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Who is to blame for World War I

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Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:50 am

Heloin wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I think everyone from the Ice Age is dead.

Ug is doing pretty fine.

Nice work, Ug. Way to live.
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:20 am

The German Empire is the primary actor to blame for the start of WWI. The German government during the July Crisis actively sought to provoke Russia and France and pushed the Austro-Hungarians to take very extreme and firm measures. The Russians initially were furious with the Serbians and pushed them to accept most of the Austro-Hungarian demands which the Serbs did do. The Austro-Hungarians were also willing to accept the Serbs position but the German government basically bullied the Austro-Hungarians into rejecting it. The Germans knew that this would anger the Russians who couldn't afford to see Serbia, a country they basically were promising to protect, laid to waste and would go to war to prevent that which in turn would bring the French into the fold. The German government purposefully sought to neuter Russian and French power since the "diplomacy" of Wilhelm II had increasingly left Germany with very few friends and the friends they had weren't necessarily the strongest. Russia was also in the midst of industrialization and modernizing its military which the Germans were afraid of. A war with Russia also meant a war with France, their other rival and so knocking both of them out at the same time would leave Germany secure as the most powerful state in Europe and able to stand on equal footing with the British Empire who it was also in a strategic competition with in parts of Africa and the Pacific and most notably had resulted in a massive arms race between the two empires' navies. The only thing the Germans were afraid of was British intervention in the war but they thought Britain wouldn't actually get involved even if Belgium was invaded. Unfortunately, the British tried to play the neutral actor role for too long that July and by the time the British government signaled it would actually defend Belgium it was too late. The Germans did try to scramble to bring everything to a close after that but by then things had already crossed the Rubicon and war was more or less inevitable.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Senkaku » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:01 pm

Bombadil wrote: George, the British Empire at present covers a quarter of the globe, while the German Empire consists of a small sausage factory in Tanganyika. I hardly think that we can be entirely absolved of blame on the imperialistic front.[/i]

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Postby Major-Tom » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:47 pm

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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:00 pm

Well, you see, it all started with a man named Judas Iscariot...
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Tokora
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Postby Tokora » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:58 pm

The Black Hand, plain and simple. Not only did they assassinate the one person who could reform Austria-Hungary peacefully but his death led to 80 years of suffering for the European continent from wars to totalitarianism. I don't care for nobility and I see Franz as a flawed individual like most historical figures but I do know that you don't kill the people who are actually willing to hear you out.

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Postby Neanderthaland » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:10 pm

Jarvikan wrote:
Dogmeat wrote:Blaming the Germans for doing things that everybody else was allowed to do without blame. Sounds fair.

Germany already had a huge empire.They didn’t need to support Austria Hungary,and they also didn’t need a huge navy.

Not really. Belgium had a bigger empire.
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Crabaiaia
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Postby Crabaiaia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:15 pm

Austria-Hungary ofc, stop blaming Serbia for your troubles just because the Assassin was Serbian, Jesus!
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Postby Novokria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:16 pm

The Broflovski Family are behind all the Wars including WW1.
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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:20 pm

Tokora wrote:The Black Hand, plain and simple. Not only did they assassinate the one person who could reform Austria-Hungary peacefully but his death led to 80 years of suffering for the European continent from wars to totalitarianism. I don't care for nobility and I see Franz as a flawed individual like most historical figures but I do know that you don't kill the people who are actually willing to hear you out.

It was specifically because he was seen as someone capable of reforming Austria-Hungary that he was assassinated. The Black Hand were proponents of Yugoslavism as well as Serbian nationalism.

Dogmeat wrote:Blaming the Germans for doing things that everybody else was allowed to do without blame. Sounds fair.

Except it wasn't just them setting up colonies, it was them interfering in the colonies and protectrates of France and the UK. Examples include the First Moroccan Crisis and German support during the Second Boer War. It was this and the naval arms race initiated by the German government that heightened tensions beyond what was considered acceptable. Further, it was done deliberately. Wilhelm II and the German government knew they were provoking Britain and France, that was part of the aim.
Last edited by The Marlborough on Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm

Serbia for assassinating the archduke, and Russia for not minding their own business.
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Postby Dresderstan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:11 pm

All the major powers are to blame. Serbia for thinking their alliance with Russia would help, Austria-Hungary for bowing to pressure from Germany, Russia for thinking a war would be a good idea when they've had way too much economic, and social issues, Germany for getting into a two frontal war with Russia and France, France for having a shaky alliance with Russia, Britain for getting involved at all because Belgium, Italy for betraying the Central Powers, the Ottomans for going to war against the Russians and committing genocide against the Armenians because of fear of joining the Russians, and America for getting involved in the first place.
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Postby Pan-Asiatic States » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:08 pm

God.

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Ayverin
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Postby Ayverin » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:10 pm

The Austrians, man. The Austrians are to blame for both World War. World War 3 may start because an Austrian woman didn't get to speak with the manager.

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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:27 pm

Ayverin wrote:The Austrians, man. The Austrians are to blame for both World War. World War 3 may start because an Austrian woman didn't get to speak with the manager.

