What has Israel ever done for us?

[Alcala-Cordel]

Sorry but the "Israel is our greatest ally" bit is perhaps the lamest piece of conservative nonsense ever to grace the eyes and ears of those interested in politics.

The State of Israel would be considered a terrorist state by Western standards if it were an Arab or European country shooting at children unfortunate enough to decide to throw rocks or sticks at its borders. It would also be considered a rogue state for the many failed spying operations it has conducted on "the West", as "our greatest ally". Why, it was as recently as 2019 whenMossad was caught trying to listen into Trump's phone calls. One particular incident that hits rather close to home for me, as an extended member of "the free world" is the 2004 Passport Scandal, where Mossad agents stole the passport and credentials of a disabled man and attempted to apply for jobs within the New Zealand Government to gain access information. If you don't believe the severity of it, it lead to New Zealand essentially being the first Western country to jail known Mossad agents, and diplomatic ties were cut between the two nations temporarily.

All of this is without getting into the specifics of many of the things you mentioned.

Historically, perhaps. But most of the modern "fascist terrorists" that Mossad tips the US Government off about are fat, neckbeard LARPers who watch anime and posted an edgy Sonnenrad meme on their Twitter profile.





Is there actually evidence of this?

Antisemitism sucks. Whether antisemites call themselves leftists or rightists do not change what they are: a group of people with strong inferior complex in denial of reality.

The state of Israel is literally what it is: a Jewish ethnostate for those persecuted by antisemites. It accepts anyone and everyone who can be persecuted for their Jewishness, broadly defined as who Nazis considered Mischlings and Jews. Nothing more. Nothing less. Deal with it.

Israel, while governed with a unique apartheid system, is comparable to every other state dominted by religions. None of the states represent the will of their religions despite being controlled by people who claim they act on them, and opposing them for their human rights violations does not neccessarily mean you hate the religions themselves. You seem to have thi idea that states fully represent the will of their people, like warring hiveminds. The truth is it's just not how it works.

[Monsone]

That’s your choice. In reality both you and I know that science is still being done in Jerusalem and free speech exists in Tel Aviv because of the Jewish majority Israel. With Israel gone everything including Jordan River and Dead Sea will die. There will be a Palestine..and a very broken one.

Yes, because apparently there are no Arab countries with free speech or democratically elected governments. (If you can't tell, I am being very sarcastic.)

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

That’s your choice. In reality both you and I know that science is still being done in Jerusalem and free speech exists in Tel Aviv because of the Jewish majority Israel. With Israel gone everything including Jordan River and Dead Sea will die. There will be a Palestine..and a very broken one.

Yes, because apparently there are no Arab countries with free speech or democratically elected governments. (If you can't tell, I am being very sarcastic.)

Other than Tunisia what other example can you find?

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Antisemitism sucks. Whether antisemites call themselves leftists or rightists do not change what they are: a group of people with strong inferior complex in denial of reality.

The state of Israel is literally what it is: a Jewish ethnostate for those persecuted by antisemites. It accepts anyone and everyone who can be persecuted for their Jewishness, broadly defined as who Nazis considered Mischlings and Jews. Nothing more. Nothing less. Deal with it.

Israel, while governed with an apartheid system, is comparable to every other state dominted by religions. None of the states represent the will of their religions despite being controlled by people who claim they act on them, and opposing them for their human rights violations does not neccessarily mean you hate the religions themselves. You seem to have thi idea that states fully represent the will of their people, like warring hiveminds. The truth is it's just not how it works.

Ah. Israel as an Apartheid state. Guess what? Apartheid actually happened so we know what Apartheid states are like. Israel does not fit. Why?

1. Does Israel ban mixed beaches and mixed buses?
2. Does Israel ban mixed marriages?
3. Does Israel set up separate institutions such as colleges for Arabs while excluding from regular ones?
4. Does Israel not have Arab citizens or have them on a separate electoral roll?
5. Do Jews-only areas exist in Israel?

The answer to the 5 questions is “nope”. Hence Israel is not an Apartheid state.

[The Horror Channel]

Nothing good. Israel is an apartheid state and must be abolished for the good of all mankind.

[Fahran]

Ah. Israel as an Apartheid state. Guess what? Apartheid actually happened so we know what Apartheid states are like. Israel does not fit. Why?

