NationStates

Senkaku wrote:

Galloism wrote:We’d probably assassinate one or three of theirs back. By drone strike.

But we wouldn’t say “they attacked the United States” if they killed a general standing in... I dunno... Canada or something. We’d say they assassinated one of our generals in Canada.

if they flew an aircraft over Canada and fired a missile at an American general, you really think there'd be that measured a response?

From us or Canada?

Because I feel like Canada would be super pissed about it.

Tyunmen wrote:

Greater Miami Shores wrote:Do you work? Do poor lower income persons work, including Black African American Citizens? I say Yes - I say Yes - I say Yes - so they can afford to buy a voter ID if they wish to do so, they can make rooms, as they as they do make rooms for anything they want.

But since homeless persons cant afford to buy a a voter ID, because they don't even work, then they cant buy a voter ID - Because they don't even work - Back to First Base.

I Rest My Case - I Know My English Not Very Good - lol.

So you DO hate the homeless got it.

I did not say I hate the homeless lol.

But I know My English Not Very Good lol.

I Rest My Case Again.

Umeria wrote:

Galloism wrote:We’d probably assassinate one or three of theirs back. By drone strike.

But we wouldn’t say “they attacked the United States” if they killed a general standing in... I dunno... Canada or something. We’d say they assassinated one of our generals in Canada.

You really can't imagine a presidential address or something where Biden solemnly says "this is an attack on our country"?

Probably not “on our country” no. He’d likely go “this was an attack on us and our allies”, referencing Canada.

Galloism wrote:

Senkaku wrote:if they flew an aircraft over Canada and fired a missile at an American general, you really think there'd be that measured a response?

From us or Canada?

Because I feel like Canada would be super pissed about it.

So you don't think the US would be, then?

You don't think the US would react a bit more strongly to Iranian aircraft striking top-level American military targets in North America?

Greater Miami Shores wrote:But since homeless persons cant afford to buy a a voter ID, because they don't even work, then they cant buy a voter ID - Because they don't even work - Back to First Base.

So if, for example, a candidate ran on a jobs program, people without a job, who desperately need that jobs program, wouldn't be able to vote for that candidate.

Galloism wrote:

Umeria wrote:You really can't imagine a presidential address or something where Biden solemnly says "this is an attack on our country"?

Probably not “on our country” no. He’d likely go “this was an attack on us and our allies”, referencing Canada.

The general vibe is the same, don't you agree?

Galloism wrote:

Neutraligon wrote:The issue is mainly in the difficulty and cost in getting an ID. If all legal voters could easily get an ID for free in a timely manner there would be no issue, unfortunately they can't. It takes time, money and transportation to get an ID. The people least likely to be able to get an ID are poor African Americans.

Pretty much.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a federal law that states explicitly that to require photo ID, the state must past an <X> part test to prove their photo IDs are free, easy to obtain, timely issued, and has sufficient assistance in transportation to get such for the poor and disabled.

What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Senkaku wrote:

Galloism wrote:From us or Canada?

Because I feel like Canada would be super pissed about it.

So you don't think the US would be, then?

You don't think the US would react a bit more strongly to Iranian aircraft striking top-level American military targets in North America?

But don't you understand, America is the world's policeman, and America can do whatever it wants for the greater good!

The Marlborough wrote:

Galloism wrote:Pretty much.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a federal law that states explicitly that to require photo ID, the state must past an <X> part test to prove their photo IDs are free, easy to obtain, timely issued, and has sufficient assistance in transportation to get such for the poor and disabled.

What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Are they required to vote?

Umeria wrote:

The Marlborough wrote:What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Are they required to vote?

More or less. You can vote without an ID but only if there is someone at the polling station who can confirm your identity and address + has a photo ID themselves and you are the only person they can do that for that election. Most people however have ID's so it's not a massive issue.

Greater Cesnica wrote:

Senkaku wrote:So you don't think the US would be, then?

You don't think the US would react a bit more strongly to Iranian aircraft striking top-level American military targets in North America?

But don't you understand, America is the world's policeman, and America can do whatever it wants for the greater good!

I guess I also left out the part of the analogy where Canada has also been under actual or effective Iranian occupation for the better part of two decades lol

The Marlborough wrote:

Galloism wrote:Pretty much.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a federal law that states explicitly that to require photo ID, the state must past an <X> part test to prove their photo IDs are free, easy to obtain, timely issued, and has sufficient assistance in transportation to get such for the poor and disabled.

