American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[Diahon]

People are paid what they're worth.

citation needed

well, people are eminently replaceable, as last year has shown, so

[Greater Miami Shores]

People are paid what they're worth. Most minimum wage jobs could be done by a monkey. There's no reason to waste 15 an hour on a burger flipper, at that point just get a machine to do it.

uh huh

apart from the fact that an expensive piece of groundbreaking machinery ain't exactly a monkey, about that burger-flipping literal slave not-monkey... turns out hominids are still indispensable

I changed my mind and my views, I un endorse my previous endorsement.

[The Marlborough]

Are you guys still debating on whether or not it's justified for people to fight back against being evicted in the middle of winter while a global pandemic is going on and while the economy is in the shitter?

[Diahon]

Are you guys still debating on whether or not it's justified for people to fight back against being evicted in the middle of winter while a global pandemic is going on and while the economy is in the shitter?

not anymore, no

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

$15 minimum wage became ungettable almost a year ago, when Covid hit.

Indexation of the minimum wage is the go. It does nothing for a year or so, but its beneficial effect is indefinite into the future. And slip in a smaller baseline raise, some time between now and 2024. Not $15, but maybe $10 legislated on the same future trajectory as the $15.

Yeah. $10 minimum wage. It's a round number, that alone is enough to sell it.

A ten dollar minimum wage, even later pegged to inflation, solves few if any of the problems that a minimum wage increase is designed to solve, especially if placed on the same time scale as the $15 increase. The whole issue is that a $15 minimum wage is already far behind what it should have been by now, with regards to relative productivity and inflation.

If I offered you a $15 rate by 2026, or a $10 rate by 2023, you'd obviously choose the latter.

But how about I offer you odds. 30% chance of of $15 deal, or 80% chance of the $10 deal?

Now bear in mind that you fight an election in 2024, and whether the promise is kept completely ($15) or it is partially-going-forward-completed-only-if-we-get-reelected kept ($10), will be a very important issue in that election.

You don't want to risk it? You must take the shorter-term benefit that is more certain, over the longer term benefit that is uncertain. You reckon the odds and make a choice that is not ideal. Mitch McConnell plays this way, hell even George Bush plays this way. You don't forfeit the game just because you don't want to let the other team score anything. In political capital terms, promises are debt and sorta, above 50% paying them off beats the hell out of going bankrupt.

It's not the only issue. And it's sure as hell not the issue you want to fight an election over. The wage-earners who actually get minimum wage (set to the Federal rate not just floating there by convenience) is a few percent. After what Americans and their economy have been through, and will still be recovering from, minimum wage being something that a lot of workers can only envy, this is a "promise" you want to bank some of, whatever you can get, and then bury in time.

I thought it was weird that Dems were putting such a heavy amendment on essential bills. Then I realized they want it done early or not done at all. If nothing happens this year, it definitely won't be raised next year. Because $15 minimum wage is a promise for the base, and even a watered-down version isn't something you want to fight a mid-term with. "Those damn Repubs don't want a bit of Bernie, what the hell's wrong with them? Vote Democrat!"

Pass indexation of the minimum wage, ASAP. Drop it until after the mid-terms which you should win, you chickenshit Democrats. Yeah, party of the President making gains in the mid-term. You can do it, if you just "don't do stupid shit" and don't succumb to the fatalism of "$15 or bust".

[Greater Miami Shores]

citation needed

well, people are eminently replaceable, as last year has shown, so

Diahon, the reasons I un endorsed my previous endorsement was your link about the burger machines, not because the machines failed, because I strongly believe certain jobs should be performed by human workers. For example, I hate the self service counters at supermarkets, they limit and reduce the number of Supermarket clerks. I passed a law forbidding supermarkets to use self service counters at their businesses, on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

Also, I support using US based support staff at internet corporations and other businesses, not foreign workers in other nations, not using recordings to help customers.

All these laws and a few similar ones are all on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

I think I can do and should have done a better job at expressing myself on this post.

