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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:37 pm
by Punished UMN
Eahland wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.

Hahahahaha no.

I'm not downplaying the severity of the Japanese internment, but we've done way, way worse. For starters, look at basically any interaction the U.S. has ever had with the native population. And do I need to remind you that literal millions of people were held as chattel slaves over a period of more than 75 years (and much longer before it was technically "US history"), with lingering effects even up to this day, and most of our pre-Civil War Presidents not only endorsed this practice, but participated in it?

There is fundamentally a political difference between them, and that is the friend-enemy distinction. The Japanese-Americans were American citizens, the others were not, that is to say, FDR is the US president who committed war crimes against his own people.

That said, you're absolutely right, and I worded my post incredibly poorly.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:37 pm
by Picairn
San Lumen wrote:excellent hopefully Democrats can find a way to get it to pass the Senate.

10 Republican votes? Not a chance.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:38 pm
by Kowani
the world's greatest deliberative body
Image

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:40 pm
by Sundiata
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:40 pm
by A-Series-Of-Tubes
Bear Stearns wrote:
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

There's some point between 75% and 99% where a left-of-center government has to draw the line, and say "you people don't need government help, you've already helped yourself plenty".

That said, I wouldn't go much below 75%. It's political suicide to disdain the middle class.


Well someone should have thought of that about 70 years ago.


The percentage of income going to the top 1% reached a low in the late 70's, at 11%. Since about 1980 that has been rising and is now around 20%

The UK over the same time rose from 6% to 14%, and Canada from 8% to 14%

"70 years ago" is so unfounded in facts, I assume you're trying to deflect the blame from Reaganomics to ... I don't even know ... deficit spending on the Korean War or something?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:41 pm
by Loeje
Sundiata wrote:
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.

I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:43 pm
by Picairn
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

Send this to the Senate Hall of Fame alongside Inhofe holding a snowball and Mike "Reagan riding a dinosaur" Lee please.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:44 pm
by Borderlands of Rojava
My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: Image

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:45 pm
by Sundiata
Loeje wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.

I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.

For most of its citizens the United States is a failing state. But honestly, it was inevitably going to fail from the start.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:47 pm
by Sundiata
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: (Image)

The Republican Party is a cult these days. It's past peak Mccarthy.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:48 pm
by A-Series-Of-Tubes
Sundiata wrote:
Kowani wrote:the world's greatest deliberative body
(Image)

I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.


This is why the Australian parliament forbids "props". If a member wants to make a dumb point like that they have to read it aloud (while being heckled) which a mathematically-challenged member probably would not venture to.

"One mile, as we all know, is 63 point three six oh inches, meaning that ..."

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:50 pm
by Shu Chengdu
Sundiata wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:My girlfriend: He's probably thinking about other women right now.

My brain: (Image)

The Republican Party is a cult these days.


Whatever makes you think that?...

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm
by Umeria
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

So? Proportionally it's negligible to them, and it doesn't increase the total cost all that much since they only make up 1% of the population. Means-testing, no matter how careful you are, leads to some people who need the money not getting it.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:51 pm
by Loeje
Sundiata wrote:
Loeje wrote:I don't disagree with that. We all know that it's a lot of money.

For most of its citizens the United States is a failing state. But honestly, it was inevitably going to fail from the start.

I don't know that it was always inevitable. But right now, yeah, that sounds pretty accurate.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm
by San Lumen
Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:excellent hopefully Democrats can find a way to get it to pass the Senate.

10 Republican votes? Not a chance.


Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm
by Sundiata
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:
Sundiata wrote:I don't mean to sound rude but we've reached a stupid level of discourse.


This is why the Australian parliament forbids "props". If a member wants to make a dumb point like that they have to read it aloud (while being heckled) which a mathematically-challenged member probably would not venture to.

"One mile, as we all know, is 63 point three six oh inches, meaning that ..."

The United States is unfortunately not a full democracy though. I believe that its politicians are too compromised to get any substantive change accomplished. With the increased liquidation of all facets of American life, the populace is doomed to the power of private tyrannies.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 pm
by The Black Forrest


Oh poor him.

I am sure he is shedding tears as he deposits his payouts.

Wonder what was the total of his golden parachute?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:57 pm
by Sundiata
Shu Chengdu wrote:
Sundiata wrote:The Republican Party is a cult these days.


Whatever makes you think that?...

The Republican Party with pride embraces everything ugly about the United States.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:58 pm
by Picairn
San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:00 pm
by Dresderstan
San Lumen wrote:
Picairn wrote:10 Republican votes? Not a chance.


Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

No.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:00 pm
by San Lumen
Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.


I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:01 pm
by San Lumen
Dresderstan wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

No.

Why not? Why should 60 votes be needed to do anything?

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:02 pm
by Sundiata
Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Then get rid of the filibuster as it is and go back to the way it used to be. Talk and if you yield the floor the bill comes up to vote.

Maybe you can bring this suggestion to Manchin and Sinema.
Their donors don't want them to have that talk.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:02 pm
by Picairn
San Lumen wrote:I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

Mail them or something.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:03 pm
by Dresderstan
Picairn wrote:
San Lumen wrote:I wish I was in the Senate could propose that.

Mail them or something.

Like they're gonna listen to one piece of mail from somebody in a state they don't even represent.