What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is?

Not sure, maybe that we've constructed such a perverse way of life and a society so at odds with human needs that it just confuses us to hear about countries that organize their governments or cultures with the main (or even ancillary) goal of making people's lives better and easier to navigate?

The Marlborough wrote:

Galloism wrote:Pretty much.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a federal law that states explicitly that to require photo ID, the state must past an <X> part test to prove their photo IDs are free, easy to obtain, timely issued, and has sufficient assistance in transportation to get such for the poor and disabled.

What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Great Awesome Excellent Post.

The Marlborough wrote:

Umeria wrote:Are they required to vote?

More or less. You can vote without an ID but only if there is someone at the polling station who can confirm your identity and address + has a photo ID themselves and you are the only person they can do that for that election. Most people however have ID's so it's not a massive issue.

It is a pretty big issue here as that workaround does not exist. They literally look for any reason they can find to stop people they don't like from voting.

The Marlborough wrote:

Galloism wrote:Pretty much.

I wouldn’t be opposed to a federal law that states explicitly that to require photo ID, the state must past an <X> part test to prove their photo IDs are free, easy to obtain, timely issued, and has sufficient assistance in transportation to get such for the poor and disabled.

What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

so, to use an example of stuff that actually happens
the most widely owned ID here is a drivers' license, so that's what they'll pick as acceptable
but black people are substantially less likely to own one, because they're less likely to own a car
so instead, they'll have other forms of ID's for other things
so the GOP will make the ID's that black people disproportionately have invalid for voting
you can still use them for other stuff, but not to vote
then, they'll close down all the DMV's in black neighborhoods
so not only do you have to go to the DMV-which is notoriously slow, you gotta get transportation there and back (which you don't have), you better hope you have every single relevant document (and because the DMV's online services are terrible, the list is often inaccurate). Don't have those? More time and money tracking them down.

Farnhamia wrote:

Alcala-Cordel wrote:You mean like this or like this?


This is worth checking out too, as is some of the stuff mentioned here.

Uh huh. Soleimani was killed in Baghdad, which is not part of Iran. "Operation Praying Mantis was an attack on 18 April 1988, by the United States Armed Forces within Iranian territorial waters in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq War and the subsequent damage to an American warship." Are you saying the US isn't allowed to retaliate for attacks on its forces? As for supporting Iraq in that war, well, as short-sighted as it proved to be, Iraq was on our side. Or we were on their side. It was 33 years ago, who can remember that far back?

Pretty much everyone in the region remembers that far back and the Iran-Iraq War is one of the defining events of modern middle eastern history upon which much current conflict is based.

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:

Kowani wrote:Senate Dems drop backup plan to raise the minimum wage by placing extra taxes on megacorporations who paid their employees less than $15 an hour

Of course they did. The corporations are where the party gets its money from and everyone knows it.

Okay, but...you guys understand what actually happened, right?

The senate parliamentarian said that a raise in minimum wage was not eligible for budget reconciliation. In addition, 49 Democratic Senators are into it, Manchin isn't. They were willing to sacrifice that nominal 'bipartisanship' in order to include the $15/hr minimum wage. They don't have an avenue for it, so they're looking for other ways to make some sort of movement on minimum wage.

Not quite "they don't want to upset their corporate masters". I get the urge to criticize the Democrats for not pushing for considerable change...but, like...we could ground it in what's happening instead of just half assing a George Carlin routine every time you don't get everything you want. Because when your critique is this generic, this dismissive...honestly, that's giving them a pass because you're not really paying attention. If your critique to all of this is "their corporate masters" you're a write off. If everything gets the same canned response that doesn't even try to engage with what is actually happening their lack of interest in your wants is self fulfilling.

Plus it'd be cool if people on a political debate forum to at least rise above the YouTube comments section in terms of engagement with a story.

Non paywall version of the story.

The plan being discussed would overwhelmingly hit companies in the Fortune 1000, many of which have seen record profits during the pandemic. The penalty probably would start almost immediately after the passage of legislation.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Senate Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., called on Democrats to pursue these levies after the party was dealt a setback on its original plan to raise the minimum wage.

