Can Homophobia Be Justified?

[Daarwyrth]

There's a few homosexuals I respect because of their achievements such as Alan Turing and vehemently disagree with the UK government in instituting trangender procedure on the poor man. But at the end of the day homosexuals are not allowed on our nation because all of the other baggage they bring along with them, their nature, etc. The reasoning of which I already explained earlier in the thread.
If there is a country which does not forcibly femminize them I would send them there instead. Any ex pats are all going to be paid by the national endowment of democracy to spread falsehoods about our nation anyways so it doesn't matter what their opinions are. Maybe people would wisen up if they saw the cruise liner the gays walked off of.

Stop replying in an IC manner. This is an OOC thread.

It's a ploy to avoid the consequences for expressing their opinion. They must think that if they reply ICly, somehow their homophobia will be fine and tolerated. However, their motivations are entirely transparent and easy to discern. They want to bait someone into a reply and then start a shitshow.

[Celritannia]

No.
It really is as simple as that.

Also, for the few who are arguing "marriage is between a man and a woman, because tradition", well, marrying for love is recent, and not all marriages are Christian anyway.
Even overall marriage is quite new, in terms of human society and existence.

[Goatmoon]

Also , what's up with the majority of gays subscribing to Marxist/Communist beliefs? Maybe if you were more like Frederick The Great, Ernst Röhm, or Jack Donovan, less people would have complaints.

Excuse me can you stop randomly throwing shitty opinions around and then refusing to answer to those who answer to you? Cause this seems like you're just here to bait people otherwise.

No, I'll say what I want, and respond to whom I feel like, go cry about it somewhere else.

[The New California Republic]

Excuse me can you stop randomly throwing shitty opinions around and then refusing to answer to those who answer to you? Cause this seems like you're just here to bait people otherwise.

No, I'll say what I want, and respond to whom I feel like, go cry about it somewhere else.

if you want to make shit up and folk to dismiss it out of hand then that's your prerogative I guess.

[The Black Forrest]

No.
It really is as simple as that.

Also, for the few who are arguing "marriage is between a man and a woman, because tradition", well, marrying for love is recent, and not all marriages are Christian anyway.
Even overall marriage is quite new, in terms of human society and existence.

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

[The Black Forrest]

Also , what's up with the majority of gays subscribing to Marxist/Communist beliefs? Maybe if you were more like Frederick The Great, Ernst Röhm, or Jack Donovan, less people would have complaints.

Nice non-sequitor. A little more effort and you would have had a better score.

[San Lumen]

No.
It really is as simple as that.

Also, for the few who are arguing "marriage is between a man and a woman, because tradition", well, marrying for love is recent, and not all marriages are Christian anyway.
Even overall marriage is quite new, in terms of human society and existence.

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

[New haven america]

No.
It really is as simple as that.

Also, for the few who are arguing "marriage is between a man and a woman, because tradition", well, marrying for love is recent, and not all marriages are Christian anyway.
Even overall marriage is quite new, in terms of human society and existence.

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

It did.

Egypt and Mesopotamia didn't really care about sexuality, Japan and Korea had openly LGBT leaders (And only started being homophobic after Western contact, to impress Western Nations), Greece was ok with gay men (But hated gay women), etc...

[The Black Forrest]

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

Before religion.....

[Nakena]

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

This^^

Also people in the ancient world had a different idea of it anyways than nowadays.

[New haven america]

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

This^^

Also people in the ancient world had a different idea of it anyways than nowadays.

For example, in Rome it wasn't gay if you were a giver but it was gay if you were taker.

Though, Rome was also a super sexually frustrated society, outright worshipping the male form but hating anyone who actually wanted to fuck men.

[Nakena]

This^^

Also people in the ancient world had a different idea of it anyways than nowadays.

For example, in Rome it wasn't gay if you were a giver but it was gay if you were taker.

Though, Rome was also a super sexually frustrated society, outright worshipping the male form but hating anyone who actually wanted to fuck men.

