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What if the GOP split into three parties?

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Garkland
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Postby Garkland » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:19 am

Eahland wrote:
Garkland wrote:Then again the current situation reminds me of what became of the Whigs, as they were split on an issue and lost relevancy. I think if the GOP splits it will be better for all of us. People won't have to associate with such a broad party that may contain extremists they disagree with. The third-party can actually be a challenge and threat to other parties and gain strength. I predict in the next decade or two we will have a third-party candidate that will win the white house. It seems very likely.

So, actually look at what happened to the Whigs. They split over the issue of slavery, and some of them became Democrats, some joined the American Party (is it "political nicknaming" if I call them the "Know Nothings"?), and some of them joined with more radically abolitionist groups like the Free Soil and Liberty Parties and formed the Republicans.

And the Know Nothings got stomped by the Republicans in the North, by the Democrats in the South, and over the course of their existence, won a grand total of 8 EVs in one Presidential election, and two Senate seats for one term (plus a couple more who switched). And then they were gone, and there were just the Democrats and the Republicans. It was a different two parties than we'd started with, but it was back to two parties. Because that's the only way our political system is stable.

We have always (modulo a couple of brief transitional periods) been a two-party state, and barring major changes in our voting system and the fundamental structure of our government, we always will be.

If the modern Republicans split, the same thing will happen. The minority group will be briefly relevant, mainly in allowing Democrats to win a bunch of races that they have no business winning, and then they'll be gone, or maybe hang around as a third party with all the relevance of the Libertarians or the Greens. And given the way things are shaping up, it's the Republican Party that'll get hunted to extinction by the raving lunatics.

That is unless several changes are implemented in our government. Several obstacles that third-party candidates had to overcome, like the electoral college, republicans and Democrats trying to stamp out third-party candidates, and growing partisanship. And right now it doesn’t seem like a third parties gonna happen, that was until The dividing and polarizing election of 2020. Yes I might be kind of crazy and a little bit too optimistic about saying that America could be a multi party system in the near future, then again we have been working lots and lots of records recently when it comes to politics, first woman of color as Vice President, Record breaking turn out in the election. Anything could happen at this point. What I have to say that everybody reading this don’t be afraid to step out your comfort zone and see what third parties have to offer. Third parties are weak because we see that the weak and since we believe that the weak we don’t wanna contribute to third party.

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The UwU Union
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Postby The UwU Union » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:21 am

If it were to happen, hypothetically, and the Democratic Party doesn't also split then you'll see Democratic dominance of the federal government for years to come. The electoral system simply does not allow for more than two parties to compete at any given time.

Now, if the US were to adopt proportional representation and forgo the electoral college, then you'd probably see not only the Republican Party split but the Democrats, too.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:53 am

I'm skeptical that it will happen but if it does, I believe some of the authoritarian restrictions I was expecting in 20-30 years might happen in the next decade or so.

Civil War may be coming faster than I expected.
Last edited by Fedel on Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Eahland
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Postby Eahland » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:26 pm

Garkland wrote:
Eahland wrote:So, actually look at what happened to the Whigs. They split over the issue of slavery, and some of them became Democrats, some joined the American Party (is it "political nicknaming" if I call them the "Know Nothings"?), and some of them joined with more radically abolitionist groups like the Free Soil and Liberty Parties and formed the Republicans.

And the Know Nothings got stomped by the Republicans in the North, by the Democrats in the South, and over the course of their existence, won a grand total of 8 EVs in one Presidential election, and two Senate seats for one term (plus a couple more who switched). And then they were gone, and there were just the Democrats and the Republicans. It was a different two parties than we'd started with, but it was back to two parties. Because that's the only way our political system is stable.

We have always (modulo a couple of brief transitional periods) been a two-party state, and barring major changes in our voting system and the fundamental structure of our government, we always will be.

If the modern Republicans split, the same thing will happen. The minority group will be briefly relevant, mainly in allowing Democrats to win a bunch of races that they have no business winning, and then they'll be gone, or maybe hang around as a third party with all the relevance of the Libertarians or the Greens. And given the way things are shaping up, it's the Republican Party that'll get hunted to extinction by the raving lunatics.

