What has Israel ever done for us?

[Atheris]

Actually, you (Americans) are in Afghanistan because you had the great idea of creating militant Islamic fundies back in the '80s.
As for Syria, you're there because Turkey and Saudi Arabia want you there.

What kind of historical revisionism is this lol. If anyone created militant Islamic fundies it was al-Otaybi when he took over Mecca. While his revolt failed it normalized hardline fundamentalism because the monarchy didn't want to fight them and found it easier to give them power.

Really? I'd say militant Islamic fundies can be traced back to the Rashidun Caliphate and maybe even earlier.

[Insaanistan]

What kind of historical revisionism is this lol. If anyone created militant Islamic fundies it was al-Otaybi when he took over Mecca. While his revolt failed it normalized hardline fundamentalism because the monarchy didn't want to fight them and found it easier to give them power.

Really? I'd say militant Islamic fundies can be traced back to the Rashidun Caliphate and maybe even earlier.

Yeah, no.

[East Blepia]

It's a place we park our planes for our middle east wars. Think of it as like one giant air force base.

We do not have a single air base in Israel. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U ... tary_bases the only American installation there is a radar facility.

[Washington Resistance Army]

What kind of historical revisionism is this lol. If anyone created militant Islamic fundies it was al-Otaybi when he took over Mecca. While his revolt failed it normalized hardline fundamentalism because the monarchy didn't want to fight them and found it easier to give them power.

Really? I'd say militant Islamic fundies can be traced back to the Rashidun Caliphate.

Well, yeah, but when most people use the term they're usually talking about modern militant Wahhabi Muslims, who very much only gained prevalence because of the Saudi monarchy choosing to coddle them.

[East Blepia]

they built the aqueducts

I have no idea what you are talking about. There are no aqueducts in Israel. I checked.

[Punished UMN]

they built the aqueducts

I have no idea what you are talking about. There are no aqueducts in Israel. I checked.

Monty Python reference because the thread title is almost verbatim a line from one of their movies.

[Atheris]

Really? I'd say militant Islamic fundies can be traced back to the Rashidun Caliphate.

Well, yeah, but when most people use the term they're usually talking about modern militant Wahhabi Muslims, who very much only gained prevalence because of the Saudi monarchy choosing to coddle them.

It was a joke.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Must it do something for us in order for it be able to exist as a state? Nope.

[East Blepia]

Must it do something for us in order for it be able to exist as a state? Nope.

No, but foreign relations are transactional. We are not living in a post-scarcity world, especially when we have over twenty trillion dollars in outstanding debt. If we are to be its ally and do so much for it as we do, we must expect something in return.

[Neutraligon]

Must it do something for us in order for it be able to exist as a state? Nope.

No, but foreign relations are transactional. We are not living in a post-scarcity world, especially when we have over twenty trillion dollars in outstanding debt. If we are to be its ally and do so much for it as we do, we must expect something in return.

Much of our interactions with Israel have to deal with pandering to the religious right.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Must it do something for us in order for it be able to exist as a state? Nope.

No, but foreign relations are transactional. We are not living in a post-scarcity world, especially when we have over twenty trillion dollars in outstanding debt. If we are to be its ally and do so much for it as we do, we must expect something in return.

The US uses it as a docking point for its military in the area so it is giving something at least.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

This is a legitimate inquiry. Virtually the whole body of our (American) foreign policy in the Middle East, i.e. towards over one billion Muslims, is based on the interests of Israel. We have even recently recognized Moroccan sovereignty over the Western Sahara, the same issue over which they were made to leave the African Union, in exchange for their recognition of Israel. All of the Iran nonsense over the past years would not have been a blip on our radar were it not for our ties and action on behalf of Israel. We would not need to be in Afghanistan, or Iraq, or Syria, if it were not for the flaming resentment these Islamic extremists hold for us due to our incessant support for Israel.

Therefore why should an American politician, whose first interest in foreign policy was America, and not some other goal or allegiance, wish to remain so aligned to Israel as we are?

Israel is inherently valuable as a tech center.

[East Blepia]

Much of our interactions with Israel have to deal with pandering to the religious right.

Yes, but I would say that it goes beyond the religious right. I would consider myself a member of the religious right, albeit a rather abnormal one, and I am totally opposed to the existence of Israel. Most Christians believe that Jews were replaced as the 'chosen people' when the Old Covenant was superseded by the New Covenant. Therefore a large part of our seemingly free-of-charge assistance to Israel can be blamed on the influence of AIPAC and similar organizations. (See also the 'AIPAC napkin' - an AIPAC official remarked that he could have the signatures of 70 senators on a napkin in 24 hours. The influence of these organizations is immense.)

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Really? I'd say militant Islamic fundies can be traced back to the Rashidun Caliphate.

Well, yeah, but when most people use the term they're usually talking about modern militant Wahhabi Muslims, who very much only gained prevalence because of the Saudi monarchy choosing to coddle them.

You’re quite liberal with the word "choose." The monarchy is by no means choosing to do so, but is forced into it, an after effect of the 1979 siege of Mecca and its aftereffects. Based on what we saw in Mecca, it’s likely the Sauds would’ve gone the way of the Pahlavis if they didn’t start pandering to the Imams

[East Blepia]

The US uses it as a docking point for its military in the area so it is giving something at least.

As I said earlier, the only military facility we have in Israel is a radar station.

[East Blepia]

Israel is inherently valuable as a tech center.

