NationStates

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:11 pm**

Heloin wrote:Total societal collapse doesn't happen very often.

You mean global societal collapse?

You are correct.

Because global society has never before occurred.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:38 pm**

I truly appreciate the amount of time and effort needed to grow crops in a sustainable manner, and I try to support my local small farms as much as possible.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:39 pm**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
Heloin wrote:Total societal collapse doesn't happen very often.

You mean global societal collapse?

You are correct.

Because global society has never before occurred.

Even at the level who seem to think it can happen doesn’t happen, well ever.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:47 pm**

I grew up on a small family farm in the midwest. Great experience.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:48 pm**

Heloin wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:
You mean global societal collapse?

You are correct.

Because global society has never before occurred.

Even at the level who seem to think it can happen doesn’t happen, well ever.

Could you rephrase that. ?

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:50 pm**

I grew up in farm country. My uncle was a farmer, and one of his sons is still farming today. Farmers work harder than anyone else and get precious little appreciation for their efforts.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:58 pm**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
Heloin wrote:Even at the level who seem to think it can happen doesn’t happen, well ever.

Could you rephrase that. ?

The societal collapse your saying will happen has never happened before and the likelyhood have such a drastic back step technologically is so out of the realm of possibility even for the most imaginative post apocalyptic media.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:03 am**

No eat, no live.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:29 am**

Destyntine wrote:No eat, no live.

haha look at this guy he can't photosynthesise

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:14 am**

I wish American yards were filled with crops and/or beautiful vegetation as opposed to normally just grass and a few bushes, maybe a tree. I'm very pro-sustainable agriculture.

Kubra wrote:
Destyntine wrote:No eat, no live.
haha look at this guy he can't photosynthesise

The absolute STATE of synthesislets

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:51 am**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:The Industrial Revolution started at about 1760-1780, which means your following estimate is incorrect:

The era in which it became relevant to the topic at hand, when industrialism went global, is the 1860s or so.

No. The Industrial Revolution as a system started at about 1760, so your sums are way off. Again, according to what you are saying the Industrial system should have already collapsed or be in the process of collapsing.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:54 am**

Kubra wrote:haha look at this guy he can't photosynthesise

- Quote from The End just before his battle with Snake.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:01 am**

Farms are literally the bedrock of civilization. It's a shame that a lot of farming in the US at least is done by big agricorporations who degrade the environment with monoculture practices and chemical fertilizers - and that a majority of what's grown is corn that gets made into high fructose corn syrup. I don't see any other way to feed 8+ billion people without industrial agriculture, but we should probably change how it's done somewhat.

As for living on a farm? Eh. Only lived next to one as a kid. They're smelly.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:06 am**

Kowani wrote:
Ifreann wrote:What if I farmed the bugs?

Modernist decadence

Aww, I was hoping for post-modernist.

Strazhnist Tsarus wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:Yeah, when a cataract blinded you at 40 instead of a 2 minute procedure to cure, good times

No doubt stone age living is uncomfortable. By age 40 you’d be lucky to be still alive.
Is that such a bad thing?
Do you HAVE to live a long life? What benefit is there?
Back in the stone age, we didn’t even have a concept of time. We didn’t care to live long.
We lived a full life in our prime, and died when our body began breaking down, living and surviving being harder and harder.

Being alive is when you get to do all the fun stuff, and the more time you spend alive the more fun stuff you can do.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:18 am**

Interesting.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:33 am**

The New California Republic wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:The era in which it became relevant to the topic at hand, when industrialism went global, is the 1860s or so.

No. The Industrial Revolution as a system started at about 1760, so your sums are way off. Again, according to what you are saying the Industrial system should have already collapsed or be in the process of collapsing.

I know. That was already said. What I said is that it only became relevant in the mid 1800’s, when it became global. Additionally I provided another estimation, that being when globalization began and the entire world became its own civilization.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:57 am**

Heloin wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:Could you rephrase that. ?

The societal collapse your saying will happen has never happened before

I’m sure if you told an Englishman about the Industrial Revolution in the 1450s, he’d roll his eyes and say the same thing.

and the likelyhood have such a drastic back step technologically is so out of the realm of possibility even for the most imaginative post apocalyptic media.

What makes it out of the realm of possibility? Be specific, please. What makes our current global system invulnerable to societal collapse (actual societal collapse similar to those documented in other societies around the world throughout history, not some nonsense Day After Tomorrow shit)?

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:59 am**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:No. The Industrial Revolution as a system started at about 1760, so your sums are way off. Again, according to what you are saying the Industrial system should have already collapsed or be in the process of collapsing.

