Can Homophobia Be Justified?

[SD_Film Artists]

As a bisexual guy, I always like to point out this possibility among historical figures, bi erasure is still a big problem. That said, I also have to acknowledge that in some cases like this, it may be that someone was gay but managed to do what had to be done to have an heir or keep up appearances, that was a thing too. I don't think we can really know, especially with someone from so long ago as Alexander.

Nah. It was fairly normal back then to have same sex lovers in ancient greece. In fact it was considered as the real deal by some and the highest form of love and sex and what not.

That wasnt at all mutually exclusive with having simultanously families or relationship with females, marriages etc. It's perfectly likely Alexander had various same-sex lovers and as well was engaged to Roxanne and went with all of that. Bi-sexual? From modern view perhaps. But back then it was kinda business as usual.

Yup- being gay was something that you did rather than something that you were.

[Atheris]

You can't respect someone if you hold the belief that they are somehow "lesser."

Homophobia is never justified. Next question.

You can disagree with them and respect them. It just doesn't seem to be very common among people who are homophobic. But it's possible.

While I agree with this sentiment (it's the stance I hold towards non-binary people), homophobia is not "disagreeing" with gay people; it's treating them as a lesser person and in many cases not even a person at all.

[Necroghastia]

There's a few homosexuals I respect because of their achievements such as Alan Turing and vehemently disagree with the UK government in instituting trangender procedure on the poor man. But at the end of the day homosexuals are not allowed on our nation because all of the other baggage they bring along with them, their nature, etc. The reasoning of which I already explained earlier in the thread.
If there is a country which does not forcibly femminize them I would send them there instead. Any ex pats are all going to be paid by the national endowment of democracy to spread falsehoods about our nation anyways so it doesn't matter what their opinions are. Maybe people would wisen up if they saw the cruise liner the gays walked off of.

https://youtu.be/dbGmabfvRrY
also this is general, your nation is not real and does not matter

[Daarwyrth]

You can disagree with them and respect them. It just doesn't seem to be very common among people who are homophobic. But it's possible.

While I agree with this sentiment (it's the stance I hold towards non-binary people), homophobia is not "disagreeing" with gay people; it's treating them as a lesser person and in many cases not even a person at all.

Yes, and that is exactly the problem with homophobia and why it can't ever be justified. The moment one human being starts to treat another human being as lesser, worse or not even a person at all, that's where any freedom of expression or religion ends in my opinion. That is where the law should step in and protect people from being treated that way, and not even a religion should get a free pass for homophobia or any kind of -phobia because some religious text said so.

[Atheris]

While I agree with this sentiment (it's the stance I hold towards non-binary people), homophobia is not "disagreeing" with gay people; it's treating them as a lesser person and in many cases not even a person at all.

Yes, and that is exactly the problem with homophobia and why it can't ever be justified. The moment one human being starts to treat another human being as lesser, worse or not even a person at all, that's where any freedom of expression or religion ends in my opinion. That is where the law should step in and protect people from being treated that way, and not even a religion should get a free pass for homophobia or any kind of -phobia because some religious text said so.

While I disagree with any restriction of freedom of speech/expression/religion, that is why homophobia can't be justified.

[Istoreya]

Excuse me can you stop randomly throwing shitty opinions around and then refusing to answer to those who answer to you? Cause this seems like you're just here to bait people otherwise.

No, I'll say what I want, and respond to whom I feel like, go cry about it somewhere else.

You know what, good for you. Not everyone can pull off the "Opinions so stupid that they don't need to be defended". Neither can you, but at least you're trying.

[Loeje]

You can disagree with them and respect them. It just doesn't seem to be very common among people who are homophobic. But it's possible.

While I agree with this sentiment (it's the stance I hold towards non-binary people), homophobia is not "disagreeing" with gay people; it's treating them as a lesser person and in many cases not even a person at all.

It doesn't always have to go that far. When it does, that's wrong, but it can actually just be disagreeing.

[Goatmoon]

You know what, good for you. Not everyone can pull off the "Opinions so stupid that they don't need to be defended". Neither can you, but at least you're trying.

"any opinion that I disagree with and hurts my wittle feelings is stupid",

[Istoreya]

You know what, good for you. Not everyone can pull off the "Opinions so stupid that they don't need to be defended". Neither can you, but at least you're trying.

"any opinion that I disagree with and hurts my wittle feelings is stupid",

"I don't have an actual argument or the means to support my point like a proper debater, I just want to stir up shit because I have nothing better to do"

[The New California Republic]

You know what, good for you. Not everyone can pull off the "Opinions so stupid that they don't need to be defended". Neither can you, but at least you're trying.

"any opinion that I disagree with and hurts my wittle feelings is stupid",

It helps though if you don't say completely asinine shit like "most gay people are Marxist/Communist."

[Senkaku]

Nah. It was fairly normal back then to have same sex lovers in ancient greece. In fact it was considered as the real deal by some and the highest form of love and sex and what not.