The Senate's parliamentarian said Thursday that the $15-an-hour minimum wage is inadmissible under the rules of the procedure that Democrats are using to pass President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus bill with a narrow majority. The White House has ruled out overruling the parliamentarian, and centrist Democrats such as Sen. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia have said they would not change the rules of the filibuster in the Senate, imperiling the provision.

"It is cold comfort to know that majority support for raising the minimum wage could be meaningless because of arcane Senate rules," Wyden said in a statement last week. "We couldn't get in the front door or the back door, so we'll try to go through the window."

Kowani wrote:Senate Dems drop backup plan to raise the minimum wage by placing extra taxes on megacorporations who paid their employees less than $15 an hour

The plan was flawed and untested anyway. Another battle to fight in the next stimulus package.

The Marlborough wrote:What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Can't blame Americans for being paranoid, the Repubs tried and are still trying to stop people from voting in any way possible.

Senkaku wrote:

Greater Cesnica wrote:But don't you understand, America is the world's policeman, and America can do whatever it wants for the greater good!

I guess I also left out the part of the analogy where Canada has also been under actual or effective Iranian occupation for the better part of two decades lol

The Marlborough wrote:What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is?

Not sure, maybe that we've constructed such a perverse way of life and a society so at odds with human needs that it just confuses us to hear about countries that organize their governments or cultures with the main (or even ancillary) goal of making people's lives better and easier to navigate?

Except I can't think of a single country that doesn't have fees for obtaining government photo ID. A number of countries actually have much higher fees than those that exist in the US. Supposedly the cost of obtaining a driver's license in Sweden is about 15 000kr which is about $1780 USD. They also require an ID when voting.

Cannot think of a name wrote:

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Of course they did. The corporations are where the party gets its money from and everyone knows it.

Okay, but...you guys understand what actually happened, right?

The senate parliamentarian said that a raise in minimum wage was not eligible for budget reconciliation. In addition, 49 Democratic Senators are into it, Manchin isn't. They were willing to sacrifice that nominal 'bipartisanship' in order to include the $15/hr minimum wage. They don't have an avenue for it, so they're looking for other ways to make some sort of movement on minimum wage.

Not quite "they don't want to upset their corporate masters". I get the urge to criticize the Democrats for not pushing for considerable change...but, like...we could ground it in what's happening instead of just half assing a George Carlin routine every time you don't get everything you want. Because when your critique is this generic, this dismissive...honestly, that's giving them a pass because you're not really paying attention. If your critique to all of this is "their corporate masters" you're a write off. If everything gets the same canned response that doesn't even try to engage with what is actually happening their lack of interest in your wants is self fulfilling.

Plus it'd be cool if people on a political debate forum to at least rise above the YouTube comments section in terms of engagement with a story.

Non paywall version of the story.

The plan being discussed would overwhelmingly hit companies in the Fortune 1000, many of which have seen record profits during the pandemic. The penalty probably would start almost immediately after the passage of legislation.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Senate Budget Committee Chairman Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., called on Democrats to pursue these levies after the party was dealt a setback on its original plan to raise the minimum wage.

The Senate's parliamentarian said Thursday that the $15-an-hour minimum wage is inadmissible under the rules of the procedure that Democrats are using to pass President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus bill with a narrow majority. The White House has ruled out overruling the parliamentarian, and centrist Democrats such as Sen. Joe Manchin III of West Virginia have said they would not change the rules of the filibuster in the Senate, imperiling the provision.

"It is cold comfort to know that majority support for raising the minimum wage could be meaningless because of arcane Senate rules," Wyden said in a statement last week. "We couldn't get in the front door or the back door, so we'll try to go through the window."

that's a nice screed and all
but my article was about that tax plan being abandoned

Farnhamia wrote:

Alcala-Cordel wrote:You mean like this or like this?


This is worth checking out too, as is some of the stuff mentioned here.

Uh huh. Soleimani was killed in Baghdad, which is not part of Iran. "Operation Praying Mantis was an attack on 18 April 1988, by the United States Armed Forces within Iranian territorial waters in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq War and the subsequent damage to an American warship." Are you saying the US isn't allowed to retaliate for attacks on its forces? As for supporting Iraq in that war, well, as short-sighted as it proved to be, Iraq was on our side. Or we were on their side. It was 33 years ago, who can remember that far back?

