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Can Homophobia Be Justified?

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Novokria
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Posts: 111
Founded: Feb 17, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Novokria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:03 am

Istoreya wrote:
Novokria wrote:No you can not hate the Homosexuals because they are your fellow Humans God does not teach hatred against your fellow Humans he teaches Salvation for all.


We most work for God not against him.

Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people
America & Russia are two sides of the same poisonous coin

Zelensky is just another puppet of the Satanic American Imperialist Government

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:04 am

Novokria wrote:
Istoreya wrote:Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
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You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
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Istoreya
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Istoreya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:05 am

Novokria wrote:
Istoreya wrote:Your signature says you are against gay marriage...

Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

You are against gay people having the same rights that straight people have, therefore you are against them as you do not believe them to be deserving of civil rights.

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Caraani
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Posts: 1606
Founded: Oct 26, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Caraani » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Caraani wrote:The fact that they're legal constructs doesn't make them any less valid. The rest of the world doesn't exist in a vacuum. Countries cannot pretend to be modern and developed when they adopt the technologies necessary to be developed but maintain ideologies from the Bronze Age. Our advancement isn't in a vacuum either. As we urbanised and made technological advancements we understood that things like infanticide, rape, slavery are wrong. Slavery was wrong any time, all the time, it's just that some parts of the world stopped justifying it before others. At that point slavery didn't stop being wrong only in those parts of the world, it continued to be wrong everywhere. Likewise, if the Western World now understands that homosexuals should be left to live like the tax-paying citizens that they are, that doesn't mean that only in the West is it ok to be gay, but in other parts of the world it is still ok to stone gays. It's wrong here, and it's wrong there. They just have to catch up.

So by what mechanism do we "discover" these objectively existing rights? Morality is not and never will be a science.

We "discover" them by the same mechanism that made us gather in large vertical blocks of concrete where we either sleep on soft beds or sit in such an unnatural manner to the point it literally messes up with our bodies - on chairs, staring into squares that emit light and typing away virtual letters on websites. It isn't that it is objectively existing, we have created and adapted to this way of living that we define as modern; and in it, we don't need men to die at the age of 20 in wars, women to breed and pump out more future soldiers for tribal conquests, and we don't need to kill gays because of what they're doing. We have adapted our morality to our way of life.
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:06 am

Ifreann wrote:
Novokria wrote:Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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Novokria
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Posts: 111
Founded: Feb 17, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Novokria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 am

Ifreann wrote:
Novokria wrote:Yes but i'm not against Homosexual people

If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God
America & Russia are two sides of the same poisonous coin

Zelensky is just another puppet of the Satanic American Imperialist Government

America is like the Cookie Monster but with Oil not Cookies

Svoboda, Ultra-Nationalism, Orthodox Christianity, Azov, Stepan Bandera, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine
Russia, Zelensky, Poland, Islam, Judaism, Communism, America, Multiculturalism, Democracy, Gay Marriage and Germany

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Caraani
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Posts: 1606
Founded: Oct 26, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Caraani » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:08 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Caraani wrote:Human rights aren't "western thought" - and the sooner some parts of the world understand this the faster we can move on from a Eurocentric world.

As soon as the rest of the world adopts European standards of thought we can move on from a eurocentric world?

Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?
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Future writer and publisher of Fifty Shades of Empire
I support insanely high tax rates, do you?
"Have you ever noticed when you're driving that anyone who's driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?!" - George Carlin

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Grenartia
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Founded: Feb 14, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:08 am

Punished UMN wrote:
Caraani wrote:Are human rights different based on a person's location?

Certainly, because they're social constructs.


Guess that means slavery is A-OK if you live in a place where the local shitheads in charge think owning people is really swell.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am

Caraani wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:As soon as the rest of the world adopts European standards of thought we can move on from a eurocentric world?

Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?

Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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Istoreya
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Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Istoreya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.

This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?

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Imperial Kaiserreich Germany
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Posts: 1
Founded: Feb 09, 2021
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Imperial Kaiserreich Germany » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am

Molither wrote:Nope. I could never see it as justifiable to discriminate against people like me or view me less based on our sexuality.

Agreed. Burn them at the stake

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Istoreya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 862
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Istoreya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:09 am

Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Yeah, you see the problem with that is not everyone believes in God and your beliefs should not impact how other people live their lives.

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Caraani
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Founded: Oct 26, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Caraani » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am

Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?
For: Things I say
Against: Things YOU say
Future writer and publisher of Fifty Shades of Empire
I support insanely high tax rates, do you?
"Have you ever noticed when you're driving that anyone who's driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?!" - George Carlin

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143963
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am

Novokria wrote:
Ifreann wrote:If you want people treated unequally in society, you are against them.

Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

It is homophobic to want to deny gay people equality in society, regardless of why you want to do that.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Punished UMN
Minister
 
Posts: 2772
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:10 am

Grenartia wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Certainly, because they're social constructs.


Guess that means slavery is A-OK if you live in a place where the local shitheads in charge think owning people is really swell.

I would say it's morally wrong but that doesn't mean anybody will do anything about it.
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Ethel mermania
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Posts: 111818
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am

Istoreya wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:We treat the handicapped differently, we are not against them.

This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?


The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Punished UMN
Minister
 
Posts: 2772
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:11 am

Caraani wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:So by what mechanism do we "discover" these objectively existing rights? Morality is not and never will be a science.

We "discover" them by the same mechanism that made us gather in large vertical blocks of concrete where we either sleep on soft beds or sit in such an unnatural manner to the point it literally messes up with our bodies - on chairs, staring into squares that emit light and typing away virtual letters on websites. It isn't that it is objectively existing, we have created and adapted to this way of living that we define as modern; and in it, we don't need men to die at the age of 20 in wars, women to breed and pump out more future soldiers for tribal conquests, and we don't need to kill gays because of what they're doing. We have adapted our morality to our way of life.

This is just you having failed to make the is/ought distinction.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize

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Istoreya
Diplomat
 
Posts: 862
Founded: Dec 13, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Istoreya » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Istoreya wrote:This is nothing to do with it. We treat handicapped people differently because they require it. A person in a wheelchair cannot use stairs, we must treat them differently to provide them with the same opportunities as able-bodied people. There is no way you can reasonably apply that to this situation. Gay people have no 'need' to be denied the right to marry?


The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.

It's nothing to do with treating people differently. It's to do with denying people equal opportunities.

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 111818
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am

Caraani wrote:
Novokria wrote:Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

105 years ago we would have been the weirdos advocating gay marriage.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Caraani
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1606
Founded: Oct 26, 2012
New York Times Democracy

Postby Caraani » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Caraani wrote:Is the idea of women being allowed to control their own bodies, vote and work an European standard?

Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.

I personally don't think so - but if it is, then I'm all for actively imposing it on other parts of the world. Some ideas simply are better than others, and your >insert adjective of culture, region or country here< intolerance isn't even remotely equal to my, apparently European tolerance. We don't need to tolerate intolerance.
For: Things I say
Against: Things YOU say
Future writer and publisher of Fifty Shades of Empire
I support insanely high tax rates, do you?
"Have you ever noticed when you're driving that anyone who's driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?!" - George Carlin

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Novokria
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 111
Founded: Feb 17, 2021
Ex-Nation

Postby Novokria » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:12 am

Caraani wrote:
Novokria wrote:Marriage is between a Man and a Woman this is not to be Changed we can give Homosexuals respect and tolerance but we should not work against God

Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.
America & Russia are two sides of the same poisonous coin

Zelensky is just another puppet of the Satanic American Imperialist Government

America is like the Cookie Monster but with Oil not Cookies

Svoboda, Ultra-Nationalism, Orthodox Christianity, Azov, Stepan Bandera, Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine
Russia, Zelensky, Poland, Islam, Judaism, Communism, America, Multiculturalism, Democracy, Gay Marriage and Germany

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Ethel mermania
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 111818
Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am

Istoreya wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:
The statement was if we treat people differently we must be against them. I disagree with that. We also treat the young and elderly differently. I am ok with that too, and I like kids and old people.

It's nothing to do with treating people differently. It's to do with denying people equal opportunities.

We deny children the right to marriage, the right to vote, the right to sign a contract.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilont ... ilizations

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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 143963
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am

Novokria wrote:
Caraani wrote:Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.

Tough shit, they are called marriage and they happen wherever the people involved want.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Punished UMN
Minister
 
Posts: 2772
Founded: Jul 05, 2020
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Punished UMN » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 am

Caraani wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Yes. I support it mind you, but I am a westerner.

I personally don't think so - but if it is, then I'm all for actively imposing it on other parts of the world. Some ideas simply are better than others, and your >insert adjective of culture, region or country here< intolerance isn't even remotely equal to my, apparently European tolerance. We don't need to tolerate intolerance.

And this is why the movement is failing.
Still lurking in the community, but don't expect much engagement.
Rawlsian socialist and Constitutional Monarchist. Absolute pacifist. Proud member of the Napoleon Bonaparte fandom.
I have borderline personality disorder, if I overreact to something, try to approach me after the fact and I'll apologize

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San Lumen
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56339
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby San Lumen » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:15 am

Novokria wrote:
Caraani wrote:Those are some majestic mental gymnastics. You do know that civil unions exist, don't you?

Yes i support civil unions but it should not be called a Marriage and should definitely not happen in a Church.


Who are you to make that decision? Why shouldnt it be called a marriage or be allowed to happen in a church? Religious institutions have the right to refuse same sex marriage.

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