That is unless several changes are implemented in our government. Several obstacles that third-party candidates had to overcome, like the electoral college, republicans and Democrats trying to stamp out third-party candidates, and growing partisanship. And right now it doesn’t seem like a third parties gonna happen, that was until The dividing and polarizing election of 2020. Yes I might be kind of crazy and a little bit too optimistic about saying that America could be a multi party system in the near future, then again we have been working lots and lots of records recently when it comes to politics, first woman of color as Vice President, Record breaking turn out in the election. Anything could happen at this point. What I have to say that everybody reading this don’t be afraid to step out your comfort zone and see what third parties have to offer. Third parties are weak because we see that the weak and since we believe that the weak we don’t wanna contribute to third party.

No. The problem is much more deeply rooted in our fundamental political structure than that. We will not become a multiple-party system as long as seats are filled by plurality-wins or FPTP winner-takes-all elections, We will not become a multiple-party system as long as we have a single President chosen by nationwide vote. (Whether directly or filtered through the electoral college. Getting rid of the EC would help here, but only a bit - it doesn't actually solve the core issue, which is that there's only one President and it doesn't matter if he wins by 500 votes in one state or in a 20-million-vote landslide.) The fundamental problem is that we don't have proportional representation, we don't have instant-runoff voting, so voting for a third party - being, by definition, a party that isn't going to win - does not actually gain you - either the voter or the third party - anything, and in fact contributes to the major party you like less winning. Unless we make some fundamental changes to our voting system, voting third party is not merely throwing your vote away... it's actively counterproductive.
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Czechostan
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Postby Czechostan » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:42 pm

Given the US's FPTP system... it's doubtful. The way I see it, it's far more likely that disillusioned Republicans would join the Libertarians or Democrats. And what's far more likely than that is they'd throw up their arms and say, "I'm done with politics. We're all screwed."

If there was such a massive third party splintering, it wouldn't last long, and the dissenters would quickly be reabsorbed into one of the major parties, as happened with the Populists and Dixiecrats before them.

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The Marlborough
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Postby The Marlborough » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 pm

Well one would be the G, the other the O, and the third the P.
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Postby Valrifell » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:51 pm

Two of them would cease to be electorally relevant after ~10 years or less.
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Fauzjhia
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Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:54 pm

As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for someone like Trump
the reason is just simple. we always get the politician we deserve, they represent US, they don't come Mars. I'll just stop here before I write another insult
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:12 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..


It is because they view the alternative as worse* Honestly, your comment seems kinda trolly to me.
Last edited by Fedel on Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby The Two Jerseys » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:36 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..

No, arrogance like this is why they vote for Trump.

That and the fact that the Democrats and "moderate" Republicans have sold out the working class in favor of multinational corporations and identity politics.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:37 pm

The Dems would probably have control of the Presidency and Congress for a good 30-40 years.
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Postby New haven america » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:38 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..

No, arrogance like this is why they vote for Trump.

That and the fact that the Democrats and "moderate" Republicans have sold out the working class in favor of multinational corporations and identity politics.

Last I checked it wasn't a Dem President who thought it was a great idea to ship American Jobs to China.
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:48 pm

Tokora wrote:Anyone who pays attention to US politics know that moderates and trumpists are fighting for the face of the Republican party with threats to otherwise leave, though trumpist dominance is the most likely outcome. If both sides make good on their threats and form two new parties with the Patriot party housing die hard Trump loyalists and Q-anon fanatics, the Lincoln party housing center-right pro-democracy moderates, and what's left of the GOP housing opportunists who oppose enfranchisement but see Trump as too much of a liability.

Besides Democrats having an advantage before the next election shifts the numbers, what is likely to happen from this split?

I think it would just be two political parties, the Patriot Party and the Republican Party. But I think they might still have to deal with each other politically against the Democratic Party, unless the so called centrist Democrats joined the Republican Party, then there is more of a mix. I would have see how many seats each of these three parties would have, to know the political deals they would have to make, it is hard to figure because it hasn't happened.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Tokora » Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:57 pm

Fedel wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..


It is because they view the alternative as worse* Honestly, your comment seems kinda trolly to me.

:eyebrow: Because everyone knows that caring for the sick and the poor is far worse than concentration camps and intentionally letting a pandemic run rampant to kill opponents. Yes I'm being a little trolly but I stand by my points.

If the moderates intend to follow through on leaving they better do it soon before the GOP rots over completely.

