Can Homophobia Be Justified?

[Istoreya]

you do realize gay people can have kids right

Yes i know they can adopt i'm not against that but they can't create new life naturally

Actually, yes they can. It's called surrogacy.

[Punished UMN]

LGBT rights organizations in these countries were actively attacking states in these places, including on issues unrelated to LGBT rights, long-before scapegoating started. Many of the organizations aren't just getting rhetorical support from the United States but also administrative and financial support, and many of these groups support sanctions on their government.

It's almost like LGBT people will attack states that think hanging and murdering LGBT people is legitimate. As for the US aid for them, you talk as if we're some sort of spy organisation, when said aid is similar to war-torn countries and aid for organisations meant for women's rights.

Yeah, and I'm saying that's still bad political strategy because such attacks legitimize political repression. States would be less inclined to persecute LGBT rights groups if those groups were supportive of the state and its political objectives, which are in fact not always motivated by simple prejudice.

[Punished UMN]

Actually Lebanon also had it get worse. Turkey and Tunisia got better, but those countries are gifted with a strong pro-democracy and pro-Western movement already, so there are broader institutional changes that can account for the change in attitudes. The Czech Republic also got dramatically worse (support for homosexual equality declined from 80% to 59%). There's not enough of a sample size for the whole region, so I will admit there's actually little evidence for any broad statement for much of the region (which is frustrating), but Lebanon is generally more representative of the majority of these countries than Tunisia (which has had two successful democratic revolutions since 2011) and Turkey (which has been a secular, democratic country since 1923).

Any...Proof to back up these claims?

It's literally in the graphs you provided.

[Wallenburg]

Actually Lebanon also had it get worse. Turkey and Tunisia got better, but those countries are gifted with a strong pro-democracy and pro-Western movement already, so there are broader institutional changes that can account for the change in attitudes.

Ah, yes, the famously democratic and freedom-loving state of Turkey.

[Nookville]

Says who?

God

not everyone believes in god. its foolish to base homophobia on religion when that really only applies to those following it, not those who don't. its similar to being mad at someone for eating certain food because you're on a diet.

[Novokria]

Yes i know they can adopt i'm not against that but they can't create new life naturally

....so? Wtf do you have against adopted children?

I have nothing against them lol

[Punished UMN]

Actually Lebanon also had it get worse. Turkey and Tunisia got better, but those countries are gifted with a strong pro-democracy and pro-Western movement already, so there are broader institutional changes that can account for the change in attitudes.

Ah, yes, the famously democratic and freedom-loving state of Turkey.

The second largest Party in Turkey is a Social-Democratic Party, founded by the greatest Turkish national hero, and controls large parts of the country electorally. Turkey has experienced democratic backsliding in the last twenty years, but that doesn't mean it still doesn't have a large pro-democracy and pro-Western movement that is indigenous to the country and has a long history within the country.

[Istoreya]

....so? Wtf do you have against adopted children?

I have nothing against them lol

But why should their parents not be married?

[Necroghastia]

you do realize gay people can have kids right

Yes i know they can adopt i'm not against that but they can't create new life naturally

wrong
cis/trans gay couples can
surrogacy also exists

[Rapperland]

what is surrogacy

[Genivaria]

....so? Wtf do you have against adopted children?

I have nothing against them lol

So what does 'they can't create new life naturally 'have to do with anything?

[San Lumen]

Rubbish. The president cannot make law.

Why shouldn't same sex marriage be called as such?

People can call it what they want and try to pretend homosexual partnerships are marriages all they want but for the Church marriage according to Holy, Scripture, Holy Tradition and natural law is between One Man, and One Woman within the church. To us, Holy Marriage is a Sacrament and not merely another relationship status. All partnerships outside of the Church aren't considered marriages since it lacks the Sacrament done by in the Church by a Cleric. The Church doesn't consider any partnerships outside of Christian Orthodoxy as marriages, Straight, Homosexual or even those done by protestant "churches". We do recognize the sacramental validity of the Roman Catholic Church including marriages and allow marriages between Orthodox and Catholics even though we're not in communion with the Roman Church. Outside of the Church marriages don't exist no matter what they call their partnerships and that won't change. We can't stop them from using the term marriages for their partnerships, but on the flip side they can't stop us from seeing marriage only as a Holy Sacrament (One of the seven sacraments in Christian Orthodoxy).

It is also important to separate homosexual attraction from those who put their entire identity in homosexuality. We understand people may have attraction to those of the same sex, unlike those protestant fundamentalists we don't say they "go to hell". We do believe that acting on those attractions puts the immortal soul in danger of condemnation at the last judgement but repentance is for all who seek it. Christian Orthodoxy's as much a lifestyle than it is a faith and living a life of morality and prayer is a key part of it for people of the opposite sex as much as the same sex attracted.
We don't consider it homophobic since it's not an irrational fear (Phobia means an irrational fear) rather our doctrine and dogmas teaches clearly on such topics and we consider it an act of mercy to sometimes say the hard truth. I could put a post to summarize Orthodox theology on the next Christian discussion forum but simply put while we recognize the importance of Faith and works for accepting the gift of salvation we recognize the mysteries of God's plan and how we cannot know if people saved on this side of eternity thus we are charged to pray for those fallen asleep.

