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Was Fidel Castro a bad guy?

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Borderlands of Rojava
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Was Fidel Castro a bad guy?

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:08 am

I feel like this is a discussion that's happened before but needs to happen again. If there's one dictator all people of the Americas know well and are acquainted with, it's Fidel Castro of the island country of Cuba, who took power in 1959 after overthrowing the regime of Fulgencio Batista and installing a socialist government. Castro is often known for things such as the persecution of political opponents and the cuban missile crisis and his name is on a list of Marxist leaders like Stalin and Mao, but was Castro really all bad and are all the arguments against him really in good faith? After all, healthcare in Cuba did improve under Fidel as did education, and the Castro regime did institute rent control. And Cuba before Castro was a dictatorship without those things so it didn't just lack freedom but also did little for the poor. Still, that doesn't excuse political persecution and the imprisonment of dissenters. It's a complicated issue and I wanted to get the opinion of you NSG. Was Castro a hero of the Cuban people? Was he the worst dictator ever seen in Latin America? Or was he somewhere in the middle?
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:10 am

He did some bad things for sure but overall I'd say his rule was a net positive for Cuba tbh. He was certainly better than Batista.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:11 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:He did some bad things for sure but overall I'd say his rule was a net positive for Cuba tbh. He was certainly better than Batista.


Yeah batista was a classic Caudillo. America loved how much they could milk Cuba under him.
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Postby Comerciante » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:12 am

Yes.

Did he help people? Yes he did.

Did he hurt people? Yes he did.

What he did for the people of Cuba does not wash out the crimes he has committed against them as well. The way I see it trying to determine whether or not he should be considered a hero or villain is a disservice to history.
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The Reformed American Republic
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Postby The Reformed American Republic » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:12 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:He was certainly better than Batista.

Not a high bar there.

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Navalna
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Postby Navalna » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:13 am

All dictators are bad. All of them. Including Castro. Cuba is a 3rd world shit hole thanks to him.

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North Rosmana
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Postby North Rosmana » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:15 am

Mixed feelings TBH.

Old habits probably.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:16 am

Navalna wrote:All dictators are bad. All of them. Including Castro. Cuba is a 3rd world shit hole thanks to him.


Cuba didn't have a higher standard of living before Castro. You don't have to think he was awesome to know this.
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Adamede
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Postby Adamede » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:16 am

Eh, I personally do but of the Cubans really wanted him gone they would’ve gotten rid of him themselves.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:22 am

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Was he the worst dictator ever seen in Latin America?

No. The likes of Stroessner and Trujillo were arguably far worse.
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Valrifell
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Postby Valrifell » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:25 am

Navalna wrote:All dictators are bad. All of them. Including Castro. Cuba is a 3rd world shit hole thanks to him.


Cuba has one of the highest literacy rates of the West, the world's lowest infant mortality rate, and a healthcare system that's literally better than the US. It's not paradise by any means but it's not a 3rd world shithole, either, and arguably what economic problems it does have is from being cut off from a lot of international trade with the embargo.

That said, I think it's a bit reductive to place historical figures in a binary category of "good guy" and "bad guy", I think he's got a mixed record but overall improved things for a lot of Cubans while at the same time brutally repressed dissent.
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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:25 am

...Maybe? I mean, he wanted to start a World War during the Cuban Missile Crisis (from what I've heard) and I disagree heavily with communism but maybe he was a good guy. I dunno. I like the yeard, though.

The New California Republic wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Was he the worst dictator ever seen in Latin America?

No. The likes of Stroessner and Trujillo were arguably far worse.

Don't forget Papa Doc and Pinochet.
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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:38 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:He did some bad things for sure but overall I'd say his rule was a net positive for Cuba tbh. He was certainly better than Batista.

To my good NS Friend Rojava, I like your OP introduction page.

To the Washington Resistance Army:

Dude I mean no offense, and I will drop it after this, now I really don't consider you a conservative of any kind. I here by drop this issue.