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Postby Bearstin » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:36 pm

Trumpism comes more down to America First policies. The moderate special interest Republicans can do very little to oppose this since the tide has turned against them. Trump changed the GOP for the better. He may not have the rhetoric or mannerisms for it, but politicians such as Ron DeSantis, Matt Gaetz, Rick Scott, etc will adopt his ideas but will have the right rhetoric to succeed where Trump failed. Lot of the main ideas of the Trump Administration were center-right ideas so I imagine they won't have problems attracting moderates to their side. Business owners, blue collar workers in certain industries, the police force, etc, will likely support what I guess we can call the Patriot Party.
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Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:49 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..

No, arrogance like this is why they vote for Trump.

That and the fact that the Democrats and "moderate" Republicans have sold out the working class in favor of multinational corporations and identity politics.



DELETED' CENSORED for violence. (oops.. I just made an insult, I did not really check myself there.)

the dems have became an elite Party, yes. But republicans are just searching for the culprit to have someone to blame.
the whole american great again is bullshit, Trump did not brought much business back to USA, as he said he would, and he lost his economic war with China,
and I just can't understand why an American President who actively tries to stay in power, is responsible for an insurrection is fine, while an other getting oral sex was worthy of being impeached, that really do not ad to me. the only ration explanation to this is BIll Clinton was Guilty because he was Democrat, and Trump get away because he is republican.

Trump is not the cause of division in America, he's a product of it.
so please, tell me that republican stand for more the Right-Wing propaganda.
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby New Visayan Islands » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:54 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:As long as toxic conservatism, (the ideology) remains as dominant as it is. the only future I see, is where Trumpists take over the GOP, and it become really ugly.

I was wondering why conservative vote for an hypocryte, a manipulator and a liar like Donald Trump. well. its simple, its because they are like him. ..

Fauzjhia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:No, arrogance like this is why they vote for Trump.

That and the fact that the Democrats and "moderate" Republicans have sold out the working class in favor of multinational corporations and identity politics.



Really. sorry, but if you believe the earth is flat. your opinion is not important and you are an idiot, because science and basic facts show you are wrong.
and American conservatism has been spreading lies over lies, misconception over misconception, over more then 40 years.

the dems have became an elite Party, yes. But republicans are just searching for the culprit to have someone to blame.
the whole american great again is bullshit, Trump did not brought much business back to USA, as he said he would, and he lost his economic war with China,
and I just can't understand why an American President who actively tries to stay in power, is responsible for an insurrection is fine, while an other getting oral sex was worthy of being impeached, that really do not ad to me. the only ration explanation to this is BIll Clinton was Guilty because he was Democrat, and Trump get away because he is republican.

Trump is not the cause of division in America, he's a product of it.
so please, tell me that republican stand for more the Right-Wing propaganda.

Take a *** warning for trolling and flaming. *** You can criticize how conservatives act without attacking them as persons.
Tokora wrote:
Fedel wrote:
It is because they view the alternative as worse* Honestly, your comment seems kinda trolly to me.

:eyebrow: Because everyone knows that caring for the sick and the poor is far worse than concentration camps and intentionally letting a pandemic run rampant to kill opponents. Yes I'm being a little trolly but I stand by my points.

If the moderates intend to follow through on leaving they better do it soon before the GOP rots over completely.

Just not enough for an official warning, but an unofficial warning for trolling should be hint enough. Tone it down.

Thanks!
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Last edited by New Visayan Islands on Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Farnhamia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:58 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:No, arrogance like this is why they vote for Trump.

That and the fact that the Democrats and "moderate" Republicans have sold out the working class in favor of multinational corporations and identity politics.



Really. sorry, but if you believe the earth is flat. your opinion is not important and you are an idiot, because science and basic facts show you are wrong.
and American conservatism has been spreading lies over lies, misconception over misconception, over more then 40 years.

the dems have became an elite Party, yes. But republicans are just searching for the culprit to have someone to blame.
the whole american great again is bullshit, Trump did not brought much business back to USA, as he said he would, and he lost his economic war with China,
and I just can't understand why an American President who actively tries to stay in power, is responsible for an insurrection is fine, while an other getting oral sex was worthy of being impeached, that really do not ad to me. the only ration explanation to this is BIll Clinton was Guilty because he was Democrat, and Trump get away because he is republican.

Trump is not the cause of division in America, he's a product of it.
so please, tell me that republican stand for more the Right-Wing propaganda.

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Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:03 pm

I was simply saying that in USA did not get a Trump presidency by magic. Politicians are not some martians, or some kind of inhuman beings.

We elect them, and in the end, We always get the politician we deserve, they represent us.