Really the definition of marriage is a voluntary choice not always based on homophobia so trying to shut all disagreements down with so called "Hate Speech" won't end well for you. (Islam also has similar views so would you be Islamophobic trying to force your culture on them?) Really if you want a multicultural county less government mandated views and more voluntary participation is the best way to go. Government should keep the peace whenever needed, and act like a referee and ensure things remain fair. Beyond that a multicultural society would exist with a bunch of cultural parallel Polaris morality structures based on voluntary participation. If the left really wants to destroy their own activism than good luck trying to force other cultures like those based on Islam to accept it without being Islamophobic

Its a not a lifestyle as its not a choice.

What are you suggesting that LGBT should live a completely sterile and lonely life never marrying or engaging in relations?

[Genivaria]

what is surrogacy

When a woman outside of the relationship willingly acts as the birther for the child.

[Genivaria]

-doublepost

[Rapperland]

what is surrogacy

When a woman outside of the relationship willingly acts as the birther for the child.

ayyo why would do dat????

[Istoreya]

When a woman outside of the relationship willingly acts as the birther for the child.

ayyo why would do dat????

To help people have children?

[Gongsi]

Then we shall change the definition because words can change meaning. Also, marriage is available to infertile straight couples.

Well i don't really support infertile straights marrying that is not right they should also just have civil unions

Marriage being tied to procreation, in almost every case I have seen, comes from a purely religious standpoint. And if this discussion is happening in the context of the US, one of its core principles is to not suppress its citizens for the sake of a religious sect's views. If you want to argue that America should be completely overhauled as a Christian Theocracy, that's a different discussion, but as it stands Marriage does not have any legal precedence for being tied to procreation.

The concept of marriage is not exclusive to Christians/Abrahamic faiths. Heck, there are some communities in Tibet that culturally practice Polyandry (one wife, multiple husbands). The US is not longer a Western European, Christian country. It is an amalgam of cultures, practices, beliefs, and ethnicities.

Still, you may hold whatever beliefs you want about marriage/homosexuality. But if your viewpoint is coming from a Christian perspective and you want to push it upon others then I suggest reading the New Testament. It is laid out, time and time again, that you are not to enforce your beliefs onto others who are not of your faith. It is only Christian traditionalism and culturalism that persecutes others, it was never part of Christ's doctrine.

The Christian argument for criminalizing homosexual marriage is grounded neither in the principles of the nation nor the principles of Christ.

Also, if marriage is only supposed to be for procreation, and infertile/sterile couples should not be married, should Abraham and Sarah not have been married? She was infertile, after all, and was only given children after ten years and divine intervention. She could not create new life naturally. Is she as condemned as a homosexual (in relation to marriage)?

[Novokria]

I have nothing against them lol

But why should their parents not be married?

Its just not right to call it marriage when its between two men like i support gays having the same rights as straight couples but it just feels wrong calling it a marriage

[Genivaria]

When a woman outside of the relationship willingly acts as the birther for the child.

ayyo why would do dat????

This may come as a surprise but some people actually want kids.
Idk why honestly.

[Istoreya]

But why should their parents not be married?

Its just not right to call it marriage when its between two men like i support gays having the same rights as straight couples but it just feels wrong calling it a marriage

Why is it not right to call it a marriage?

[The New California Republic]

But why should their parents not be married?

Its just not right to call it marriage when its between two men like i support gays having the same rights as straight couples but it just feels wrong calling it a marriage

Sorry but gonna need a better explanation than that.

[The Alma Mater]

Says who?

God

Really ? Where in the Bible is this written ?
I will help you: it isn't. And as said, marriage is not Christian anyway; so the christian opinion on it is moot.

[Senkaku]

It's almost like LGBT people will attack states that think hanging and murdering LGBT people is legitimate. As for the US aid for them, you talk as if we're some sort of spy organisation, when said aid is similar to war-torn countries and aid for organisations meant for women's rights.

Yeah, and I'm saying that's still bad political strategy because such attacks legitimize political repression. States would be less inclined to persecute LGBT rights groups if those groups were supportive of the state and its political objectives, which are in fact not always motivated by simple prejudice.

Yes, if gay people just stopped complaining about being persecuted, everyone would stop persecuting them! Why has no one thought of this, we should tell the Rohingya and the Uyghurs to try it too!

[Genivaria]

But why should their parents not be married?

Its just not right to call it marriage when its between two men like i support gays having the same rights as straight couples but it just feels wrong calling it a marriage

Why?
Provide something other than your personal preference.

[Esalia]

But why should their parents not be married?

Its just not right to call it marriage when its between two men like i support gays having the same rights as straight couples but it just feels wrong calling it a marriage

Too bad.