No, I'm saying it's an example of the US bombing Iran. You asked when the US ever did that, I pointed out a time that we did.

Also, I'm pretty sure Iran remembers.

Kowani wrote:

The Marlborough wrote:What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

so, to use an example of stuff that actually happens
the most widely owned ID here is a drivers' license, so that's what they'll pick as acceptable
but black people are substantially less likely to own one, because they're less likely to own a car
so instead, they'll have other forms of ID's for other things
so the GOP will make the ID's that black people disproportionately have invalid for voting
you can still use them for other stuff, but not to vote
then, they'll close down all the DMV's in black neighborhoods
so not only do you have to go to the DMV-which is notoriously slow, you gotta get transportation there and back (which you don't have), you better hope you have every single relevant document (and because the DMV's online services are terrible, the list is often inaccurate). Don't have those? More time and money tracking them down.

That's an issue of arbitrary gatekeeping driver's licenses as the only valid form of government ID for voting, not voter ID laws in of themselves, which the GOP uses to help prop up its support. You could probably take such arbitrariness to the courts in regards to discrimination if other forms of ID have the same information contained on driver's licenses.

Cannot think of a name wrote:The senate parliamentarian said that a raise in minimum wage was not eligible for budget reconciliation.

That's an advisory opinion, they can literally just ignore it.

Cannot think of a name wrote:In addition, 49 Democratic Senators are into it, Manchin isn't.

So pressure him. Threaten to support a primary against him in 2022 2024. Biden is much more popular than Manchin right now, and will only get more popular if he starts actually fighting for the things he promised.

The Marlborough wrote:You could probably take such arbitrariness to the courts in regards to discrimination if other forms of ID have the same information contained on driver's licenses.

It was taken to the courts, they ruled that the laws were targeted "with surgical precision."

Picairn wrote:

Kowani wrote:Senate Dems drop backup plan to raise the minimum wage by placing extra taxes on megacorporations who paid their employees less than $15 an hour

The plan was flawed and untested anyway. Another battle to fight in the next stimulus package.

The Marlborough wrote:What is it with American NSGers and unrealistic expectations on how the rest of the world is? I've looked up the fees for numerous forms of ID and most of them are in the $20-$40 range. That's about what it costs here in Canada for various forms of ID and even some of the poorest people I know have photo ID's because they are important for various other uses outside of voting to boot.

Can't blame Americans for being paranoid, the Repubs tried and are still trying to stop people from voting in any way possible.

Both parties participate in screwing over people's ability to vote. Democrats also like having elections on odd years.

The Marlborough wrote:Both parties participate in screwing over people's ability to vote.

That's a big problem isn't it?

The Marlborough wrote:

Kowani wrote:so, to use an example of stuff that actually happens
the most widely owned ID here is a drivers' license, so that's what they'll pick as acceptable
but black people are substantially less likely to own one, because they're less likely to own a car
so instead, they'll have other forms of ID's for other things
so the GOP will make the ID's that black people disproportionately have invalid for voting
you can still use them for other stuff, but not to vote
then, they'll close down all the DMV's in black neighborhoods
so not only do you have to go to the DMV-which is notoriously slow, you gotta get transportation there and back (which you don't have), you better hope you have every single relevant document (and because the DMV's online services are terrible, the list is often inaccurate). Don't have those? More time and money tracking them down.

That's an issue of arbitrary gatekeeping driver's licenses as the only valid form of government ID for voting, not voter ID laws in of themselves, which the GOP uses to help prop up its support.

you misunderstand
this is what happens every time
because the people writing the laws benefit from certain groups not having access to the ballot
unless that equation stops, or you get universal registration and ID provision at the federal level, it'll keep happening

You could probably take such arbitrariness to the courts in regards to discrimination if other forms of ID have the same information contained on driver's licenses.

do you think people haven't tried that
the Roberts' Court has been systematically stripping away the protections against discrimination introduced in the VRA for years

Senkaku wrote:

Galloism wrote:From us or Canada?

Because I feel like Canada would be super pissed about it.

So you don't think the US would be, then?

You don't think the US would react a bit more strongly to Iranian aircraft striking top-level American military targets in North America?

Probably we’d be super pissed about it. I just don’t think we’d say it was an attack on the United States if it occurred in Canada.

You’re right we’d probably do more than a few drone assassinations over it though.