Can Homophobia Be Justified?

[Caraani]

I just checked, and, as common sense dictated, what you said is impossible. There were four patriarchs in Romania during the period of the Socialist Republic. The first one was there before 1945, and remained there for three years, and the fourth one was there for decades after it fell. So, I don't know which patriarch of Romania that was an ally of the Communist Party long before they took power, you're talking about.

Lmfaooooo “I’m not sure who you mean, therefore it’s impossible”

Lmfaoooooo, you got everything I said wrong and ignored the part where I literally fact checked what he said and it turned out what he said was impossible, because the Socialist Republic of Romania existed between 1945 and 1989 and Patriarchs are usually selected when they're already old and it is literally impossible for Romania to have had a Patriarch that lasted from before the socialist period all the way to at the very least 1989 Lmfaoooo

[Necroghastia]

Says who?

God

where?

[Odreria]

It's simple, the LGBTQ community and their central tenets/lifestyle is perfectly fine. The Lord doesn't make mistakes, so these people are meant to be who they are. There is no bible verse that outlaws homosexuality. The infamous Leviticus verse is a reference to the Canaanite tradition of orgies, these orgies were the same thing that cause the Lord to destroy Sodom with fire and brimstone. The Canaanites were the spiritual and political enemies of the Israelite's, God's people, so what they did became un-Godly.

Now if you want to look at this issue through a secular scope, then let's discuss anthropological and sociological explanations. Modern Sociologists actually think that in order for our society to thrive, there should be heterogeneity in sexual orientation. This is a common occurrence in nature, therefore, it is natural.

Thanks,
Eirkaunas

Who tf are you

[The Universal Hegemony]

Anybody can justify anything they want.

While true, that does not mean their justification attempts are valid and should hold any kind of weight in the overall operation of society.

Of course! I was just taking issue with the title.

[Istoreya]

Says who?

God

Sorry, try again. Please enter the name of a person who objectively exists.

[Daarwyrth]

Rubbish. The president cannot make law.

Why shouldnt same sex marriage be called as such?

Because intended for Marriage to between a Man and a Woman to create new life and Homosexuals can't create new life so it's against the definition of Marriage

Marriage is a social construct that humans have defined. It is not a law of nature, it is not a law of physics, it is a social agreement that we have established, and can redefine whenever we want. The concept of marriage is NOT set in stone and will never be. As such, the definition can easily be changed to "marriage is a union between two humans". And if in the future aliens will walk upon our planet, we can change it to "union between two sentient living beings".

It's something that people seem to forget: everything in society is a social agreement. We have negotiated a definition of marriage, we can easily renegotiate it at any time to find a newer, better, more fair definition.

[Novokria]

Well i don't really support infertile straights marrying that is not right they should also just have civil unions

so unless one intents to or can have children they shouldnt be allowed to marry?

Yes

[Istoreya]

so unless one intents to or can have children they shouldnt be allowed to marry?

Yes

No

[Necroghastia]

so unless one intents to or can have children they shouldnt be allowed to marry?

Yes

you do realize gay people can have kids right

[Genivaria]

so unless one intents to or can have children they shouldnt be allowed to marry?

Yes

Oof, good luck actually defending this shitty position.

[Caraani]

No. The issue that the movement has faced is that, because the west has moved forward with this issue, in states that are actively opposing western states, such as the US, with which I don't disagree, since the US has been terrible, especially in the middle east - then said states find an easy scapegoat in the LGBT community and the movement, especially as some of those states are moving towards a more conciliatory tone towards the spawn of satan Israel, and it's right to exist as a country. In short, blaming the jew/israeli can not be moved to blaming the gay. And since Homosexuality isn't actually an ideology, and the west has only recently decided we're actual human beings, no state will take drastic measures to defend us. So we're an easy target. It's not that LGBT issues have taken some political sides, it's that LGBT issues have been politicised by those states in order to score political points and increase stability and the popularity of the regime by targeting us - which is what Russia did after it's economy took a nose dive following Crimea. Russians didn't magically start being homophobic, but the state helped them in their homophobia when it started targetting us and naming us "western agents", galvanising the masses against us and turning them away from the economic disaster that were the sanctions.