[The Republic of Fore]

People are paid what they're worth. Most minimum wage jobs could be done by a monkey. There's no reason to waste 15 an hour on a burger flipper, at that point just get a machine to do it.

I won't lie to you, bub. If you don't think a working class person--regardless of their occupation--shouldn't be paid a living wage then you need to reevaluate your moral compass.

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

[The Republic of Fore]

People are paid what they're worth. Most minimum wage jobs could be done by a monkey. There's no reason to waste 15 an hour on a burger flipper, at that point just get a machine to do it.

uh huh

apart from the fact that an expensive piece of groundbreaking machinery ain't exactly a monkey, about that burger-flipping literal slave not-monkey... turns out hominids are still indispensable

Sounds like the humans were the problem. And eventually the cost would break even. Especially with a higher minimum wage,

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

I won't lie to you, bub. If you don't think a working class person--regardless of their occupation--shouldn't be paid a living wage then you need to reevaluate your moral compass.

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

They did when they were born.

[Istoreya]

well, people are eminently replaceable, as last year has shown, so

Diahon, the reasons I un endorsed my previous endorsement was your link about the burger machines, not because the machines failed, because I strongly believe certain jobs should be performed by human workers. For example, I hate the self service counters at supermarkets, they limit and reduce the number of Supermarket clerks. I passed a law forbidding supermarkets to use self service counters at their businesses, on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

Also, I support using US based support staff at internet corporations and other businesses, not foreign workers in other nations, not using recordings to help customers.

All these laws and a few similar ones are all on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

I think I can do and should have done a better job at expressing myself on this post.

The real question is - how much do you think people doing those jobs should be paid after Diahon's source?

[Esalia]

I won't lie to you, bub. If you don't think a working class person--regardless of their occupation--shouldn't be paid a living wage then you need to reevaluate your moral compass.

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

Ah yes, people barely getting by in life, that demographic famed for their magical ability to instantly snap their fingers and make for-profit organisations that have a business incentive to pay them as little as they can get away with suddenly give them a living wage.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

I won't lie to you, bub. If you don't think a working class person--regardless of their occupation--shouldn't be paid a living wage then you need to reevaluate your moral compass.

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

They already are worth one. Get rid of half these folks for a day and society shuts down, but please do go on about how people deserve to end up living in a cardboard box cause they aren't the owners of a business.

[Umeria]

If I offered you a $15 rate by 2026, or a $10 rate by 2023, you'd obviously choose the latter.

The current $15 plan has it at $12.50 by 2023.

But how about I offer you odds. 30% chance of of $15 deal, or 80% chance of the $10 deal?

I would choose 30% of a living wage over 100% chance of not a living wage. If you agree to $10 then you waste your political capital and can't address the issue again.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Diahon, the reasons I un endorsed my previous endorsement was your link about the burger machines, not because the machines failed, because I strongly believe certain jobs should be performed by human workers. For example, I hate the self service counters at supermarkets, they limit and reduce the number of Supermarket clerks. I passed a law forbidding supermarkets to use self service counters at their businesses, on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

Also, I support using US based support staff at internet corporations and other businesses, not foreign workers in other nations, not using recordings to help customers.

All these laws and a few similar ones are all on my real world based nation of Greater Miami Shores.

I think I can do and should have done a better job at expressing myself on this post.

The real question is - how much do you think people doing those jobs should be paid after Diahon's source?

It depends on the costs and expenses of businesses and the ability of the businesses to sell the products at a reasonable price, as all private businesses all over the world do.

I am disappointed that you have not given me any credit for my post above, which goes deeper than I have explained with my bad English.

[Istoreya]

The real question is - how much do you think people doing those jobs should be paid after Diahon's source?

It depends on the costs and expenses of businesses and the ability of the businesses to sell the products at a reasonable price, as all private businesses all over the world do.

I am disappointed that you have not given me any credit for my post above, which goes deeper than I have explained with my bad English.