I strongly disagree. I had a very long interesting post to post to you on the American Politics thread, at least interesting to me. But I deleted it from my browser, I tried to related to US Cuba relations, but it would have been considered a threadjack. I don't like Rojava, you, me or anyone getting banned for good by the Mod Gods, :) for any reasons. I am not a bad guy dude despite my pro Trump views and my reputation on NS.

Very Short version for now. Education and health care are not as free as many of you think. My cousin who emigrated legally the right way from Cuba to Miami and the USA, after I did. Studied Architecture, he had to work for x number of years for the Cuban regime at a lower wage to repay his so called free education.

I once read an article on Granma, the Companeros and Compañera comrades of today don't understand the lower wages are due to the benefits of the revolution, free education, :) lol after what I just posted to you and health care, :) lol again, after what I just posted to you, and the US embargo blockade. They blame everything on the US embargo blockade.

When I told him and showed him all about NS, he said to me, be careful what you say about our family still in Cuba, because if the Cuban government finds out who you are they can make life hell for our family still in Cuba. My Cousin did not have to tell me this, I know this. But it is good that he reminded me of it.

I know I will never change your views on Cuba and the Castro brothers, and you will never change my views on Cuba and the Castro Brothers. Just like on Republican President Trump or any issues. This goes for all of us on NS on all issues, vice versa and vice versa. It is called Human Nature, lets admit it, lets all admit it?
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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City of Wong Kong
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Postby City of Wong Kong » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:43 am

I really don’t think Castro was that much better than Bautista. I mean all he did was change the government from a US leaning one to a USSR leaning one. Which is why sometimes I cringe when people think Cuba was better before Castro when in reality it didn’t change that much.

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Greater Miami Shores
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Postby Greater Miami Shores » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:48 am

City of Wong Kong wrote:I really don’t think Castro was that much better than Bautista. I mean all he did was change the government from a US leaning one to a USSR leaning one. Which is why sometimes I cringe when people think Cuba was better before Castro when in reality it didn’t change that much.

ok, I strongly agree with you on Fidel and the current regime with Raúl and their successors, that calls itself the continuity of the eternal revolution, this statement says it all and proves it all.
oh there I go again repeating myself like the broken record I am :) lol. But I think there are no other ways of saying it.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores on Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:51 am, edited 4 times in total.
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City of Wong Kong
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Postby City of Wong Kong » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:51 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:
City of Wong Kong wrote:I really don’t think Castro was that much better than Bautista. I mean all he did was change the government from a US leaning one to a USSR leaning one. Which is why sometimes I cringe when people think Cuba was better before Castro when in reality it didn’t change that much.

ok, will I strongly agree with you on Fidel and the current regime with Raúl and their successors, that call itself the continuity of the eternal revolution, this statement says it all and proves it all.

oh there I go again repeating myself like the broken record I am :) lol. But I think there are no other ways of saying it.


I don’t think you are repeating yourself. I just think that is the case when comes to the Castros anyway I don’t want to continue onward with this. This is my final statement on this issue.
Last edited by City of Wong Kong on Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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New Vedan
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Postby New Vedan » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:54 am

Castro was certainly better than Batista, but that dosent necessarily make him a good leader. Sure the standerd of living g for Cubans has gone up slightly since 1959, but it's still a dirt poor autocratic state that represses it's own people. Of course that said I'm a American that has no ties to Cuba whatsoever, my opinions gonna be biased by the decades long standoff weve had with Cuba.

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The Central Pacific Free State
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Postby The Central Pacific Free State » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:54 am

Typical revolutionary.
You start with good idea and moral intentions but a revolution necessiates the institution of a brutal state as soon as you take power. You will need to kill supporters of the previous regime or atleast take their power/influence away, or the counter revolution will soon come.

Now from an ideological standpoint I dont have a real opinion on him since most what I think about his reign is dictated to me by our western worldview and I dont really care enough to educate myself more on him,
but his reforms did change the country for the better and the improved healthcare and literacy are still felt today.

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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:55 am

Greater Miami Shores wrote:To the Washington Resistance Army:

Dude I mean no offense, and I will drop it after this, now I really don't consider you a conservative of any kind. I here by drop this issue.