LGBT rights organizations in these countries were actively attacking states in these places, including on issues unrelated to LGBT rights, long-before scapegoating started. Many of the organizations aren't just getting rhetorical support from the United States but also administrative and financial support, and many of these groups support sanctions on their government.

It's almost like LGBT people will attack states that think hanging and murdering LGBT people is legitimate. As for the US aid for them, you talk as if we're some sort of spy organisation, when said aid is similar to war-torn countries and aid for organisations meant for women's rights.

[Istoreya]

Yes

you do realize gay people can have kids right

Given they've already stated being in favour of gay adoption, I don't know what angle they are trying to take here.

[San Lumen]

Says who?

God

Im gay and I believe in God. Where does the Bible say the lord didnt intend for LGBT or those who dont have or can't produce children not be married?

[Punished UMN]

Wrong:

2013 - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/06/2013-Homosexuality-05.png
2019 - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/PG_2020.06.25_Global-Views-Homosexuality_0-04.png?w=398

Only Russia results slightly more homophobic, I will give you that. The rest seem to have increased. As I said, there aren't many countries where it has diminished, but there are some. My point still stands.

Actually Lebanon also had it get worse. Turkey and Tunisia got better, but those countries are gifted with a strong pro-democracy and pro-Western movement already, so there are broader institutional changes that can account for the change in attitudes. The Czech Republic also got dramatically worse (support for homosexual equality declined from 80% to 59%). There's not enough of a sample size for the whole region, so I will admit there's actually little evidence for any broad statement for much of the region (which is frustrating), but Lebanon is generally more representative of the majority of these countries than Tunisia (which has had two successful democratic revolutions since 2011) and Turkey (which has been a secular, democratic country since 1923).

[Caraani]

It's simple, the LGBTQ community and their central tenets/lifestyle is perfectly fine. The Lord doesn't make mistakes, so these people are meant to be who they are. There is no bible verse that outlaws homosexuality. The infamous Leviticus verse is a reference to the Canaanite tradition of orgies, these orgies were the same thing that cause the Lord to destroy Sodom with fire and brimstone. The Canaanites were the spiritual and political enemies of the Israelite's, God's people, so what they did became un-Godly.

Now if you want to look at this issue through a secular scope, then let's discuss anthropological and sociological explanations. Modern Sociologists actually think that in order for our society to thrive, there should be heterogeneity in sexual orientation. This is a common occurrence in nature, therefore, it is natural.

Thanks,
Eirkaunas

Who tf are you

Sorry, I haven't been around NationStates in a few years, how do I log a report for trolling again?

[Esalia]

Says who?

God

If god cares so much about the definition of marriage, perhaps he should come down and correct us all himself.

[San Lumen]

so unless one intents to or can have children they shouldnt be allowed to marry?

Yes

Why not?

[Rapperland]

God

If god cares so much about the definition of marriage, perhaps he should come down and correct us all himself.

it's already happening

[SimTropican]

Well the last few years has shown America can change just like that so anything is possible in 2021 America and Biden seems like the sort of person to try and takeover and create a new constitution

Rubbish. The president cannot make law.

Why shouldn't same sex marriage be called as such?

People can call it what they want and try to pretend homosexual partnerships are marriages all they want but for the Church marriage according to Holy, Scripture, Holy Tradition and natural law is between One Man, and One Woman within the church. To us, Holy Marriage is a Sacrament and not merely another relationship status. All partnerships outside of the Church aren't considered marriages since it lacks the Sacrament done by in the Church by a Cleric. The Church doesn't consider any partnerships outside of Christian Orthodoxy as marriages, Straight, Homosexual or even those done by protestant "churches". We do recognize the sacramental validity of the Roman Catholic Church including marriages and allow marriages between Orthodox and Catholics even though we're not in communion with the Roman Church. Outside of the Church marriages don't exist no matter what they call their partnerships and that won't change. We can't stop them from using the term marriages for their partnerships, but on the flip side they can't stop us from seeing marriage only as a Holy Sacrament (One of the seven sacraments in Christian Orthodoxy).

