American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[The Reformed American Republic]

Can we have a revolution and wipe the government slate clean?

[Dresderstan]

Can we have a revolution and wipe the government slate clean?

Yes please.

[Kowani]

Regardless, Trump will go with someone that's most likely going to be the loyalist- and someone that will lick his boot and only say yes. Given a majority of these type of choices are nut cases, I suspect it will only help with Trump Supporters and not key voters.

Then again, if the GOP does succeed in getting many of their voting restrictions passed, Trump could barely sneak a second term.

Making it harder to vote tends to make people only more determined to do so. There is is only so much you can do.

if this was true, the GOP wouldn't have been making it harder for people to vote for decades
and yet they do
almost like you're wrong and people have limits

[Senkaku]

What a fundamentally absurd comparison. You're making these points and in each case leaving out the most important details of FDR's record-- you know what the difference between him and Stalin is, in this case? Stalin killed millions of the Soviet civilians he interned; FDR did not (even though it was still wrong and people did die because of the terrible conditions). You really don't think that's a worthwhile distinction to draw, or that it's reasonable for that fact to differentiate our historical interpretations of their records?

And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.

Good thing I literally never said it did, and instead said "it's part of his legacy and it tarnishes it significantly." Are we maybe losing the thread of the conversation a bit? You do remember your initial question that I responded to was "how do you commit war crimes against your own people and still be one of the best Presidents. Explain it to me," right? And that I then tried to explain it to you, without minimizing or negating or excusing the fact that he violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of thousands of people by throwing them in concentration camps and letting people steal all their shit?

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Student loan forgiveness is a waste of money, as stimulus. And not that good as relief. All you need is an interest and payments freeze.

I happen to like it because I think that reducing indebtedness of younger generations could spur good things like increased homeownership.

What sense is there in giving $1400 to a millionaire? That's rubbish stimulus, unless you consider stock market investment to be "stimulus".

Found a paper I was looking for on this topic: Baugh et. al in the American Economic Review Vol. 111, No. 1 find that although less-liquid (often poorer) households were more likely to spend unexpected tax refunds, the effect still exists for more liquid households as well.

You'd prefer to give the same to everyone because simple looks like fair. Regardless of whether it's even optimally effective as stimulus.

That's not actually why, but go off, I guess.

You've stopped arguing the point. I'm happy with that.

The proposal is actually to start rolling-off the payment at $75 K individual (same as previously) but going to zero at $80 K (instead of $100 K)

Be sure to set this to Individual income. It says 75% of individual earners bring in $75 K or less.

I wouldn't define the top 25% as "the rich" however Democrats not doing much for them seems on-brand to me.

Also in the House bill was an increase of unemployment from $300/week to $400/week. Stimulus or not, this seems better targeted to preventing individual disaster, due to medium/high income earners being temporarily unemployed and trying to stay in the job market by staying in the cities.

[Senkaku]

Can we have a revolution and wipe the government slate clean?

No. Welcome to capitalist realism, the ride will be ending shortly.

[Punished UMN]

And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.

Good thing I literally never said it did, and instead said "it's part of his legacy and it tarnishes it significantly." Are we maybe losing the thread of the conversation a bit? You do remember your initial question that I responded to was "how do you commit war crimes against your own people and still be one of the best Presidents. Explain it to me," right? And that I then tried to explain it to you, without minimizing or negating or excusing the fact that he violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of thousands of people by throwing them in concentration camps and letting people steal all their shit?

The implication though is that it's some kind of summed-up thing, it's not, and as a result of a person's moral character not being summed-up, saying that he beat Hitler doesn't make him any better of a person, which was my point in bringing up Stalin.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Making it harder to vote tends to make people only more determined to do so. There is is only so much you can do.

if this was true, the GOP wouldn't have been making it harder for people to vote for decades
and yet they do
almost like you're wrong and people have limits

In support: people using postal voting definitely makes voting easier, it only requires planning in advance. 2020's postal votes definitely contributed to the outstanding turnout.

Turnout rates increased in every state compared with 2016, but of the 10 states where it rose the most, seven conducted November’s vote entirely or mostly by mail, our analysis shows. Six of those states had recently adopted all-mail voting, either permanently (Utah and Hawaii) or for the 2020 elections only (California, New Jersey, Vermont and most of Montana).

[Kowani]

NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up

[San Lumen]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... he-senate/

Klobuchar says she would be willing to kill the filibuster to pass HR1 a major voting rights bill. She apparently supports a return to what the filibuster once was which is talking without breaks and once you cannot anymore the bill comes to vote.

[Umeria]

due to medium/high income earners being temporarily unemployed

Uh, if they're unemployed they have no income

[Zurkerx]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/the-house-is-poised-to-pass-a-major-voting-rights-bill-and-create-a-helluva-battle-in-the-senate/

Klobuchar says she would be willing to kill the filibuster to pass HR1 a major voting rights bill.

I'm not sure if they could kill the filibuster, even for one particular vote, especially when Sinema and Manchin oppose ending the filibuster in general. Suffice to say, it's tough to say whether this will pass: I'm not sure where the likes of Manchin or Sinema stand on the bill. The best case scenario is that this bill passes 51-50 with an alter to filibuster rules.