Trump is no unique phenomenon to this.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:05 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:I was simply saying that in USA did not get a Trump presidency by magic. Politicians are not some martians, or some kind of inhuman beings.

We elect them, and in the end, We always get the politician we deserve, they represent us.

Trump is no unique phenomenon to this.

You called a poster an idiot.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:06 pm

Fauzjhia wrote:I was simply saying that in USA did not get a Trump presidency by magic. Politicians are not some martians, or some kind of inhuman beings.

We elect them, and in the end, We always get the politician we deserve, they represent us.

Trump is no unique phenomenon to this.


Are you saying you stand by the post that got you warned?

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Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:15 pm

Fedel wrote:
Fauzjhia wrote:I was simply saying that in USA did not get a Trump presidency by magic. Politicians are not some martians, or some kind of inhuman beings.

We elect them, and in the end, We always get the politician we deserve, they represent us.

Trump is no unique phenomenon to this.


Are you saying you stand by the post that got you warned?


Sorry for the insults. (off I just took a double warning on two post) And I think I got warned for the insults for the idea.
I apologize for those.

But, I do Believe what I wrote.
I don't see the GOP dividing themselves or anything like
what I see, is that the Trumpist are going to take control of the party, and it will continue to goes down the road of right wing propaganda.

Trump alone is not responsable for the situation, just the guy who represent the GOP, its a system that build itself over years of propaganda. Like a Big wall, and each actor put their own little bricks in the wall.
Well, Trump just put his own bricks in the wall, that's all, he did not build that wall, nor it is a recent construction. The republican moderate might wish for a change of tone, but its not a simple work of just removing Trump's bricks, its MUCH more complexe and much harder then that.
Last edited by Fauzjhia on Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Fedel
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Postby Fedel » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:18 pm

Tokora wrote:
Fedel wrote:
It is because they view the alternative as worse* Honestly, your comment seems kinda trolly to me.

:eyebrow: Because everyone knows that caring for the sick and the poor is far worse than concentration camps and intentionally letting a pandemic run rampant to kill opponents. Yes I'm being a little trolly but I stand by my points.

If the moderates intend to follow through on leaving they better do it soon before the GOP rots over completely.


Lol. Trying to bring back discrimination and suppression against groups on the basis of their race and political beliefs is not what I'd call "caring for the sick and poor" but whatever floats your boat. Also, if memory serves, those "concentration camps" ( lol ) were being run under Obama as well. :roll:

The moderates in both the Democratic and Republican party are unlikely to leave their party, though the Republican Party might undergo a temporary split.

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Postby Fauzjhia » Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:27 pm

Fedel wrote:
Tokora wrote: :eyebrow: Because everyone knows that caring for the sick and the poor is far worse than concentration camps and intentionally letting a pandemic run rampant to kill opponents. Yes I'm being a little trolly but I stand by my points.

If the moderates intend to follow through on leaving they better do it soon before the GOP rots over completely.


Lol. Trying to bring back discrimination and suppression against groups on the basis of their race and political beliefs is not what I'd call "caring for the sick and poor" but whatever floats your boat. Also, if memory serves, those "concentration camps" ( lol ) were being run under Obama as well. :roll:

The moderates in both the Democratic and Republican party are unlikely to leave their party, though the Republican Party might undergo a temporary split.



I'm not worried for moderate in Democratic Party, more for moderate in Republican party who will have to face challenge from the Trump wing during the next primary.
In multiple district, the general election is not a problem, because they voters always vote republican, the primary would present a greater danger to their job then the general election. but as long as moderates keep getting elected, you are right. there's not reason to fix something that is not broken.
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Founded: Nov 07, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Postauthoritarian America » Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:44 pm

The more the merrier. What's the matter with four? My nightly prayer to whatever gods may be is that the party of authoritarianism, fear, hatred, ignorance and violence splits down the middle and that I live to hear it mentioned rarely, and then only with the Whigs and the Know-Nothings.
"The violence of American law enforcement degrades the lives of countless people, especially poor Black people, through its peculiar appetite for their death." | "There are but two parties now: traitors and patriots. And I want hereafter to be ranked with the latter and, I trust, the stronger party." -- Ulysses S. Grant, 1861 | "You don't get mulligans in insurrection." | "Today's Republican Party is America's and the world's largest white supremacist organization." | "I didn't vote to overturn an election, and I will not be lectured by people who did about partisanship." -- Rep. Gerry Connolly |"Republicans...have transformed...to a fascist party engaged in a takeover of the United States of America."

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