NationStates

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:33 pm**

San Lumen wrote:You also can’t legally break up a political party. It would be unconstitutional.

If I was a party leader for Labor I'd 100% do a purge, but that might cause a massive demographic shift with progressivism as I would aim for a 4 year period of isolationism and focus on workers than 'social issues'

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:34 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Oh here it goes again. It's not elitist to pay for poor people's educations with my tax dollars. The coal mines aren't coming back.

It's elitist to pay for champagne, caviar and have it all on one's yacht while people millions starve and struggle with homelessness.

I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:34 pm**

San Lumen wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:It's a far better solution.

Because it doesn't work.

Let me put it to you this way, Knox Mine disaster.

How is it better?

How does it not work?

So you do acknowledge it and that the industry needs to disappear?

Because it actual gives smaller parties actual representation in government and a voice to those who don't vote for the big two parties.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:35 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:or perhaps people decided they didn't;t like the third parties. what is your issue with RCV?

Or the parties keep pushing fear and propaganda against third parties to the people creating this ever growing partisan divide in this country. You still haven't proven to me smaller parties have won.

Australia is a useful example, because we have single-member STV in the House, but multiple member STV in the Senate (6 per state per election, or all 12 in some elections).

The Australian House looks almost exactly like any FPTP chamber: 2 big parties, one of them with an outright majority of members. The Gillard government in 2013 was a minority-Labor government who formed a temporary coalition with (mostly country) Independents, but it was very much an exception to the rule.

The Australian Senate on the other hand, somehow manages to be roughly proportional despite representing the voters of the different states very unequally. Electing the six most popular instead of electing the single person most popular, has a far more dramatic effect than just STV in the House. It's been 6 elections since either major party held a majority (2004) and even then it was deadlocked, and made a majority by appointing one of the opposite party as Speaker (the speaker forfeits their vote).

We have something called a Double Dissolution Election (pronounced "double disillusion" by most people), one feature of which is that all the Senators are elected instead of only half of them. Then there's a raffle of some sort to decide which are there for a double term and which for a single term. Because the quota to get elected is halved and the "12 most popular" instead of 6, for each state, get elected, you can get wild results like this (from 2016):

Coalition (Liberal + National + LNP) 29
Labor 23
Greens 9
One Nation 4
Nick Xenophon Team 3
Country Liberal Party
Family First
Jacqui Lambie
Justice Party
Liberal Democrats

(Should add to 76)

STV for single offices (districts) will do almost nothing to get third party representatives into office. Multiple-member constituencies (even without STV) will do that for you.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:35 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:It's elitist to pay for champagne, caviar and have it all on one's yacht while people millions starve and struggle with homelessness.

I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

No you're not, you not some preacher, you're a way out of your head elitist who thinks your better than me.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:37 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:We can do that too, I don't mind. I'm not being condescending or elitist.

Except you are when you said "just have them do coding lol"

No I am not. Wanting to get high paying jobs for poor people is not elitist.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:37 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

No you're not, you not some preacher, you're a way out of your head elitist who thinks your better than me.

I think I'm better than you? I'm an out of my head elitist? Ok.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:38 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:No you're not, you not some preacher, you're a way out of your head elitist who thinks your better than me.

I think I'm better than you? I'm an out of my head elitist? Ok.

You certainly act like it.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:39 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I think I'm better than you? I'm an out of my head elitist? Ok.

You certainly act like it.

That's rich.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:40 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:You certainly act like it.

That's rich.

Like you.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:41 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:That's rich.

Like you.

Stop hating.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:41 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:Like you.

Stop hating.

Then stay pressed.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:45 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

No you're not, you not some preacher, you're a way out of your head elitist who thinks your better than me.

If you have a problem with Sundiata personally, you would be the very first.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:46 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

No you're not, you not some preacher, you're a way out of your head elitist who thinks your better than me.

*** One day off for flaming. ***

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:47 pm**

Sundiata wrote:No I am not. Wanting to get people high paying jobs for poor people is not elitist.

The problem is coal miners who just started learning to code can't compete with fresh college students who had 4 years of studying. Hell, even the students are struggling with competition. We should transition them into fields where they have the most relevant experience to work, like the green sector and public construction.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:48 pm**

Dresderstan wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Stop hating.

Then stay pressed.

You're being classist towards me by calling me a rich out-of-touch elitist.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:49 pm**

Kowani wrote:Trump's golden CPAC statue-conceived in Mexico, made in China

Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:49 pm**

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Kowani wrote:Trump's golden CPAC statue-conceived in Mexico, made in China

Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

Why did you think we were kidding?

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:51 pm**

Oh bugger. Dresderestan got time off before they could tell me their plan for Federal PR.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:51 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Dresderstan wrote:It's elitist to pay for champagne, caviar and have it all on one's yacht while people millions starve and struggle with homelessness.

I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

Yeah! You’re not out of touch! I mean, look at how much time you devote to telling people you’re not out of touch, in like every thread at this point— isn’t that evidence enough? You must be the least out of touch person I’ve heard of in some time, based on that metric!

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:52 pm**

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Kowani wrote:Trump's golden CPAC statue-conceived in Mexico, made in China

Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

indeed we were not
embrace idolatry

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:55 pm**

Senkaku wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I'm not some apathetic elite. Really? Do you really think I drink champagne on my yacht in disgust for the poor? I'm not out of touch with humanity. I am in touch with humanity. Coal mining jobs aren't coming back.

Yeah! You’re not out of touch! I mean, look at how much time you devote to telling people you’re not out of touch, in like every thread at this point— isn’t that evidence enough? You must be the least out of touch person I’ve heard of in some time, based on that metric!

Being rich or upper-class doesn't make someone a bad person, unempathetic, or out of touch.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:58 pm**

Sundiata wrote:
Senkaku wrote:Yeah! You’re not out of touch! I mean, look at how much time you devote to telling people you’re not out of touch, in like every thread at this point— isn’t that evidence enough? You must be the least out of touch person I’ve heard of in some time, based on that metric!
Being rich or upper-class doesn't make someone a bad person.

It often doesn’t, but it sure can, especially in the US. But it’s interesting that you associate being rich both with being out of touch and with being a bad person and interpret the accusation of one as the accusation of all three.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:59 pm**

Senkaku wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Being rich or upper-class doesn't make someone a bad person.

It often doesn’t, but it sure can, especially in the US. But it’s interesting that you associate being rich both with being out of touch and with being a bad person.

I don't want to have this conversation anymore, please.

Posted: **Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:59 pm**

Kowani wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Wait, that was a real thing? I thought you guys were kidding about that, I didn't know they had a literal golden idol. That's...wow.

indeed we were not
embrace idolatry

I imagine the sculptor is regretting that they used a Biblical reference to make fun of Trump. On the other hand, they probably got paid which is hitting above average.

NationStates

American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)