Was Fidel Castro a bad guy?

[Kubra]

Castro's insurgency against the guy wasn't even particularly well run as far as insurgencies and irregular armed forces go, Bautista was just that bad at his job. Like, comically so.

Yeah, weren't they basically just some dudes hiding in the woods with like fucking hunting rifles?

That's how it started, but Bautista was so hated that folks just turned out in their numbers to join his band of merry men or support them, while Bautista's main base of support (the US) was pretty damn sick of his shenanigans.
When Che went to Bolivia he quickly learned (at least I hope he did in the end) how important that was.

[Proctopeo]

He wasn't quite as bad as Batista, or most socialist dictators. The bar for that is in hell, though, so that's not really an accomplishment or an endorsement.

Still bad, but not as bad as he could've been. So there's some faint praise for Castro, I guess...

[Greater Miami Shores]

so?

doesn't make him any better

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

oh Please Rojava, Pinochet was worse than Castro. Chile is better than Cuba under the Castro's.

[Proctopeo]

so?

doesn't make him any better

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

It's simple. There are far more Cuban-Americans than Chilean- or Argentinian-Americans. That, and Castro's rule lasted longer than Pinochet's or Videla's.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Better than Batista I guess.

[Deacarsia]

Yea, Fidel Castro was an evil man.

[Kubra]

Also I may as well say that the castro regime was a mistake. Not as a matter of ideology, but geography: it's in the US's backyard, while the Soviet Union was a world away. When it comes to who to bend the knee to that's a no brainer, and it's a decision that all small countries unfortunately have to make. And in any case, it was clear that the US would have kissed hella ass to any incoming regime after bautista, even if they talked talk about nationalising some US business. Castro as a US friendly dictator would have gotten a nice birthday bouquet and some chocolates from Kennedy himself had he stuck with nationalising mafia business's and just taxing the hell out of the rest, since the threat of him going red in their backyard coupled with their distaste of the previous administration would have left them little choice but tolerate em.

[The New California Republic]

Also I may as well say that the castro regime was a mistake. Not as a matter of ideology, but geography: it's in the US's backyard, while the Soviet Union was a world away. When it comes to who to bend the knee to that's a no brainer, and it's a decision that all small countries unfortunately have to make. And in any case, it was clear that the US would have kissed hella ass to any incoming regime after bautista, even if they talked talk about nationalising some US business. Castro as a US friendly dictator would have gotten a nice birthday bouquet and some chocolates from Kennedy himself had he stuck with nationalising mafia business's and just taxing the hell out of the rest, since the threat of him going red in their backyard coupled with their distaste of the previous administration would have left them little choice but tolerate em.

Yes, there actually was a point in his history where he could have possibly gone down the Non-Aligned path, and courted favours from both East and West.

[Kubra]

Also I may as well say that the castro regime was a mistake. Not as a matter of ideology, but geography: it's in the US's backyard, while the Soviet Union was a world away. When it comes to who to bend the knee to that's a no brainer, and it's a decision that all small countries unfortunately have to make. And in any case, it was clear that the US would have kissed hella ass to any incoming regime after bautista, even if they talked talk about nationalising some US business. Castro as a US friendly dictator would have gotten a nice birthday bouquet and some chocolates from Kennedy himself had he stuck with nationalising mafia business's and just taxing the hell out of the rest, since the threat of him going red in their backyard coupled with their distaste of the previous administration would have left them little choice but tolerate em.

Yes, there actually was a point in his history where he could have possibly gone down the Non-Aligned path, and courted favours from both East and West.

I mean out of all folks around he was in the *best* position to do it, I might speak disdain for ideologists of opportunity in a public setting but cmon it was dangling in his god damn face.
I firmly believe that gambling is on of the greatest sickness's in present society, but if someone told me on good authority a lottery number with a 50% chance of winning you bet your ass I'm buying a ticket, it's a no fucking brainer, turns out gambling is awesome.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I feel like this is a discussion that's happened before but needs to happen again. If there's one dictator all people of the Americas know well and are acquainted with, it's Fidel Castro of the island country of Cuba, who took power in 1959 after overthrowing the regime of Fulgencio Batista and installing a socialist government. Castro is often known for things such as the persecution of political opponents and the cuban missile crisis and his name is on a list of Marxist leaders like Stalin and Mao, but was Castro really all bad and are all the arguments against him really in good faith? After all, healthcare in Cuba did improve under Fidel as did education, and the Castro regime did institute rent control. And Cuba before Castro was a dictatorship without those things so it didn't just lack freedom but also did little for the poor. Still, that doesn't excuse political persecution and the imprisonment of dissenters. It's a complicated issue and I wanted to get the opinion of you NSG. Was Castro a hero of the Cuban people? Was he the worst dictator ever seen in Latin America? Or was he somewhere in the middle?