Either way, this mostly addresses federal elections: there are also problems on the State level, which Democrats have neglected for years.

Hmm, now that I read it further, they have more options then I thought. Still, they will need every single Democrat to vote; they probably can get a Republican or two.

[Omniabstracta]

NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up

Careful with that one, lest the Musk stans hear you...

[Senkaku]

Good thing I literally never said it did, and instead said "it's part of his legacy and it tarnishes it significantly." Are we maybe losing the thread of the conversation a bit? You do remember your initial question that I responded to was "how do you commit war crimes against your own people and still be one of the best Presidents. Explain it to me," right? And that I then tried to explain it to you, without minimizing or negating or excusing the fact that he violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of thousands of people by throwing them in concentration camps and letting people steal all their shit?

The implication though is that it's some kind of summed-up thing, it's not, and as a result of a person's moral character not being summed-up, saying that he beat Hitler doesn't make him any better of a person, which was my point in bringing up Stalin.

People's legacies are the sum of their actions. People's character is a different thing. You won't hear me arguing that many leaders from the 20th century were really great dudes to hang out with and have in your life.

Him being considered a "great president" has nothing to do with his character, and that's what you asked about.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up

Most new designs blow up early in development. Five in a row ... isn't great I'll admit.

[Senkaku]

NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up

The Falcon 9 and the reusable guys blew up all the time too when they were in the prototype stage, I wouldn't get too flustered about it. One of the very few benefits of Elon being such an obscenely rich dickhead is that he can literally just keep shoveling money at them until they get it to work.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

due to medium/high income earners being temporarily unemployed

Uh, if they're unemployed they have no income

Previously medium/high-income, currently on little or no income (bear in mind assets they could sell) but trying to keep their residence in the hope of getting their old job back.

It makes sense for Democrats to help those people, firstly because not all Democrats are poor, but more because at this time they are income-poor.

Whether the $100 raise survives the Senate I'm not sure. It might be one of those things Manchin cares about, West Virginia having high unemployment at the best of times.

[San Lumen]

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/the-house-is-poised-to-pass-a-major-voting-rights-bill-and-create-a-helluva-battle-in-the-senate/

Klobuchar says she would be willing to kill the filibuster to pass HR1 a major voting rights bill.

I'm not sure if they could kill the filibuster, even for one particular vote, especially when Sinema and Manchin oppose ending the filibuster in general. Suffice to say, it's tough to say whether this will pass: I'm not sure where the likes of Manchin or Sinema stand on the bill. The best case scenario is that this bill passes 51-50 with an alter to filibuster rules.

Either way, this mostly addresses federal elections: there are also problems on the State level, which Democrats have neglected for years.
I really hope it does pass.
Hmm, now that I read it further, they have more options then I thought. Still, they will need every single Democrat to vote; they probably can get a Republican or two.

[Zurkerx]

I'm not sure if they could kill the filibuster, even for one particular vote, especially when Sinema and Manchin oppose ending the filibuster in general. Suffice to say, it's tough to say whether this will pass: I'm not sure where the likes of Manchin or Sinema stand on the bill. The best case scenario is that this bill passes 51-50 with an alter to filibuster rules.

Either way, this mostly addresses federal elections: there are also problems on the State level, which Democrats have neglected for years.

Hmm, now that I read it further, they have more options then I thought. Still, they will need every single Democrat to vote; they probably can get a Republican or two.

I really hope it does pass.

Fix that up a bit. Yeah, I do too but I won't get myself too excited, at least not yet.

[Umeria]

It makes sense for Democrats to help those people, firstly because not all Democrats are poor, but more because at this time they are income-poor.

I'd rather Democrats help all Americans, including people who'd never vote for them, but this is a start I guess

[Dresderstan]

It makes sense for Democrats to help those people, firstly because not all Democrats are poor, but more because at this time they are income-poor.

I'd rather Democrats help all Americans, including people who'd never vote for them, but this is a start I guess

They don't, they say they'll help but really it's solely for their own ego and power, doesn't help the "aid" they say is no where near enough to make a change.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

I'd rather Democrats help all Americans, including people who'd never vote for them, but this is a start I guess

They don't, they say they'll help but really it's solely for their own ego and power, doesn't help the "aid" they say is no where near enough to make a change.

Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

There's some point between 75% and 99% where a left-of-center government has to draw the line, and say "you people don't need government help, you've already helped yourself plenty".

That said, I wouldn't go much below 75%. It's political suicide to disdain the middle class.

[Dresderstan]

They don't, they say they'll help but really it's solely for their own ego and power, doesn't help the "aid" they say is no where near enough to make a change.

Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.

There's some point between 75% and 99% where a left-of-center government has to draw the line, and say "you people don't need government help, you've already helped yourself plenty".

That said, I wouldn't go much below 75%. It's political suicide to disdain the middle class.

They don't need help when they have the money in the world to help themselves, and the government no matter who it is regardless of ideology or party they don't care about the 99%, only themsleves and their rich business buddies.

[Kowani]

So apparently, Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) failed to report nearly $3 million in campaign raising and spending over the last two years, and now the FEC wants to know why

[Andsed]

NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up

Careful with that one, lest the Musk stans hear you...

I will never understand how Musk got so many fans.