Hardly a reason to base our entire Middle East policy on its interests.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

The US uses it as a docking point for its military in the area so it is giving something at least.

As I said earlier, the only military facility we have in Israel is a radar station.

And? It’s there. Israel can very well not allow it in their soil.

I do find the OP question strange. Does a country need to forcefully do something for the benefit of another for it to have value or something?

[Alcala-Cordel]

Israel helps the United States manage its influence over the Middle East, and giving them weapons is good for the military-industrial complex

We have plenty of allies in the Middle East already.

* We have bases in Syria (via our alliance with some of the warring factions there)

* We are still militarily present in Iraq and Afghanistan

* We are allied to, and have bases in Turkey

* We have a large presence in Kuwait

* We have a naval base in Bahrain

* We have assorted presences in several other Middle Eastern states

Of course, but the more we overdo it the more money weapons manufacturers make.

There are more countries in the middle east in which American forces are present than not.

Giving military aid to Israel, and thus causing the production of weapons, is beneficial to the military industrial complex, it is true. But we must consider that this money could be used for much more constructive purposes, or used to furnish our $20 trillion in debt.

Of course, there's so much we could do with our bloated military budget. The problem is we'd rather kill people and destroy stuff in the Middle East. I agree with you, Israel and military-industrialism are horrible.

[East Blepia]

As I said earlier, the only military facility we have in Israel is a radar station.

And? It’s there. Israel can very well not allow it in their soil.

I do find the OP question strange. Does a country need to forcefully do something for the benefit of another for it to have value or something?

I am not saying that Israel must serve the United States in order to exist as a country. I am saying that given our immense contributions and involvement on its behalf, it is very strange indeed that we have received nothing in return.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

And? It’s there. Israel can very well not allow it in their soil.

I do find the OP question strange. Does a country need to forcefully do something for the benefit of another for it to have value or something?

I am not saying that Israel must serve the United States in order to exist as a country. I am saying that given our immense contributions and involvement on its behalf, it is very strange indeed that we have received nothing in return.

I just read your sig and I detect contradiction in your stance. Which is which?

Also, the US can very well not involve itself or contribute on Israel’s behalf. Too much protesting.

[Neutraligon]

Much of our interactions with Israel have to deal with pandering to the religious right.

Yes, but I would say that it goes beyond the religious right. I would consider myself a member of the religious right, albeit a rather abnormal one, and I am totally opposed to the existence of Israel. Most Christians believe that Jews were replaced as the 'chosen people' when the Old Covenant was superseded by the New Covenant. Therefore a large part of our seemingly free-of-charge assistance to Israel can be blamed on the influence of AIPAC and similar organizations. (See also the 'AIPAC napkin' - an AIPAC official remarked that he could have the signatures of 70 senators on a napkin in 24 hours. The influence of these organizations is immense.)

THere is a large group of the religious right who believe that the end times will come when the Jews all return to Israel, an thus support Israel.

[New Vedan]

Isreal has alot of powerful friends in our country and is a great customer for our weapons. Plus they provide us with a friendly space in a area that is usually rather anti American. They do get us into trouble every now and then but were kinda to committed to this allince too back out now.

[East Blepia]

I just read your sig and I detect contradiction in your stance. Which is which?

The resolution made in my signature is ironic - it is supposed to be patently absurd.

Also, the US can very well not involve itself or contribute on Israel’s behalf. Too much protesting.

Yes. I think that we should desist from any further alliance or attachment with Israel, and from the maintenance of our hegemony in general. I find also that any government which truly had the long-term wellbeing of America as its first priority would, at a bare minimum, expect much more from Israel in exchange for all of the services we provide it.

[Insaanistan]

Yes, but I would say that it goes beyond the religious right. I would consider myself a member of the religious right, albeit a rather abnormal one, and I am totally opposed to the existence of Israel. Most Christians believe that Jews were replaced as the 'chosen people' when the Old Covenant was superseded by the New Covenant. Therefore a large part of our seemingly free-of-charge assistance to Israel can be blamed on the influence of AIPAC and similar organizations. (See also the 'AIPAC napkin' - an AIPAC official remarked that he could have the signatures of 70 senators on a napkin in 24 hours. The influence of these organizations is immense.)

THere is a large group of the religious right who believe that the end times will come when the Jews all return to Israel, an thus support Israel.

It was prophesied in Islam that eventually Jewish people would reconquer the Holy Land. We also believe that eventually, good Muslims, Jews, Christians etc will fight on the side of the side of Jesus (pbuh) and the Mahdi against bad Muslims, Jews, Christians etc, and that much of it will take place in the Holy Land.

[Hauva]

Yes, but I would say that it goes beyond the religious right. I would consider myself a member of the religious right, albeit a rather abnormal one, and I am totally opposed to the existence of Israel. Most Christians believe that Jews were replaced as the 'chosen people' when the Old Covenant was superseded by the New Covenant. Therefore a large part of our seemingly free-of-charge assistance to Israel can be blamed on the influence of AIPAC and similar organizations. (See also the 'AIPAC napkin' - an AIPAC official remarked that he could have the signatures of 70 senators on a napkin in 24 hours. The influence of these organizations is immense.)

THere is a large group of the religious right who believe that the end times will come when the Jews all return to Israel, an thus support Israel.

Everything the opposite, there are no bigger enemies of Christians than Jews.

The New Testament testifies openly against them. And the Talmud calls Jesus Christ son of a whore.