They also had big phallus as decorations in private homes. The so-called Secret Museum, Naples has various examples thereof. Many of which would be considered obscene or outright pornographic by modern standards.

[The New California Republic]

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

In Grotta dell’Addaura in Sicily there is cave art featuring possible homoerotic imagery, dating from ~11,000 BCE. That's the most ancient record of homosexuality that I can think of.

[SD_Film Artists]

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

~11,000 BCE. That's the most ancient record of homosexuality that I can think of.

Ian McKellen?

[The New California Republic]

~11,000 BCE. That's the most ancient record of homosexuality that I can think of.

Ian McKellen?

He's not that old.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Tradition is not a valid argument anyway. Pair bonding happened before religion. Homosexuality probably existed as well. We just don’t have the records.

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

[New haven america]

For example, in Rome it wasn't gay if you were a giver but it was gay if you were taker.

Though, Rome was also a super sexually frustrated society, outright worshipping the male form but hating anyone who actually wanted to fuck men.

They also had big phallus as decorations in private homes. The so-called Secret Museum, Naples has various examples thereof. Many of which would be considered obscene or outright pornographic by modern standards.

And yet they hated women and gay people while having giant penis statues, paintings, and decorations.

Truly a sexually healthy society.

[The New California Republic]

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

Given his extreme reaction to Hephaestion's death, the case for the pair of them being lovers is very strong.

[Nakena]

They also had big phallus as decorations in private homes. The so-called Secret Museum, Naples has various examples thereof. Many of which would be considered obscene or outright pornographic by modern standards.

And yet they hated women and gay people while having giant penis statues, paintings, and decorations.

Truly a sexually healthy society.

Yeah it was kinda patriachical too. The whole idea of the pater familias is from Rome.

[Nakena]

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

Given his extreme reaction to Hephaestion's death, the case for the pair of them being lovers is very strong.

Generally modern binary (homo, hetero, bi, etc) and conceptions ideas of sexuality and orientation cannot be always easily be applied to the ancients. Back then it was fairly normal to have both opposite and same-sex sexual and romantic relations.

[Kannap]

Excuse me can you stop randomly throwing shitty opinions around and then refusing to answer to those who answer to you? Cause this seems like you're just here to bait people otherwise.

No, I'll say what I want, and respond to whom I feel like, go cry about it somewhere else.

Sure, you have the right to say what you want, within limits of the forum rules of course. I'll ignore the irony of you whining about that person's response while telling them to go cry about it.

[Page]

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

As a bisexual guy, I always like to point out this possibility among historical figures, bi erasure is still a big problem. That said, I also have to acknowledge that in some cases like this, it may be that someone was gay but managed to do what had to be done to have an heir or keep up appearances, that was a thing too. I don't think we can really know, especially with someone from so long ago as Alexander.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

Given his extreme reaction to Hephaestion's death, the case for the pair of them being lovers is very strong.

Indeed, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. Though tbh even if they weren't lovers I still think Alexander would have reacted much the same way simply because of how long they'd known each other. If I lost some of my friends whom I've known for half my life I'd probably lose it a bit too.

[Celritannia]

We records of homosexuality going back thousands of years. Alexander the Great was gay.

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

He certainly loved conquering everything, and everyone

[Nakena]

Alexander had a wife and at least one legitimate child and probably some bastards along the way lol. You could make a case for him maybe being bisexual, but he was not a homosexual.

As a bisexual guy, I always like to point out this possibility among historical figures, bi erasure is still a big problem. That said, I also have to acknowledge that in some cases like this, it may be that someone was gay but managed to do what had to be done to have an heir or keep up appearances, that was a thing too. I don't think we can really know, especially with someone from so long ago as Alexander.

Nah. It was fairly normal back then to have same sex lovers in ancient greece. In fact it was considered as the real deal by some and the highest form of love and sex and what not.

That wasnt at all mutually exclusive with having simultanously families or relationship with females, marriages etc. It's perfectly likely Alexander had various same-sex lovers and as well was engaged to Roxanne and went with all of that. Bi-sexual? From modern view perhaps. But back then it was kinda business as usual.