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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 am
by Novokria
Istoreya wrote:
Novokria wrote:No you can not hate the Homosexuals because they are your fellow Humans God does not teach hatred against your fellow Humans he teaches Salvation for all.


We most work for God not against him.

Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:04 am
by Ifreann
Novokria wrote:
Istoreya wrote:Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 am
by Istoreya
Novokria wrote:
Istoreya wrote:Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

You are against gay people having the same rights that straight people have, therefore you are against them as you do not believe them to be deserving of civil rights.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am
by Caraani
Punished UMN wrote:
Caraani wrote:The fact that they're legal constructs doesn't make them any less valid. The rest of the world doesn't exist in a vacuum. Countries cannot pretend to be modern and developed when they adopt the technologies necessary to be developed but maintain ideologies from the Bronze Age. Our advancement isn't in a vacuum either. As we urbanised and made technological advancements we understood that things like infanticide, rape, slavery are wrong. Slavery was wrong any time, all the time, it's just that some parts of the world stopped justifying it before others. At that point slavery didn't stop being wrong only in those parts of the world, it continued to be wrong everywhere. Likewise, if the Western World now understands that homosexuals should be left to live like the tax-paying citizens that they are, that doesn't mean that only in the West is it ok to be gay, but in other parts of the world it is still ok to stone gays. It's wrong here, and it's wrong there. They just have to catch up.

So by what mechanism do we "discover" these objectively existing rights? Morality is not and never will be a science.

We "discover" them by the same mechanism that made us gather in large vertical blocks of concrete where we either sleep on soft beds or sit in such an unnatural manner to the point it literally messes up with our bodies - on chairs, staring into squares that emit light and typing away virtual letters on websites. It isn't that it is objectively existing, we have created and adapted to this way of living that we define as modern; and in it, we don't need men to die at the age of 20 in wars, women to breed and pump out more future soldiers for tribal conquests, and we don't need to kill gays because of what they're doing. We have adapted our morality to our way of life.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am
by Ethel mermania
Ifreann wrote:
Novokria wrote:Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 am
by Novokria
Ifreann wrote:
Novokria wrote:Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:08 am
by Caraani
Ethel mermania wrote:
Caraani wrote:Human rights aren't "western thought" - and the sooner some parts of the world understand this the faster we can move on from a Eurocentric world.

As soon as the rest of the world adopts European standards of thought we can move on from a eurocentric world?

Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:08 am
by Grenartia
Punished UMN wrote:
Caraani wrote:Are human rights different based on a person's location?

Certainly, because they're social constructs.


Guess that means slavery is A-OK if you live in a place where the local shitheads in charge think owning people is really swell.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am
by Ethel mermania
Caraani wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As soon as the rest of the world adopts European standards of thought we can move on from a eurocentric world?

Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?

Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am
by Istoreya
Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.

This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am
by Imperial Kaiserreich Germany
Molither wrote:Nope. I could never see it as justifiable to discriminate against people like me or view me less based on our sexuality.

Agreed. Burn them at the stake

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am
by Istoreya
Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Yeah, you see the problem with that is not everyone believes in God and your beliefs should not impact how other people live their lives.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am
by Caraani
Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am
by Ifreann
Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

It is homophobic to want to deny gay people equality in society, regardless of why you want to do that.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am
by Punished UMN
Grenartia wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Certainly, because they're social constructs.


Guess that means slavery is A-OK if you live in a place where the local shitheads in charge think owning people is really swell.

I would say it's morally wrong but that doesn't mean anybody will do anything about it.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am
by Ethel mermania
Istoreya wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.

This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?


The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am
by Punished UMN
Caraani wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:So by what mechanism do we "discover" these objectively existing rights? Morality is not and never will be a science.

We "discover" them by the same mechanism that made us gather in large vertical blocks of concrete where we either sleep on soft beds or sit in such an unnatural manner to the point it literally messes up with our bodies - on chairs, staring into squares that emit light and typing away virtual letters on websites. It isn't that it is objectively existing, we have created and adapted to this way of living that we define as modern; and in it, we don't need men to die at the age of 20 in wars, women to breed and pump out more future soldiers for tribal conquests, and we don't need to kill gays because of what they're doing. We have adapted our morality to our way of life.

This is just you having failed to make the is/ought distinction.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am
by Istoreya
Ethel mermania wrote:
Istoreya wrote:This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?


The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.

It's nothing to do with treating people differently. It's to do with denying people equal opportunities.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am
by Ethel mermania
Caraani wrote:
Novokria wrote:Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

105 years ago we would have been the weirdos advocating gay marriage.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am
by Caraani
Ethel mermania wrote:
Caraani wrote:Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?

Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.

I personally don't think so - but if it is, then I'm all for actively imposing it on other parts of the world. Some ideas simply are better than others, and your >insert adjective of culture, region or country here< intolerance isn't even remotely equal to my, apparently European tolerance. We don't need to tolerate intolerance.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am
by Novokria
Caraani wrote:
Novokria wrote:Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am
by Ethel mermania
Istoreya wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.

It's nothing to do with treating people differently. It's to do with denying people equal opportunities.

We deny children the right to marriage, the right to vote, the right to sign a contract.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am
by Ifreann
Novokria wrote:
Caraani wrote:Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.

Tough shit, they are called marriage and they happen wherever the people involved want.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am
by Punished UMN
Caraani wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.

I personally don't think so - but if it is, then I'm all for actively imposing it on other parts of the world. Some ideas simply are better than others, and your >insert adjective of culture, region or country here< intolerance isn't even remotely equal to my, apparently European tolerance. We don't need to tolerate intolerance.

And this is why the movement is failing.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:15 am
by San Lumen
Novokria wrote:
Caraani wrote:Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.


Who are you to make that decision? Why shouldnt it be called a marriage or be allowed to happen in a church? Religious institutions have the right to refuse same sex marriage.