American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[Shrillland]

Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, defended her vote against President Trump, and said she does not care what happens to her political future if that is what most of her voters want and decide.

That would be hilarious. She quit as Governor of Alaska. Not to run for Vice President. She resigned. She gave up. She quit.

Alaskans respect a quitter, do they?

Erm...that's Sarah Palin you're talking about. Murkowski never quit anything, she's served three terms in the Senate, once as an independent.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

That would be hilarious. She quit as Governor of Alaska. Not to run for Vice President. She resigned. She gave up. She quit.

Alaskans respect a quitter, do they?

Think you're getting her mixed up with Sarah Palin. Murkowski was never Governor of Alaska.

They start to blur together. *shrug* Republican, Alaskan, female... gotta be Palin! Eh.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

The simile of currents is quite brilliant. When currents in the two parties align, it can blur the line between the parties temporarily, leading to a "bipartisan" bill.

Australia also has a Two Party system in the Parliament. (The Senate is too complicated to explain).

But party discipline is much stronger in both major parties, so "bipartisanship" means both parties vote together and individuals "crossing the floor" are unusual. It used to be political suicide for a member to do that frequently, as strong parties don't need to "primary" dissidents. There are no primaries, other than a vote of full members at the party branch level (called "preselection"). A member who dogged on the party stands very little chance of preselection, and this goes for all parties but the Greens who use a more democratic branch system. All that said, party discipline in Parliament only applies to final votes, and with the ruling party almost never having a majority in the Senate as well, the leaders listen carefully to their own (and perhaps Opposition) rather than ramming through extreme bills that will fail in the Senate.

Btw, the US could look at returning to one of the fundamentals of Parliamentary systems, which is that all bills must originate in the Lower House. The Senate still has powers to amend a bill and send it back, but not to set the agenda by originating a bill of its own. It actually states so in the US Constitution, but somehow the US Senate just over-wrote it with some ridiculous Senate Rule about only the bill NUMBER being protected from amendment.

Anyway, Australia has developed a more back-room kind of bipartisanship, more influenced by currents within the ruling party but not completely blind to currents within the other party. It's the Senate which forces such attention to detail, as a bill being blocked there is humiliating to Government, and if repeated can force an election or even see the government deposed and replaced by the Opposition in "caretaker mode" with an election soon after. That's only happened once, but it was catastrophic for that government (Whitlam 1975).

But in my opinion, bipartisanship in either US chamber is more like how it's supposed to work. Each party has to compromise with its moderates: because they're the most secure against being primary'd, but also because they're the most able to bring votes "across the aisle" and win a floor vote from the Opposition side.

Two Party is strongly determined by having members elected 1 at a time from geographical areas. Diversity from one area to another can break it up a bit (ie, UK) but still multi-party with single-member constituencies is unstable and tends towards one party having an outright majority. That is not true multi-party. Within the limits of the two party system, the 'rubber bags with currents' nature of the 2 US parties is a lot more flexible than the partisan talk suggests.

"Only 7 Republicans voted to convict a President of their own party". Yeah. 7. That's more than none.

It's all right, plenty of us know how STV works, and more will as RCV becomes more popular here. Party discipline is stronger down there because of preselection, certainly, but try telling voters in this country that primaries are a bad idea. As for our constitution, the Senate is only forbidden from introducing supply bills, they can introduce anything else besides those.

If you're referring to the Australian Senate, I think you'll find that almost no-one fully understands how it "works". There are no flaws in its design, other than the basic requirement of equal representation by state, and I consider the unpredictability of the last result (or two) to be a feature not a bug. However simple it is in principle it's fiendish in practice, hence why I never try to promote it to Americans. I think many years of STV becoming acceptable at the state level is necessary before it would be accepted as States having "equal suffrage in the Senate".

I'm not in favor of party loyalty. I don't even mind primaries, though there must be something between "you pay every year to have a say in this party" and "you can participate in our primary if you're a voter". Even if it's just wearing a party badge on weekends, I think something other than money should be required to show loyalty to one's party. And party loyalty as necessary should be won some other way than the threat of being de-selected.

[Myrensis]

Think you're getting her mixed up with Sarah Palin. Murkowski was never Governor of Alaska.

They start to blur together. *shrug* Republican, Alaskan, female... gotta be Palin! Eh.

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

They start to blur together. *shrug* Republican, Alaskan, female... gotta be Palin! Eh.

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

Maybe the bitter cold prompts politicos there to want to keep their seats warm, hereditary. xD

[Greater Miami Shores]

They start to blur together. *shrug* Republican, Alaskan, female... gotta be Palin! Eh.

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

Cool, I am the one who started this chat on Republican Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin.

[Shrillland]

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

Maybe the bitter cold prompts politicos there to want to keep their seats warm, hereditary. xD

Aye, but that's normally the House's job to have hereditary seats.