I know. That was already said. What I said is that it only became relevant in the mid 1800’s, when it became global. Additionally I provided another estimation, that being when globalization began and the entire world became its own civilization.

Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:05 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:I know. That was already said. What I said is that it only became relevant in the mid 1800’s, when it became global. Additionally I provided another estimation, that being when globalization began and the entire world became its own civilization.

Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

??

How on earth are you defining this lmao

What is “the Industrial Revolution as a system” and why is 1760 a hard start date, you need to explain why you’re saying this

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:07 pm**

Senkaku wrote:
Heloin wrote:The societal collapse your saying will happen has never happened before

I’m sure if you told an Englishman about the Industrial Revolution in the 1450s, he’d roll his eyes and say the same thing.

Societal collapse and change are radically different points of order. Tsarus has been talking about a technological regression that would make Ted Kaczynski jump with joy.

and the likelyhood have such a drastic back step technologically is so out of the realm of possibility even for the most imaginative post apocalyptic media.

What makes it out of the realm of possibility? Be specific, please. What makes our current global system invulnerable to societal collapse (actual societal collapse similar to those documented in other societies around the world throughout history, not some nonsense Day After Tomorrow shit)?

The closest comparison to such a radical societal shift is the bronze age collapse. Even then the societies around the fertile crescent didn't abandon agriculture and see humanity move towards a pre-agrarian state of living.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:08 pm**

Senkaku wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

??

How on earth are you defining this lmao

What is “the Industrial Revolution as a system” and why is 1760 a hard start date, you need to explain why you’re saying this

Tsarus's starting point is that society is going to collapse by 2110 and we will abandon farming.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:18 pm**

Heloin wrote:
Senkaku wrote:??

How on earth are you defining this lmao

What is “the Industrial Revolution as a system” and why is 1760 a hard start date, you need to explain why you’re saying this

Tsarus's starting point is that society is going to collapse by 2110 and we will abandon farming.

Exactly. All this is Tsarus's spiel, not mine.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:31 pm**

The New California Republic wrote:
Tsarus 2142 wrote:I know. That was already said. What I said is that it only became relevant in the mid 1800’s, when it became global. Additionally I provided another estimation, that being when globalization began and the entire world became its own civilization.

Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

You are being unreasonable, ignorant, and quite idiotic. Britain being the sole industrialized nation does not apply to the circumstances I am talking about. Britain is one industrialized nation, but this industrial empire, whose death I am predicting, is a global empire of sorts. And by this time, the mid 19th century when pretty much the whole world went industrial (again relevant to the topic at hand), all these nations interacted more diplomatically, transportation was streamlined, same with communication. Therefore, at this time (and specifically this time), the world became a civilization.

While I may have initially said that industrialism began in the mid 1800s, what I really meant was the above. Sure, you may be correct in a sublevel argument, but in the primary discussion you have yet to prove anything.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:42 pm**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

You are being unreasonable, ignorant, and quite idiotic. Britain being the sole industrialized nation does not apply to the circumstances I am talking about. Britain is one industrialized nation, but this industrial empire, whose death I am predicting, is a global empire of sorts. And by this time, the mid 19th century when pretty much the whole world went industrial (again relevant to the topic at hand), all these nations interacted more diplomatically, transportation was streamlined, same with communication. Therefore, at this time (and specifically this time), the world became a civilization.

And again that started when the Industrial Revolution started. Shifting the starting line further along the track so that your theory makes even the slightest lick of sense is utterly disingenuous.

Tsarus 2142 wrote:While I may have initially said that industrialism began in the mid 1800s, what I really meant was the above. Sure, you may be correct in a sublevel argument, but in the primary discussion you have yet to prove anything.

Given that you have offered no proof whatsoever of your theory being correct, there is no need for me to prove anything. The burden of proof is entirely on you here.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:57 pm**

Tsarus 2142 wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Nope. You can't move the starting line to benefit your theory. It started at about 1760. Sorry.

You are being unreasonable, ignorant, and quite idiotic. Britain being the sole industrialized nation does not apply to the circumstances I am talking about. Britain is one industrialized nation, but this industrial empire, whose death I am predicting, is a global empire of sorts. And by this time, the mid 19th century when pretty much the whole world went industrial (again relevant to the topic at hand), all these nations interacted more diplomatically, transportation was streamlined, same with communication. Therefore, at this time (and specifically this time), the world became a civilization.

While I may have initially said that industrialism began in the mid 1800s, what I really meant was the above. Sure, you may be correct in a sublevel argument, but in the primary discussion you have yet to prove anything.

*** Warned for flaming ***

NationStates

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