That sounds too American.
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Postby Crabaiaia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Ayverin wrote:The Austrians, man. The Austrians are to blame for both World War. World War 3 may start because an Austrian woman didn't get to speak with the manager.

No time for jokes man, get back to topic
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Postby Postauthoritarian America » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Germany.
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Postby Miku the Based » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:54 pm

Polska Rzeczpospolita Robotnicza wrote:To really understand the causes of WW1, one must look back to the Archean Eon and the evolution of chemotrophic prokaryotic ancestors from the primitive primordial soup. For additional reading I would look into the Great Oxygenation Crisis that ultimately led to the development of oxygen metabolizing life and consequently Eukaryotes.

This. Human development of civilization seems to necessitate world wide conflict for some reason.
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Postby Rusozak » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:30 pm

Ayverin wrote:The Austrians, man. The Austrians are to blame for both World War. World War 3 may start because an Austrian woman didn't get to speak with the manager.


Goes back further than that. Those pesky Hapsburgs...
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Postby Federation of American States » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:32 am

I blame the Military Industrial Complex, the Bankers, the Incompetent's Leaders of the Nations involved be it the 3 stooges of the WindserBattenburgRomanovHohenzollern family George V Wilhelm II, and Nicholas II, the Inbred Hapsburg, the Foolish Poincare, the Illegitimate "King" of Italy Victor III.

and as the War dragged on and it became apparent that no one was going to Win, the Rothchild's in London Pulled a few strings with the Rockefellers and JP Morgan on Wall street who used their Puppet Wilson. to send Americans to die for no Reason
other than a Boat Smuggling Arms in a International War Zone and a Telegram that is of Dubious nature, I wouldn't put it past the Brits to Forge a Telegram and then say they intercepted it.
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Postby Insaanistan » Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:12 am

The Two Jerseys wrote:Serbia for assassinating the archduke, and Russia for not minding their own business.

We can’t prove Serbia helped the Black Hand do it.
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Postby Taiwanese South West Africa » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:22 am

well obviously Germany, which just had war declared on by Britain because Britain was friends with Belgium, which was being trespassed by Germany in order to get to France to kick France’s ass because France was friends with Russia, who was getting ready to kick Austria’s ass because Austria was getting ready to kick Serbia’s ass because someone from Serbia shot the leader of Austria’s ass. (Or, actually, he shot him in the head.) And Britain is currently friends with Japan. So, you know what that means. Duh!

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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:47 am

Insaanistan wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Serbia for assassinating the archduke, and Russia for not minding their own business.

We can’t prove Serbia helped the Black Hand do it.


Parts of the Serbian military had connections with the Black Hand.

Although the assassination itself was more or less just chance. Gavrilo Princep happened to be at the right place at the right time, and Ferdinand happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. No planning was really involved.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:49 am

The Marlborough wrote:The German Empire is the primary actor to blame for the start of WWI. The German government during the July Crisis actively sought to provoke Russia and France and pushed the Austro-Hungarians to take very extreme and firm measures. The Russians initially were furious with the Serbians and pushed them to accept most of the Austro-Hungarian demands which the Serbs did do. The Austro-Hungarians were also willing to accept the Serbs position but the German government basically bullied the Austro-Hungarians into rejecting it. The Germans knew that this would anger the Russians who couldn't afford to see Serbia, a country they basically were promising to protect, laid to waste and would go to war to prevent that which in turn would bring the French into the fold. The German government purposefully sought to neuter Russian and French power since the "diplomacy" of Wilhelm II had increasingly left Germany with very few friends and the friends they had weren't necessarily the strongest. Russia was also in the midst of industrialization and modernizing its military which the Germans were afraid of. A war with Russia also meant a war with France, their other rival and so knocking both of them out at the same time would leave Germany secure as the most powerful state in Europe and able to stand on equal footing with the British Empire who it was also in a strategic competition with in parts of Africa and the Pacific and most notably had resulted in a massive arms race between the two empires' navies. The only thing the Germans were afraid of was British intervention in the war but they thought Britain wouldn't actually get involved even if Belgium was invaded. Unfortunately, the British tried to play the neutral actor role for too long that July and by the time the British government signaled it would actually defend Belgium it was too late. The Germans did try to scramble to bring everything to a close after that but by then things had already crossed the Rubicon and war was more or less inevitable.



It's worth noting that while the Habsburg monarchy was reluctant to go to war, the Austrian Military institution, headed by Conrad von Hotzendorf, was absolutely itching for war and wanted to crush Serbia.
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The Two Jerseys
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:47 am

Salus Maior wrote:
Insaanistan wrote:We can’t prove Serbia helped the Black Hand do it.


Parts of the Serbian military had connections with the Black Hand.

Parts of the Serbian military literally were the Black Hand.
Although the assassination itself was more or less just chance. Gavrilo Princep happened to be at the right place at the right time, and Ferdinand happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. No planning was really involved.

Technically it was planned, though it only succeeded through dumb luck.
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