I will say this one final time in the plainest language possible in hopes that you can finally understand. I never called myself a conservative, I never have called myself a conservative, I reject conservatism entirely because it has failed time and time again, you did not understand that original discussion and you still don't understand any of what was said. Stop quoting or replying to me, you're impossible to have a discussion with.

Valrifell wrote:
Navalna wrote:All dictators are bad. All of them. Including Castro. Cuba is a 3rd world shit hole thanks to him.


Cuba has one of the highest literacy rates of the West, the world's lowest infant mortality rate, and a healthcare system that's literally better than the US. It's not paradise by any means but it's not a 3rd world shithole, either, and arguably what economic problems it does have is from being cut off from a lot of international trade with the embargo.

That said, I think it's a bit reductive to place historical figures in a binary category of "good guy" and "bad guy", I think he's got a mixed record but overall improved things for a lot of Cubans while at the same time brutally repressed dissent.


One could make the argument the repression was ultimately worthwhile given the aforementioned achievements tbh. Cuba leaping forward in those fields is really remarkable given the embargo and our constant attempts to topple them. It should be a mark of pride for Cubans that they did all that and still pretty effectively resisted a superpower tbh.
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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:56 am

On the whole Castro is better than Batista, so I consider him to be a net improvement (although the bar was fucking low). That being said, Cuban cities look like they are still stuck in the 1950s.

I'm glad that they have opened up to private business and dropped central planning. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/09/amer ... index.html
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:57 am

Picairn wrote:On the whole Castro is better than Batista, so I consider him to be a net improvement (although the bar was fucking low). That being said, Cuban cities look like they are still stuck in the 1950s.

I'm glad that they have opened up to private business and dropped central planning. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/09/amer ... index.html


The 50's aesthetic is kinda cool honestly. It's a nice point of uniqueness.
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Julian the Apostate wrote:I feel awe of the gods, I love, I revere, I venerate them, and in short have precisely the same feelings towards them as one would have towards kind masters or teachers or fathers or guardians or any beings of that sort.

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Trollzyn the Infinite
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:58 am

Adamede wrote:Eh, I personally do but of the Cubans really wanted him gone they would’ve gotten rid of him themselves.


That's a really weak argument considering he literally shipped all his opposition to the U.S. and whether or not Cubans like him doesn't at all relate to whether or not he was good to them. The Kim Dynasty's relationship with the North Korean people could be compared to that of an abuser to the abused. The fact that the abused is too afraid of the abuser does not necessarily mean they favor them. Dictators rule through fear and intimidation and Castro was no exception to this.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:59 am

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Adamede wrote:Eh, I personally do but of the Cubans really wanted him gone they would’ve gotten rid of him themselves.


That's a really weak argument considering he literally shipped all his opposition to the U.S. and whether or not Cubans like him doesn't at all relate to whether or not he was good to them. The Kim Dynasty's relationship with the North Korean people could be compared to that of an abuser to the abused. The fact that the abused is too afraid of the abuser does not necessarily mean they favor them. Dictators rule through fear and intimidation and Castro was no exception to this.


I mean, there are genuinely a lot of North Koreans who actually like the Kims. Even some of them in the South still speak favorably of the North as a whole. It's far too black and white to think dictators only rule through fear and intimidation, the real world is much more complicated than that.
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Julian the Apostate wrote:I feel awe of the gods, I love, I revere, I venerate them, and in short have precisely the same feelings towards them as one would have towards kind masters or teachers or fathers or guardians or any beings of that sort.

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Picairn
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Postby Picairn » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:59 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:The 50's aesthetic is kinda cool honestly. It's a nice point of uniqueness.

Maybe they should reserve some nicest areas for history and let others develop into skyscrapers.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:01 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Picairn wrote:On the whole Castro is better than Batista, so I consider him to be a net improvement (although the bar was fucking low). That being said, Cuban cities look like they are still stuck in the 1950s.

I'm glad that they have opened up to private business and dropped central planning. https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/09/amer ... index.html


The 50's aesthetic is kinda cool honestly. It's a nice point of uniqueness.


Art Deco is cooler imo.
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