I have been on NS for over 10 years, This was many years ago, I think on the old co uk forums. I once did a Cuba related thread on Fidel Castro - Fidel Castro for President of The USA. I divided it into USA, Europeans, Canadians, Australia-New Zealand and Asians, for and against. To see with what national ethnic groups he was more popular and less popular with.

I think it was a Lady Poster, when I once suggested to her that she had voted for the whole Fidel, with Fidel's type of government in Cuba, a one Political Party state government dictatorship, she got very angry with me. To her it was like a Democratic Multi Political Party government under Fidel, lol.

This was many years ago, I cant remember the Poll Results, but I think Australian-New Zealanders were the lowest supporters in average Percentage terms. Several Australians and New Zealanders Participated on the thread.

I Posted with a link a statement by Fidel inside the revolution everything, outside the revolution nothing. A Pro Castro Dude, took it to mean a western style multi political party government under Fidel, lol again. When I pointed out with links proving to him that he really did not mean it, the way he expected it, he got very angry with me.

[Kowani]

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

You aren't talking facts. You're repeating tired successful propaganda talking points and you completely ignored my first post. As you've already been told by someone who lived and grew up in Cuba, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to pre-revolution Cuba.

Castro didn't improve healthcare at all.

You know, I’ve read a lot of really fucking stupid articles on here
This may be one of the worst.
It never proves Castro made healthcare worse. Instead, it says “healthcare good pre-Revolution” and then immediately pivots to entirely irrelevant statistics about education spending and GDP. The “evidence” they provide that modern Cuban healthcare are literally pictures of pharmacies taken by the author fucking hacks are everywhere

He actually made quality of care worse than pre-revolutionary levels of healthcare. The only thing that improved under Castro was the number of family doctors and theoretical access to care. Cuba's healthcare is in an abysmal state

This does not address what you think it does

and the quality of care and treatment depends almost entirely on your political status.

In addition to the study not claiming what you say it does again, it’s just…very stupid
Their “evidence” that Cuba is fudging their statistics on early neonatal deaths is that…Cuba is doing better than the rest of Latin America

[Greater Miami Shores]

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

You aren't talking facts. You're repeating tired successful propaganda talking points and you completely ignored my first post. As you've already been told by someone who lived and grew up in Cuba, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to pre-revolution Cuba.

Castro didn't improve healthcare at all. He actually made quality of care worse than pre-revolutionary levels of healthcare. The only thing that improved under Castro was the number of family doctors and theoretical access to care. Cuba's healthcare is in an abysmal state and the quality of care and treatment depends almost entirely on your political status.

As a native Cuban and American citizen who still has family in Cuba, I strongly agree with you on all or at least on most of your post. Great Post.

Alberto - GMS.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Kind of because autocracy/authoritarianism is bad, but definitely not as bad as Batista.

Castro's insurgency against the guy wasn't even particularly well run as far as insurgencies and irregular armed forces go, Bautista was just that bad at his job. Like, comically so.

Dwight D Eisenhower: This is a ragtag communist force. There's no way they're gonna beat Bautista, and I'm sure this'll be resolved in-

Bautista: That's it, I'm out of here. I just wanna go back to the Overton window !

Eisenhower:

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

You aren't talking facts. You're repeating tired successful propaganda talking points and you completely ignored my first post. As you've already been told by someone who lived and grew up in Cuba, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to pre-revolution Cuba.

Castro didn't improve healthcare at all. He actually made quality of care worse than pre-revolutionary levels of healthcare. The only thing that improved under Castro was the number of family doctors and theoretical access to care. Cuba's healthcare is in an abysmal state and the quality of care and treatment depends almost entirely on your political status.

Education still improved and rent control was installed. But please go off on your one sided uncomplicated understanding of the cuban revolution. Funny how I did not praise Castro at all, but you're so rabidly anti communist that I say "some things improved under castro" and you read it as "Castro was awesome and doesn't deserve to be criticized." Oh and the guy who grew up in Cuba that you're referring to isn't exactly known for talking facts that much, so I'd take that all with a grain of salt.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You aren't talking facts. You're repeating tired successful propaganda talking points and you completely ignored my first post. As you've already been told by someone who lived and grew up in Cuba, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to pre-revolution Cuba.

Castro didn't improve healthcare at all.