[Istoreya]

That's still not how it works. Facts are the truth. Opinions are how we feel and consider the truth. Opinions that outright deny facts are delusions.
You are not always wrong about Trump based on facts. Sometimes, sure, but not always. The important thing is that you are wrong based on public and popular opinion - for example, although it was not enough to convict, more people voted yes yesterday than no, meaning the more popular opinion is that Trump DID cause the violence at the Capitol.
So stop it with this alternative facts bullshit. There's only one truth and the rest is opinion formed around it. That's how the world works.

What I mean is your opinions are your opinions not your facts, and our opinions are our opinions not our facts.

This is correct, but you have been saying the opposite. I know your English isn't brilliant but please try and understand why we get frustrated when there's miscommunications and you do in fact claim opinions are factual, similarly with how nobody understood you were being sarcastic when you said you'd believe Trump if he said the earth was flat.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Maybe the bitter cold prompts politicos there to want to keep their seats warm, hereditary. xD

Aye, but that's normally the House's job to have hereditary seats.

But is it nepotism lite or nepotism trans fat?

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

That would be hilarious. She quit as Governor of Alaska. Not to run for Vice President. She resigned. She gave up. She quit.

Alaskans respect a quitter, do they?

Think you're getting her mixed up with Sarah Palin. Murkowski was never Governor of Alaska.

Damn, I snipped an extra paragraph.

Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, defended her vote against President Trump, and said she does not care what happens to her political future if that is what most of her voters want and decide.

Many of us hope, Republican Governor of Alaska Sarah Palin, challenges Lisa Murkowski, wins the primary and the general election.

That would be hilarious. She quit as Governor of Alaska. Not to run for Vice President. She resigned. She gave up. She quit.

Alaskans respect a quitter, do they?

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

They start to blur together. *shrug* Republican, Alaskan, female... gotta be Palin! Eh.

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

That's how she got the seat, but blaming someone for taking an appointment is rather mean.

In 2010 tea-party Joe Miller took the Republican primary off her. She ran as an Independent and beat him.

If she seems to be in any danger at all of being Primary'd again, I say invite her to run as a Democrat instead. Not just for this: she also saved the ACA.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

That's how she got the seat, but blaming someone for taking an appointment is rather mean.

In 2010 tea-party Joe Miller took the Republican primary off her. She ran as an Independent and beat him.

If she seems to be in any danger at all of being Primary'd again, I say invite her to run as a Democrat instead. Not just for this: she also saved the ACA.

I could be wrong, but I think there are quite a few Republicans in this cycle whose political careers may be over in the next 2-4 years. Hopefully.

[Shrillland]

In Murkowski's case it would be that Alaskans respect nepotism. She was appointed to her fathers vacant Senate seat...by her father after he stepped down to become Governor.

That's how she got the seat, but blaming someone for taking an appointment is rather mean.

In 2010 tea-party Joe Miller took the Republican primary off her. She ran as an Independent and beat him.

If she seems to be in any danger at all of being Primary'd again, I say invite her to run as a Democrat instead. Not just for this: she also saved the ACA.

Alaska's primaries are going to be a little different now, anyway. Now, it's a top-four jungle primary and then an RCV general.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

That's how she got the seat, but blaming someone for taking an appointment is rather mean.

In 2010 tea-party Joe Miller took the Republican primary off her. She ran as an Independent and beat him.

If she seems to be in any danger at all of being Primary'd again, I say invite her to run as a Democrat instead. Not just for this: she also saved the ACA.

Alaska's primaries are going to be a little different now, anyway. Now, it's a top-four jungle primary and then an RCV general.

That's great. She'll obviously make the top four, then neutral-or-better name recognition should get her second preferences even from some Dem voters.

[New haven america]

This does not mean anything.
Sure the US has other parties, but if you want to get elected you have to join the 2 big ones.

Again, forcing your representatives to vote with the party line is wanting a party dictatorship.
People have the right to think for themselves and not base everything on the party. That's what dictators do.

Do you like democracy?

ok. Yes I like democracy. I support a multi political party system of more than 2 political parties.

The problem is Republican President Trump and most Republican Trump supporters strongly believe there was massive Democrat vote fraud. Strongly believe President Trump is not guilty as charged, by the biased, partisan, Democrat Hypocrites as the Trump Defense Lawyers Proved.

President Trump received at least 74,216,154 votes in 2020. 11,231,326 more votes than in 2016. According to Wikipedia, a few other sources vary slightly. These are Proud Republican Trump supporters, Republican Senators and House Representatives should support the views of their voters.

If they don't support the views of their voters, than the voters vote them out in the primaries and perhaps the general elections of those who survived.

The same with Democrat voters and their views.

But we still live in western style multi political party nations with all their faults and merits. As I said, in the USA we actually have more than 2 political parties to choose from. We are not a dictatorship nation.

No you don't.

[Greater Miami Shores]

ok. Yes I like democracy. I support a multi political party system of more than 2 political parties.

The problem is Republican President Trump and most Republican Trump supporters strongly believe there was massive Democrat vote fraud. Strongly believe President Trump is not guilty as charged, by the biased, partisan, Democrat Hypocrites as the Trump Defense Lawyers Proved.

President Trump received at least 74,216,154 votes in 2020. 11,231,326 more votes than in 2016. According to Wikipedia, a few other sources vary slightly. These are Proud Republican Trump supporters, Republican Senators and House Representatives should support the views of their voters.