It is also important to separate homosexual attraction from those who put their entire identity in homosexuality. We understand people may have attraction to those of the same sex, unlike those protestant fundamentalists we don't say they "go to hell". We do believe that acting on those attractions puts the immortal soul in danger of condemnation at the last judgement but repentance is for all who seek it. Christian Orthodoxy's as much a lifestyle than it is a faith and living a life of morality and prayer is a key part of it for people of the opposite sex as much as the same sex attracted.
We don't consider it homophobic since it's not an irrational fear (Phobia means an irrational fear) rather our doctrine and dogmas teaches clearly on such topics and we consider it an act of mercy to sometimes say the hard truth. I could put a post to summarize Orthodox theology on the next Christian discussion forum but simply put while we recognize the importance of Faith and works for accepting the gift of salvation we recognize the mysteries of God's plan and how we cannot know if people saved on this side of eternity thus we are charged to pray for those fallen asleep.

Really the definition of marriage is a voluntary choice not always based on homophobia so trying to shut all disagreements down with so called "Hate Speech" won't end well for you. (Islam also has similar views so would you be Islamophobic trying to force your culture on them?) Really if you want a multicultural county less government mandated views and more voluntary participation is the best way to go. Government should keep the peace whenever needed, and act like a referee and ensure things remain fair. Beyond that a multicultural society would exist with a bunch of cultural parallel Polaris morality structures based on voluntary participation. If the left really wants to destroy their own activism than good luck trying to force other cultures like those based on Islam to accept it without being Islamophobic

[Novokria]

Yes

you do realize gay people can have kids right

Yes i know they can adopt i'm not against that but they can't create new life naturally

[Caraani]

2013 - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/06/2013-Homosexuality-05.png
2019 - https://www.pewresearch.org/global/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/06/PG_2020.06.25_Global-Views-Homosexuality_0-04.png?w=398

Only Russia results slightly more homophobic, I will give you that. The rest seem to have increased. As I said, there aren't many countries where it has diminished, but there are some. My point still stands.

Actually Lebanon also had it get worse. Turkey and Tunisia got better, but those countries are gifted with a strong pro-democracy and pro-Western movement already, so there are broader institutional changes that can account for the change in attitudes. The Czech Republic also got dramatically worse (support for homosexual equality declined from 80% to 59%). There's not enough of a sample size for the whole region, so I will admit there's actually little evidence for any broad statement for much of the region (which is frustrating), but Lebanon is generally more representative of the majority of these countries than Tunisia (which has had two successful democratic revolutions since 2011) and Turkey (which has been a secular, democratic country since 1923).

Any...Proof to back up these claims?

[Istoreya]

Who tf are you

Sorry, I haven't been around NationStates in a few years, how do I log a report for trolling again?

Use moderation forum. There's already a thread up for reports going on in this thread. Just drop a quote and the mods will decide if it's actionable or not.

[Esalia]

If god cares so much about the definition of marriage, perhaps he should come down and correct us all himself.

it's already happening

Then I will gladly wait for God to get around to telling the Brits the true definition of marriage.

Until then, marriage is a word we invented, and as such we get to define it how we want.

[Genivaria]

you do realize gay people can have kids right

Yes i know they can adopt i'm not against that but they can't create new life naturally

....so? Wtf do you have against adopted children?

[Crilland]

Homophobia can never be justified. You don't have to like every gay person, but nobody should have anything against them for being gay.

This.

My house has been burgled multiple times - all by members of the same ethnic group.

However I have many friends from that same ethnic group and it has not led to me justifying racism.

that is terrible! I wish I could Help You but i live i ny and you might be across the world or the country or the continent.