That wasnt at all mutually exclusive with having simultanously families or relationship with females, marriages etc. It's perfectly likely Alexander had various same-sex lovers and as well was engaged to Roxanne and went with all of that. Bi-sexual? From modern view perhaps. But back then it was kinda business as usual.

Yup- being gay was something that you did rather than something that you were.

and it could've kept being that way if gay people hadn't had to forge a group identity to resist their oppression by the reactionary Christian state lol

[New haven america]

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

As a bisexual guy, I always like to point out this possibility among historical figures, bi erasure is still a big problem. That said, I also have to acknowledge that in some cases like this, it may be that someone was gay but managed to do what had to be done to have an heir or keep up appearances, that was a thing too. I don't think we can really know, especially with someone from so long ago as Alexander.

Which is interesting because bisexuality is actually the largest sexuality group behind heterosexuality.

Despite gays being more vocal, bisexuality is actually more common overall.

[Goatmoon]

What did I say that's not true then? All you're saying is "you're stupid! your opinions are shitty!" Everything I said can be backed up with quick google searches, or simply having a pair of eyes and ears, but we all know you "progressive" bunch are always right and anyone who has an opinion that opposes your worldview, whether backed by facts or statistics, are wrong.

You're all pretty much proving my point about the "tolerant" left, keep it up.

[Istoreya]

As a bisexual guy, I always like to point out this possibility among historical figures, bi erasure is still a big problem. That said, I also have to acknowledge that in some cases like this, it may be that someone was gay but managed to do what had to be done to have an heir or keep up appearances, that was a thing too. I don't think we can really know, especially with someone from so long ago as Alexander.

Which is interesting because bisexuality is actually the largest sexuality group behind heterosexuality.

Despite gays being more vocal, bisexuality is actually more common overall.

Given how many straight/gay people make jokes about how "everyone is a little bisexual"... Yeah. That's not how is works and people who think that aren't straight or gay. They just bi.

[Istoreya]

What did I say that's not true then? All you're saying is "you're stupid! your opinions are shitty!" Everything I said can be backed up with quick google searches, or simply having a pair of eyes and ears, but we all know you "progressive" bunch are always right and anyone who has an opinion that opposes your worldview, whether backed by facts or statistics, are wrong.

You're all pretty much proving my point about the "tolerant" left, keep it up.

We have no idea what you said that isn't true because you haven't backed up your point. If you want to debate someone, the burden of proof of your point falls on you, not the person you are debating. So, as you have been asked already, some sauce, please.

[Garkland]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

[Esalia]

What did I say that's not true then? All you're saying is "you're stupid! your opinions are shitty!" Everything I said can be backed up with quick google searches, or simply having a pair of eyes and ears, but we all know you "progressive" bunch are always right and anyone who has an opinion that opposes your worldview, whether backed by facts or statistics, are wrong.

You're all pretty much proving my point about the "tolerant" left, keep it up.

If it's really so easy for you to prove your arguments right, perhaps you should do it.

It's not our job to prove your arguments, that's self-defeating.

[Disgraces]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

That ain't homophobia, despite what some might say.

[The New California Republic]

What did I say that's not true then? All you're saying is "you're stupid! your opinions are shitty!" Everything I said can be backed up with quick google searches, or simply having a pair of eyes and ears

Provide a source that backs up your assertion that "most gay people are Marxist/Communist" if it's so easy to find one. The onus is on you to provide sources, rather than just going down the lazy route of "look it up yourself!"

[Istoreya]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

Hey, good on you for being honest. It's understandable that you might still struggle with feeling that way around gay people, especially when it's a case of residual feelings from the way you were before. There's nothing wrong with it, particularly when, as you stated you are, supportive of the existence of the community.

[Treciene]

No

[Garkland]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

That ain't homophobia, despite what some might say.

Then what is it? My definition of a fear is feeling uneasy, uncomfortable, or stressed out in a certain situation.

[Esalia]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

That ain't homophobia, despite what some might say.

I don't particularly trust the definition of homophobia coming from someone who flat-out called homosexuality a mental illness.

[Istoreya]

That ain't homophobia, despite what some might say.

Then what is it? My definition of a fear is feeling uneasy, uncomfortable, or stressed out in a certain situation.

Typically, people define homophobia as viewing LGBT people as lesser and wishing to deny them rights such as marriage and adoption.

Whether or not your reaction was homophobic is generally debated (but most gays say yes) but still most gay people agree that there's nothing wrong with having such a reaction when you can catch yourself out on it like you clearly can.

[Senkaku]

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

That ain't homophobia, despite what some might say.

Lmao then what the hell is it

I’m being really transparent with all of you and to be honest for a good 3 years, I had homophobia (a mild version). I would always feel uncomfortable and weird around members of the LGBT community and I would actively try to avoid Homosexuals. It wasn’t that I hated homosexuals and wished harm on them. It was just that I felt weird and unnatural around them. I still sometimes get that feeling around homosexuals but it isn’t as severe as if once was. I have nothing against the LGBTQ community nor do I have a problem with homosexuals. It’s just my honest feelings.

Have you considered why you felt this way or what was causing those feelings or just dismissed it as a totally inexplicable instinctive/unconscious response