You know, I’ve read a lot of really fucking stupid articles on here
This may be one of the worst.
It never proves Castro made healthcare worse. Instead, it says “healthcare good pre-Revolution” and then immediately pivots to entirely irrelevant statistics about education spending and GDP. The “evidence” they provide that modern Cuban healthcare are literally pictures of pharmacies taken by the author fucking hacks are everywhere

He actually made quality of care worse than pre-revolutionary levels of healthcare. The only thing that improved under Castro was the number of family doctors and theoretical access to care. Cuba's healthcare is in an abysmal state

This does not address what you think it does

and the quality of care and treatment depends almost entirely on your political status.

In addition to the study not claiming what you say it does again, it’s just…very stupid
Their “evidence” that Cuba is fudging their statistics on early neonatal deaths is that…Cuba is doing better than the rest of Latin America

Hes just doing what alot of right wingers often do. Argue in bad faith, grab random numbers cause most people aren't gonna dig deep into what the numbers actually mean and then tell people about how communism is totally evil and never did anything good and capitalism is good and never did anything bad. I mean all of the sudden I'm a tankie somehow because I didn't tote the line of "Castro is Satan and he was 100% evil and Cuba is worse in every way under him. We should bring back Bautista." It's sad.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

It's simple. There are far more Cuban-Americans than Chilean- or Argentinian-Americans. That, and Castro's rule lasted longer than Pinochet's or Videla's.

Okay but how come we never hear about Bautista? He was there before Castro yet it's always the same narrative of "Cuba was good and then Castro ruined it."

[Insaanistan]

Talking to Cubans in America will get you almost all negatives, as they fled him.
The fact people were fleeing in droves at all, however, should tell you what kind of leader he was.

You could say the same about George Washington.

How so?

[Punished UMN]

You could say the same about George Washington.

How so?

Massive numbers of Americans fled the United States after the Continental Army's victory.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

You could say the same about George Washington.

How so?

Loyalists fled him in droves to Canada. Someone fleeing someone doesn't say much about said persons morality, like how ISIS fled across the desert from the coalition.

[Insaanistan]

How so?

Massive numbers of Americans fled the United States after the Continental Army's victory.

How so?

Loyalists fled him in droves to Canada. Someone fleeing someone doesn't say much about said persons morality, like how ISIS fled across the desert from the coalition.

Touché.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Massive numbers of Americans fled the United States after the Continental Army's victory.

Loyalists fled him in droves to Canada. Someone fleeing someone doesn't say much about said persons morality, like how ISIS fled across the desert from the coalition.

Touché.

As I said before, I'm not saying Castro Cuba was a paradise. It wasn't unless paradise to you means being sent to prison for not agreeing 100% with the leader. But many of the people who came to the US from Castro Cuba weren't fleeing to preserve freedom as much as they were to preserve their economic assets and protect them from the revolution taking them away. And the later arrivals during the boatlift were mainly criminals Fidel sent on boats cause he wanted to fuck with America, and considering the crime rate in Miami in the 1980s he didn't fail.

[Neutraligon]

Touché.

As I said before, I'm not saying Castro Cuba was a paradise. It wasn't unless paradise to you means being sent to prison for not agreeing 100% with the leader. But many of the people who came to the US from Castro Cuba weren't fleeing to preserve freedom as much as they were to preserve their economic assets and protect them from the revolution taking them away. And the later arrivals during the boatlift were mainly criminals Fidel sent on boats cause he wanted to fuck with America, and considering the crime rate in Miami in the 1980s he didn't fail.

So basically Castro was a troll with power

[Borderlands of Rojava]

As I said before, I'm not saying Castro Cuba was a paradise. It wasn't unless paradise to you means being sent to prison for not agreeing 100% with the leader. But many of the people who came to the US from Castro Cuba weren't fleeing to preserve freedom as much as they were to preserve their economic assets and protect them from the revolution taking them away. And the later arrivals during the boatlift were mainly criminals Fidel sent on boats cause he wanted to fuck with America, and considering the crime rate in Miami in the 1980s he didn't fail.

So basically Castro was a troll with power

Castro: "I'm allowing these men to go free and go to America."

America: "Let's let those political refugees in. They've been through so much."

Castro: "Just kidding they're violent gang members."

[New Acardia]

Yes

[Atheris]

Fidel Castro wasn’t a bad guy it John F. Kennedy who was the bad guy who started the Cold War.

Stalin was the one that started the Cold War with the Berlin Blockade. The Cold War started (roughly) 20 years before JFK came into power. Misinformed take is misinformed.