1. Does Israel ban mixed beaches and mixed buses?
2. Does Israel ban mixed marriages?
3. Does Israel set up separate institutions such as colleges for Arabs while excluding from regular ones?
4. Does Israel not have Arab citizens or have them on a separate electoral roll?
5. Do Jews-only areas exist in Israel?

The answer to the 5 questions is “nope”. Hence Israel is not an Apartheid state.

One could argue that Israeli policies on land distribution and security measures in the Disputed Territories constitute apartheid, but only the former argument has much credibility and it's not invoked very often.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Nothing good. Israel is an apartheid state and must be abolished for the good of all mankind.

lol nope since no matter what Israel is it is not an Apartheid state.

[Monsone]

Other than Tunisia what other example can you find?

Lebanon, Morocco, and interestingly enough, Palestine. Yeah, they aren't perfect nations, and they have many many issues inside and out of their political systems, but they still are democratic nations with freedom of speech.

And it's not like Israel is that beacon of democracy in the Middle East you like to refer to it as, either. Speak out against the state in Israel, and you're in for a tough time. Criticize the acts being carried out against Palestinians, if you're a local you can get thrown into jail and tried, and if you're a foreigner you can get banned. That is really not all that democratic.

[The Lone Alliance]

Well I think the west has a vested interest in keeping Israel alive if simply so they don't Sampson option the middle east on the way out.

That and there's some economic and military value as well, the Arab wars were a nice easy way to test weapons without actually having to fight yourself.

Israel and Iran might not be getting along now but both Israel and Iran use to have good diplomatic ties before the monarchy was toppled in the 1979 revolution.

They actually had good ties afterwards, Iran is the only country in the middle east that doesn't openly persecute their Jewish population, therefore it was in Israel's interest to work with them. That and Iraq was a threat to them both, Israel helped Iran during the Iran Iraq war and during the 80s Israel and Iran were "Friend-Enemies" but then Saudi Arabia started mellowing out and Israel started covertly aligning themselves with the Saudis, which caused Iran to go back to openly hating them.

In reality the main reason the US doesn't like Iran isn't Israel, it's actually Saudi Arabia that doesn't like Iran. If Israel didn't exist, the US would still hate Iran because Saudi Arabia hates Iran.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Israel, while governed with an apartheid system, is comparable to every other state dominted by religions. None of the states represent the will of their religions despite being controlled by people who claim they act on them, and opposing them for their human rights violations does not neccessarily mean you hate the religions themselves. You seem to have thi idea that states fully represent the will of their people, like warring hiveminds. The truth is it's just not how it works.

Ah. Israel as an Apartheid state. Guess what? Apartheid actually happened so we know what Apartheid states are like. Israel does not fit.

On the contrary, their use of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank along with their general treatment of Palestinians is very similar to other apartheid states.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

Ah. Israel as an Apartheid state. Guess what? Apartheid actually happened so we know what Apartheid states are like. Israel does not fit.

On the contrary, their use of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank along with their general treatment of Palestinians is very similar to other apartheid states.

What are “other Apartheid states”? South Africa and Rhodesia? Ok did South Africa have racial segregation of beaches? Yes. Did they have segregation of schools? Yes. Did they have black electorate? Nope. Did Rhodesia have race-based separate rolls? Yes.

[Fahran]

Lebanon

Lebanon does have a pretty good record (regionally) for preserving human rights for its citizens. There have been issues with the government not practicing due process with alleged criminals and terrorists though. Also, those rights doen't really extend to Palestinian refugees though. As per Wikipedia...

Palestinians living in Lebanon are heavily deprived of basic civil rights. They cannot own homes or land, and are barred from becoming lawyers, engineers and doctors.

Morocco,

Um... About that... I don't dislike the government of Morocco. It's quite enlightened by regional standards, but they aren't great on free speech or free press.

and interestingly enough, Palestine.

Not really, no. Hamas and Fatah are both effectively operating single-party states. Abbas has been in power since 2005 and doesn't seem to be going anywhere any time soon. Hamas actively seized power in a coup where they murdered political opponents.

Yeah, they aren't perfect nations, and they have many many issues inside and out of their political systems, but they still are democratic nations with freedom of speech.

