patriots just as much as Republicans

However, Republicans are more about preserving tradition and the existing national/ cultural identity or reverting to a glorified past


The Democratic party isn't left wing. It's centrist.


Really? But then what about all these identity politics policies it’s pushing? Like Biden pressing the transgender issue on day 1 etc? It generally seemed left wing to me.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:57 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
The Democratic party isn't left wing. It's centrist.


Really? But then what about all these identity politics policies it’s pushing? Like Biden pressing the transgender issue on day 1 etc? It generally seemed left wing to me.

left and right wing are relative terms

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Disgraces
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Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:04 pm

I mean, it's right wing populism. Interpret that however you want.

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:05 pm

Odreria wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Really? But then what about all these identity politics policies it’s pushing? Like Biden pressing the transgender issue on day 1 etc? It generally seemed left wing to me.

left and right wing are relative terms


Yes and no. It is odd that even if an American and an European agree on the same endpoints of the spectrum - say communism on the extreme left and fascism on the extreme right - they will still define center, left and right differently - by pretending a significant part of the spectrum simply does not exist.

In the USA that is "there is nothing between communism and the democrats".
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:06 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Odreria wrote:left and right wing are relative terms


Yes and no. It is odd that even if an American and an European agree on the same endpoints of the spectrum - say communism on the extreme left and fascism on the extreme right - they will still define center, left and right differently - by pretending a significant part of the spectrum simply does not exist.

In the USA that is "there is nothing between communism and the democrats".

The vast majority of Americans do not think the Democratic party is communist.

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:07 pm

Disgraces wrote:I mean, it's right wing populism. Interpret that however you want.

Support for immigration is right wing populism?

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:08 pm

Odreria wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:
Yes and no. It is odd that even if an American and an European agree on the same endpoints of the spectrum - say communism on the extreme left and fascism on the extreme right - they will still define center, left and right differently - by pretending a significant part of the spectrum simply does not exist.

In the USA that is "there is nothing between communism and the democrats".

The vast majority of Americans do not think the Democratic party is communist.

True, and that is not what I said.
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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:09 pm

The Alma Mater wrote:
Odreria wrote:The vast majority of Americans do not think the Democratic party is communist.

True, and that is not what I said.

If there is nothing between the Democratic party and communism, that means the democratic party is communist.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:11 pm

Odreria wrote:
The Alma Mater wrote:True, and that is not what I said.

If there is nothing between the Democratic party and communism, that means the democratic party is communist.


It means that moving even slightly to the left of the Democrats moves into the communist category.

There’s no viability or uniqueness to social democracy etc

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Disgraces
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Postby Disgraces » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:12 pm

Odreria wrote:
Disgraces wrote:I mean, it's right wing populism. Interpret that however you want.

Support for immigration is right wing populism?

I fucked up

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Odreria
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Postby Odreria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:15 pm

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Odreria wrote:If there is nothing between the Democratic party and communism, that means the democratic party is communist.


It means that moving even slightly to the left of the Democrats moves into the communist category.

There’s no viability or uniqueness to social democracy etc

ok well most people don't think bernie is communist either

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Moscareinas
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Ex-Nation

Postby Moscareinas » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:40 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:No. Every right winger I know is pro-immigration, they just prefer that immigrants follow the legal process and assimilate into the local culture once they arrive.


amnesty is a legal process

so is simplifying the immigration and citizenship process so more people can get in and become citizens at some point if they want to

"we're not anti-migrant, we're pro-legal migrant" is a dodge at best
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Engadine Mcdonalds 1997
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Postby Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 2:54 am

And here we have yet again as to why the terms "left" and "right" shouldn't exist, all it does is get people confused and asking pointless questions about "political leanings" and frivolous "ideologies". It ultimately is just another cudgel to be used by the upper class elites and landowners to split and divide us to ensure that we never unify against them, same as baseless accusations of "racism" "sexism" and "homophobia" against politicians that are showing promises of success for the working class.

We need to ask ourselves the true question: is immigration a good thing to have in a modern society? And when you are certain on the position of being either pro-immigration or anti-immigration, vote and support the party most in line with your belief.
Personally I believe that people should be able to immigrate to any nation of their choosing, provided they have a basic understanding of the local language(s) and a clean criminal record. No one should be restricted on the basis of their skin colour, religion, or sexual orientation
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:52 am

It has become a "left-wing" issue in the past years because various people see mass immigration as a acceptable means to destroy and undermine their historical enemy and opponent, namely the "white old male" or white patiriarchy. And since this is the enemy the woke "left-wing" knows and hates the most, importing another potential even more dangerous one (Islamism) is from this instinctive and deep cultivated perspective the lesser evil. Or sometimes not even an evil at all, because it isnt recognized as such. Or doing so would undermine the fight against the nr 1 enemy, the "white old men's capitalist patricachial and imperialist society" and "white supremacy" and what not.

Of course it's inverted eurocentrist bullshit, because even this is all based on the assumption that everything relevant is really inside the western and everyone beyond and outside it is just a player without own agency according to the game of western politics.

The possibility that people from other cultural spheres have their own memetics, ideologies and traditions, culture etc is omitted. Sometimes even they say culture doesnt exist. Which basically means they are just viewing people as random cogs in a machine that can be replaced. It's basically depriving culturally non-westerners of their identity, and reducing them to token figures that only gain validity if they accept the rules of the game.

So yeah, the so-called marxist left wing is incredibly eurocentrist and possibly even "racist" towards various people.
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:59 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Novokria
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Ex-Nation

Postby Novokria » Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:56 am

Yes it is left-wing and if you support it you need to be stripped of your citizenship immediately.
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Moscareinas
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Postby Moscareinas » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:24 am

no one is being destroyed if people who just wanna live and work and retire and enjoy the fruits of their labor for the rest of their lives come to do just that, whether or not they choose to know in depth the mores of the people they now live alongside

this isn't about sticking it to the white guy teeing off at mar-a-lago or some shit, this is about not treating all immigrants as potential if not actual criminals unless they actually come in to do harm
Moscareinas is an unexpectedly prosperous democratic republic whose territories include 54% of the western Indian Ocean, the IRL BIOT, Comoros, the Seychelles, Mauritius, and Reunion. Not included: Madagascar.

Moscans are torn about Madagascar.

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Moscareinas
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Ex-Nation

Postby Moscareinas » Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:25 am

Novokria wrote:Yes it is left-wing and if you support it you need to be stripped of your citizenship immediately.


k
Moscareinas is an unexpectedly prosperous democratic republic whose territories include 54% of the western Indian Ocean, the IRL BIOT, Comoros, the Seychelles, Mauritius, and Reunion. Not included: Madagascar.

Moscans are torn about Madagascar.

(Yes, I'm Dahon. Please.)

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