You know you don't need to go 'good post' every time someone makes a good post, right?
I appreciate that you think humans should do jobs over machines, but I'm curious if you think that those humans deserve to be paid enough to live on or if you think like Fore and that people who do those jobs are doing menial tasks and for some reason don't deserve as much.

[The Republic of Fore]

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

They did when they were born.

No they didn't. Someone with no skills isn't worth 15 an hour. Nobody is owed, or entitled to anything.

[Umeria]

They did when they were born.

No they didn't. Someone with no skills isn't worth 15 an hour. Nobody is owed, or entitled to anything.

Should disabled people exist?

[Arcturus Novus]

They did when they were born.

No they didn't. Someone with no skills isn't worth 15 an hour. Nobody is owed, or entitled to anything.

Everyone deserves the resources they need to survive.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

They did when they were born.

No they didn't. Someone with no skills isn't worth 15 an hour. Nobody is owed, or entitled to anything.

Like you do something more important than the factory workers who keep industry afloat but only get paid $13 an hour, or the food workers who keep you from having to spend your life as a farmer or hunter gatherer.

People deserve to live. And if you won't give them the means to, they'll take it instead and they'll take it from you and other people who deny them the basic right to survival.

[The Republic of Fore]

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

Ah yes, people barely getting by in life, that demographic famed for their magical ability to instantly snap their fingers and make for-profit organisations that have a business incentive to pay them as little as they can get away with suddenly give them a living wage.

Yup, I forgot pell grants and scholarships don't exist.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

They did when they were born.

No they didn't. Someone with no skills isn't worth 15 an hour. Nobody is owed, or entitled to anything.

Yes, they are. Human beings are entitled to a paying job, a living wage, affordable healthcare, the right to due process, and many other things that make a society free and fair for everyone.

I'm sorry to hear you have a callous disregard for people. I do not, cannot, and will not condemn anyone to a life of poverty and suffering because they aren't "skilled" enough; whatever the fuck that's even supposed to mean.

[Esalia]

Ah yes, people barely getting by in life, that demographic famed for their magical ability to instantly snap their fingers and make for-profit organisations that have a business incentive to pay them as little as they can get away with suddenly give them a living wage.

Yup, I forgot pell grants and scholarships don't exist.

I didn't realise that there were so many pell grants and scholarships that literally everyone who barely get by could just up and get one.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Yup, I forgot pell grants and scholarships don't exist.

I didn't realise that there were so many pell grants and scholarships that literally everyone who barely get buy could just up and get one.

Must be great living so far away from the poors that you understand nothing about poverty. I envy this dude.

[The Republic of Fore]

If they want a living wage they should make themselves worth one.

They already are worth one. Get rid of half these folks for a day and society shuts down, but please do go on about how people deserve to end up living in a cardboard box cause they aren't the owners of a business.

No they're not, they're doing no skill jobs that could be replaced in an instant. You don't have to own a business. Just don't whine that you deserve 20 an hour when you could be replaced in an instant with no real loss. Nurses in my area start at 22 an hour, or 23 for a BSN. Seems low for such an important job right? There's three nursing schools near here, and always a fresh crop of grads who are happy to take that 22 an hour. If you want more, you have to show why you're worth more.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

They already are worth one. Get rid of half these folks for a day and society shuts down, but please do go on about how people deserve to end up living in a cardboard box cause they aren't the owners of a business.

No they're not, they're doing no skill jobs that could be replaced in an instant. You don't have to own a business. Just don't whine that you deserve 20 an hour when you could be replaced in an instant with no real loss. Nurses in my area start at 22 an hour, or 23 for a BSN. Seems low for such an important job right? There's three nursing schools near here, and always a fresh crop of grads who are happy to take that 22 an hour. If you want more, you have to show why you're worth more.

Oh and you're so much more important to society than the factory workers and grocers, right Fore? You truly know what hard work is, not those lazy employees in the factory working overtime to make ends meet.

You can give people the means to live or we can live in the jungle and they can take it from you. There is no third option.