Was Fidel Castro a bad guy?

[Insaanistan]

On the whole Castro is better than Batista, so I consider him to be a net improvement (although the bar was fucking low). That being said, Cuban cities look like they are still stuck in the 1950s.

I'm glad that they have opened up to private business and dropped central planning. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/09/amer ... index.html

Whenever I see Havana (especially the areas that are majority Afro-Cuban), I have to wait a while to listen to what language they speak or what flags are flying to actually be sure if it’s Cuba or somewhere in West Africa.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

No but it means Castro wasn't exactly unique in his bloodlust.

so?

doesn't make him any better

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

[Greater Miami Shores]

I think I can post to you, I have so many enemies on NS that hate me I cant keep track of all of them all the time, lol.

Lol, at the contexts of your posts. Cuba before the revolution had a small upper class, a smaller, virtually nonexistent middle class, working class and a poor class. Today they have the Cuban privileged governing elite that live like rich upper class Cubans, the cuentapropistas that live a little better, and the poor class who at least has healthcare and free education.

FTFY

lol, about 30 to 35 % were middle class before the revolution at that time. I think you believe a lot of Cuban government regime propaganda, they are masters at it. They would make Nazi Germany's Joseph Goebbels Proud.

I will post more directly to you on this one in the future.

My family in Cuba were middle class, we had cars, houses, farms, a hotel bar and restaurant. Voltaire was the rich upper class Padrino of my family in Cuba, my Padrino, a member of high society. He owned 5 family style restaurants in La Habana, had many business investments. He used to let the family sign their expenses at his restaurants under his name.

He once loaned money to a black Cuban to open a small private business, Sandwich Shop in La Habana with employees. Nationalized by the revolution for Fidel, Raúl and the new communist socialist capitalist upper class Hypocrites elite, I posted about with a link.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=notices

After the revolution, we went with Voltaire to the Tropicana Night Club in La Habana, where Voltaire used to have a private account, and still had influence and friends, he used to let the family sign their expenses under his name.

There was a new security guard, the black Cuban he helped, when the black Cuban saw Voltaire he hugged him and thanked him for his help in front of us.

Voltaire once told me in Miami, we were ready, willing and able to help Fidel, but he betrayed us and nationalized all our businesses. When Voltaire told me this, I thought he might have been one of the rich upper class Cubans who financed Fidel, thinking he was not a communist. But out of personal respect for Voltaire as family, I did not bring up the very sensitive subject.

Voltaire spent x numbers of years in Prison for trying to leave Cuba on a raft with his family. The raft was built secretly on a farm near the coast, a few days before they planned to leave, a person I know personally who was to join them in the group, told Voltaire I think they found out about us, I met x and he seemed very nervous, don't go, but Voltaire did not listen, as he set sail on the raft there was the Cuban Coast Guard waiting for them.

Voltaire said they fed them Gusanos - Worms for dinner.

I have a few other true stories I can share to the extent that I can.

I bet I have not changed your views on Cuba and the Castro s with any of my posts? But the same applies to me on your posts and all posters posts.

This thread is related to Republican President Trump which I will post about later. I will never change any persons views on Republican President Trump, Cuba or any issues, and they will never change mine. It really does work both ways, it is called human nature. These are Facts. Lets admit it, lets all admit it on both sides yours and mine's?

[Taigama]

Justin Trudeau’s father sure has started a discussion.

[Intaglio]

I don't kno enough about Castro to make that judgment; I've heard good things and bad things about him. Most Cuban immigrants I've heard to talk about don't seem fond of him, which would seem to point to the negative category, but I've never spoken to any Cuabn actively living under his reign, so.....I don't know, maybe it's one fo those shades of gray thing.

[ImperialRussia]

Fidel Castro wasn’t a bad guy it John F. Kennedy who was the bad guy who started the Cold War.

[Punished UMN]

Castro did some bad things, but politics is not a dinner party and I'd caution anyone who would give him too much criticism to stop and think about how the policy of their own leaders affects people domestically and abroad.

[Intaglio]

Justin Trudeau’s father sure has started a discussion.

Do people actually believe that nonsense?

[Echo Chamber Thought Police]

Fidel Castro wasn’t a bad guy it John F. Kennedy who was the bad guy who started the Cold War.

JFK was still a freshman in the House of Representatives when the cold war started...

[Insaanistan]

I don't kno enough about Castro to make that judgment; I've heard good things and bad things about him. Most Cuban immigrants I've heard to talk about don't seem fond of him, which would seem to point to the negative category, but I've never spoken to any Cuabn actively living under his reign, so.....I don't know, maybe it's one fo those shades of gray thing.

Talking to Cubans in America will get you almost all negatives, as they fled him.
The fact people were fleeing in droves at all, however, should tell you what kind of leader he was.

[Disgraces]

Nah

[Punished UMN]

I don't kno enough about Castro to make that judgment; I've heard good things and bad things about him. Most Cuban immigrants I've heard to talk about don't seem fond of him, which would seem to point to the negative category, but I've never spoken to any Cuabn actively living under his reign, so.....I don't know, maybe it's one fo those shades of gray thing.

Talking to Cubans in America will get you almost all negatives, as they fled him.
The fact people were fleeing in droves at all, however, should tell you what kind of leader he was.

You could say the same about George Washington.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Justin Trudeau’s father sure has started a discussion.

A discussion on Cuba?

[Kubra]

I think I can post to you, I have so many enemies on NS that hate me I cant keep track of all of them all the time, lol.

Lol, at the contexts of your posts. Cuba before the revolution had a small upper class, a middle class, working class and a poor class. Today they have the Cuban privileged governing elite that live like rich upper class Cubans, the cuentapropistas that live a little better, and the poor class.