If they don't support the views of their voters, than the voters vote them out in the primaries and perhaps the general elections of those who survived.

The same with Democrat voters and their views.

But we still live in western style multi political party nations with all their faults and merits. As I said, in the USA we actually have more than 2 political parties to choose from. We are not a dictatorship nation.

No you don't.

Since I know your political views, I have no doubt of your views, which I respect your rights to them and your rights to post them.

Alberto - GMS.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

That's how she got the seat, but blaming someone for taking an appointment is rather mean.

In 2010 tea-party Joe Miller took the Republican primary off her. She ran as an Independent and beat him.

If she seems to be in any danger at all of being Primary'd again, I say invite her to run as a Democrat instead. Not just for this: she also saved the ACA.

I could be wrong, but I think there are quite a few Republicans in this cycle whose political careers may be over in the next 2-4 years. Hopefully.

Collins and Murkowski are both quite vulnerable. I suppose it's too much to ask of Democrats to go easy on those two?

The other party's moderates should feel safe in voting our way when it really matters to them. They're not safe from their own party, if the abomination of primary'ing incumbents is being bandied about, so what incentive is there for them if we don't "accept their surrender" and treat them gently? There could be a dozen more in the Senate, who would compromise with the government, but it's like running out into No Man's Land and shouting "For the glory of Incognitostan!"

Apparently Manchin has been approached many times to join the Republicans. Despite how easy that would make it for him to win WV, he's not interested. But just for now, that's worked out perfectly for him. He's part of the government, and his vote alone can stop a bill.

OK, I'll stop trying to recruit Murkowski. Taking some of Manchin's hard earned power off him would probably flip him after all.

[Shrillland]

I could be wrong, but I think there are quite a few Republicans in this cycle whose political careers may be over in the next 2-4 years. Hopefully.

Collins and Murkowski are both quite vulnerable. I suppose it's too much to ask of Democrats to go easy on those two?

The other party's moderates should feel safe in voting our way when it really matters to them. They're not safe from their own party, if the abomination of primary'ing incumbents is being bandied about, so what incentive is there for them if we don't "accept their surrender" and treat them gently? There could be a dozen more in the Senate, who would compromise with the government, but it's like running out into No Man's Land and shouting "For the glory of Incognitostan!"

Apparently Manchin has been approached many times to join the Republicans. Despite how easy that would make it for him to win WV, he's not interested. But just for now, that's worked out perfectly for him. He's part of the government, and his vote alone can stop a bill.

OK, I'll stop trying to recruit Murkowski. Taking some of Manchin's hard earned power off him would probably flip him after all.

Collins is far from vulnerable. She just got reelected last year, and while everybody thought she'd lose to Gideon in the eighth round, she ended up with a huge win in the first.

[The Alma Mater]

For the love of, stop replying to GMS for God's sake, what the Hell is wrong with you guys?!

We love him. On Valentines day.

[New haven america]

No you don't.

1. Since I know your political views, 2. I have no doubt of your views, 3. which I respect your rights to them and your rights to post them.

Alberto - GMS.

1. No you don't.
2. Due to ignorance, maybe.
3. I don't care if you respect something or not. You can't say you love democracy and then want to install a dictator in the US. It's like you didn't learn anything while living in Cuba.

[New haven america]

For the love of, stop replying to GMS for God's sake, what the Hell is wrong with you guys?!

It's 4 AM, I'm bored, don't feel like listening to the sound of dying trees.

[The Alma Mater]

Hmm, no. Reagans ideas on economics were retarted. Trump at least had some sense remaining.

Well on economics sure. But who holds the purse-strings?

Under Trump the Republicans held Congress at first, and right away produced a "trickle down" tax cut bill. "Didn't work for Reagan, won't work for us, now let's get out and sell this free money."

In my opinion, the one who first tried a half-baked idea deserves less blame than the one who tries it again for the third time!

Reagan knew his ideas were half-baked as well. While you can certainly argue that to keep doing things that do not work is dumb, Trump at last did so out of lazyness. I can respect that.

[Picairn]

We love him. On Valentines day.

Yikes.

[Greater Miami Shores]

For the love of, stop replying to GMS for God's sake, what the Hell is wrong with you guys?!

We love him. On Valentines day.

oh thank you - The Alma Mater.

To all of you who don't like me put me on ignore if you wish, because we strongly disagree on Republican President Donald J Trump.

I have been told by a few anti Trump Persons, we have tried to explain it to him for four years, but he does not listen to Facts. We have tried to educate him. He is a brick wall to talk too. What am I supposed to think?

Strange it does not happen on other issues only on Republican Trump related issues. Not even on Cuba and the Castro Brothers.

I will never agree with any persons on any issues I strongly disagree with them on. You guys will never agree with me or any persons who strongly disagree with you guys on any issues.

Alberto - GMS.

[The Alma Mater]

We love him. On Valentines day.

Yikes.

Come on, find some love in your heart.

Or at least some pity. Pretend you are Escanor if it helps.