Not really, no.

[Fahran]

And it's not like Israel is that beacon of democracy in the Middle East you like to refer to it as, either. Speak out against the state in Israel, and you're in for a tough time. Criticize the acts being carried out against Palestinians, if you're a local you can get thrown into jail and tried, and if you're a foreigner you can get banned. That is really not all that democratic.

Um, examples please?

[Alcala-Cordel]

On the contrary, their use of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank along with their general treatment of Palestinians is very similar to other apartheid states.

What are “other Apartheid states”? South Africa and Rhodesia? Ok did South Africa have racial segregation of beaches? Yes. Did they have segregation of schools? Yes. Did they have black electorate? Nope. Did Rhodesia have race-based separate rolls? Yes.

Did they implement different forms of apartheid from each other rather than the exact same system? Yes, and so does Israel.

[The Lone Alliance]

Ah. Israel as an Apartheid state. Guess what? Apartheid actually happened so we know what Apartheid states are like. Israel does not fit.

On the contrary, their use of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank along with their general treatment of Palestinians is very similar to other apartheid states.

Does that make Turkey an Apartheid state?

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

What are “other Apartheid states”? South Africa and Rhodesia? Ok did South Africa have racial segregation of beaches? Yes. Did they have segregation of schools? Yes. Did they have black electorate? Nope. Did Rhodesia have race-based separate rolls? Yes.

Did they implement different forms of apartheid from each other rather than the exact same system? Yes, and so does Israel.

It’s you trying to dilute the definition of Apartheid and other horrible terms just to include Israel. There are even people with the most curious definitions of concentration camps which actually include Gaza Strip even though it is anything but a concentration camp in any normal pre-anti-Zionist usage of the term.

[Alcala-Cordel]

On the contrary, their use of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank along with their general treatment of Palestinians is very similar to other apartheid states.

Does that make Turkey an Apartheid state?

There's an argument to be made.

[Fahran]

Does that make Turkey an Apartheid state?

Arguably, most countries in the Middle East are apartheid states by the same standards we're applying to Israel at the moment. Lebanon bans Palestinians from owning land or houses, and they're one of the examples of Arab democracy.

[Fahran]

There's an argument to be made.

And it's a really easy argument to make given the standards you've set.

[Alcala-Cordel]

Did they implement different forms of apartheid from each other rather than the exact same system? Yes, and so does Israel.

It’s you trying to dilute the definition of Apartheid and other horrible terms just to include Israel. There are even people with the most curious definitions of concentration camps which actually include Gaza Strip even though it is anything but a concentration camp.

No, it's you trying to narrow the idea of apartheid down because you refuse to recognize the similarities between Israel's disgusting attacks on human rights and those of other countries that you don't like.

[Alcala-Cordel]

There's an argument to be made.

And it's a really easy argument to make given the standards you've set.

Pretty much, yeah

[Tranzoria]

Sorry I'm late, time for a Jewish Zionist asshole to come in the picture.

[The Lone Alliance]

Does that make Turkey an Apartheid state?

Arguably, most countries in the Middle East are apartheid states by the same standards we're applying to Israel at the moment. Lebanon bans Palestinians from owning land or houses, and they're one of the examples of Arab democracy.

So under this definition most Middle Eastern Countries are Tyranny by Majority Apartheid states, even the ones that are democracies.

[Monsone]

Um, examples please?

Sure:

Two US Congresswomen were banned from Israel for criticizing Israel and calling for a boycott.

This explains the law that Israel passed in 2017 that can ban people from the country just by calling for a boycott of Israel.

Israel arresting a Palestinian activist.

An article from Human Rights Watch discussing how peaceful Palestinian protesters are arrested for peacefully protesting.

And these are just some of the more recent things. Feel free to do your own research to delve deeper into some of the older incidents.

[The Horror Channel]

It’s you trying to dilute the definition of Apartheid and other horrible terms just to include Israel. There are even people with the most curious definitions of concentration camps which actually include Gaza Strip even though it is anything but a concentration camp.

No, it's you trying to narrow the idea of apartheid down because you refuse to recognize the similarities between Israel's disgusting attacks on human rights and those of other countries that you don't like.

You understand completely.