Meet Cuba's socialist, capitalist, upper class Hypocrites:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1235120

I never tell any one in any way shape or form, I am right and you are wrong on Cuba or any issues, I present my posts and I leave it there.

My opinions are my facts, my facts are my opinions not my facts. The same applies to all of us on all issues.

Why does every communist country have a Nomenklatura of some kind?

Can you name a country without fellas turning a buck gaming the system?

[Greater Miami Shores]

I don't kno enough about Castro to make that judgment; I've heard good things and bad things about him. Most Cuban immigrants I've heard to talk about don't seem fond of him, which would seem to point to the negative category, but I've never spoken to any Cuabn actively living under his reign, so.....I don't know, maybe it's one fo those shades of gray thing.

I am a native Cuban and American Citizen. I still have family in Cuba. All my Family and Friends are Proud Pro Trump Republican Supporters. But I would like to discuss that later on Rojava's Cuba Thread.

I must be the only real native Cuban on NS. But I find it very hard to believe, at times I think there are a few who might not say they are Cubans, because being an anti Castro, anti Cuba regime, native Cuban on NS is very unpopular.

[Venturistia]

I feel like this is a discussion that's happened before but needs to happen again. If there's one dictator all people of the Americas know well and are acquainted with, it's Fidel Castro of the island country of Cuba, who took power in 1959 after overthrowing the regime of Fulgencio Batista and installing a socialist government. Castro is often known for things such as the persecution of political opponents and the cuban missile crisis and his name is on a list of Marxist leaders like Stalin and Mao, but was Castro really all bad and are all the arguments against him really in good faith? After all, healthcare in Cuba did improve under Fidel as did education, and the Castro regime did institute rent control. And Cuba before Castro was a dictatorship without those things so it didn't just lack freedom but also did little for the poor. Still, that doesn't excuse political persecution and the imprisonment of dissenters. It's a complicated issue and I wanted to get the opinion of you NSG. Was Castro a hero of the Cuban people? Was he the worst dictator ever seen in Latin America? Or was he somewhere in the middle?

Bad guys hurt other people and take their stuff. Doing bad guy things for good guy reasons is still makes one a bad guy. Given that he:

1. lied, cheated, stole, hurt and killed people.
and
2. many who survived that wanted to leave were captives on his island so that escape was under penalty of imprisonment or pain of death.

I woud say yes, yes he was -- he was a bad guy.

[My Political Fantasy]

Why does every communist country have a Nomenklatura of some kind?

Can you name a country without fellas turning a buck gaming the system?

Well it's more amusing for communist countries because they advocate for a classless society.

[The Python]

Kind of because autocracy/authoritarianism is bad, but definitely not as bad as Batista.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Fidel Castro wasn’t a bad guy it John F. Kennedy who was the bad guy who started the Cold War.

oh please, but I accept your views as your views.

[Kubra]

Can you name a country without fellas turning a buck gaming the system?

Well it's more amusing for communist countries because they advocate for a classless society.

Meh, you know how it is. There is nothing new under the sun.

[Kubra]

Kind of because autocracy/authoritarianism is bad, but definitely not as bad as Batista.

Castro's insurgency against the guy wasn't even particularly well run as far as insurgencies and irregular armed forces go, Bautista was just that bad at his job. Like, comically so.

[Punished UMN]

Kind of because autocracy/authoritarianism is bad, but definitely not as bad as Batista.

Castro's insurgency against the guy wasn't even particularly well run as far as insurgencies and irregular armed forces go, Bautista was just that bad at his job. Like, comically so.

Yeah, weren't they basically just some dudes hiding in the woods with like fucking hunting rifles?

[Socialist States of Ludistan]

That’s a really though question for me.
I’m a classic liberal, so you know, money talks.
But I don’t think commies are necessarily bad people, many are, but not because they’re commies.
Fidel Castro is neutral, he did some bad stuff, but some good as well.
He’s my favourite commie dictator, other than Gorbachev, but that’s not a high bar, to be honest.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Kind of because autocracy/authoritarianism is bad, but definitely not as bad as Batista.

Another person and I am seeing like a 99 % to 01 or 02 % Pro Castro Cuba's to anti Castro Cuba.

I will never tell any person I am right and you are wrong on any issues, not even on my native Cuba, I argue my posts and I leave it there. I am under no illusions that I will ever change any persons views on Cuba or any issues. The same applies from you to me. You will never change my views on Cuba or any issues, but I will never change your views on Cuba or any issues.

If it happens great, awesome, but it rarely happens on NS on any issues on both sides.

[Tarraya Vel]

so?

doesn't make him any better

It doesn't and I've never admired Castro. When I talk about him improving Cuban healthcare I'm simply talking facts. He still was a dictator and thats something I never have and never will support. People deserve to be able to speak their mind without being shot, hung, jailed or beat down. Castro was a tankie, and as we all know that's no good.

When I say Castro wasn't unique, I mean this weird Fidelophobia you see in Florida is odd. I mean I notice there isn't this same resentment toward Augusto Pinochet or the Argentine regime, which is strange considering Pinochet was worse than Castro. Criticizing Castro is okay, but one sided criticism from a partisan standpoint is not.

You aren't talking facts. You're repeating tired successful propaganda talking points and you completely ignored my first post. As you've already been told by someone who lived and grew up in Cuba, you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to pre-revolution Cuba.

Castro didn't improve healthcare at all. He actually made quality of care worse than pre-revolutionary levels of healthcare. The only thing that improved under Castro was the number of family doctors and theoretical access to care. Cuba's healthcare is in an abysmal state and the quality of care and treatment depends almost entirely on your political status.