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by The Reformed American Republic » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:53 pm
by Dresderstan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:54 pm
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Can we have a revolution and wipe the government slate clean?
by Kowani » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:59 pm
San Lumen wrote:Zurkerx wrote:
Regardless, Trump will go with someone that's most likely going to be the loyalist- and someone that will lick his boot and only say yes. Given a majority of these type of choices are nut cases, I suspect it will only help with Trump Supporters and not key voters.
Then again, if the GOP does succeed in getting many of their voting restrictions passed, Trump could barely sneak a second term.
Making it harder to vote tends to make people only more determined to do so. There is is only so much you can do.
by Senkaku » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:59 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Senkaku wrote:What a fundamentally absurd comparison. You're making these points and in each case leaving out the most important details of FDR's record-- you know what the difference between him and Stalin is, in this case? Stalin killed millions of the Soviet civilians he interned; FDR did not (even though it was still wrong and people did die because of the terrible conditions). You really don't think that's a worthwhile distinction to draw, or that it's reasonable for that fact to differentiate our historical interpretations of their records?
And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.
by A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:00 pm
Caninope wrote:A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:Student loan forgiveness is a waste of money, as stimulus. And not that good as relief. All you need is an interest and payments freeze.
I happen to like it because I think that reducing indebtedness of younger generations could spur good things like increased homeownership.What sense is there in giving $1400 to a millionaire? That's rubbish stimulus, unless you consider stock market investment to be "stimulus".
Found a paper I was looking for on this topic: Baugh et. al in the American Economic Review Vol. 111, No. 1 find that although less-liquid (often poorer) households were more likely to spend unexpected tax refunds, the effect still exists for more liquid households as well.You'd prefer to give the same to everyone because simple looks like fair. Regardless of whether it's even optimally effective as stimulus.
That's not actually why, but go off, I guess.
by Senkaku » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:00 pm
The Reformed American Republic wrote:Can we have a revolution and wipe the government slate clean?
by Punished UMN » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:02 pm
Senkaku wrote:Punished UMN wrote:And? That does not excuse that FDR committed arguably the biggest human rights violation in US history, in direct violation of the Constitution. His achievements don't negate that he put his own people in concentration camps, auctioned off their property, and deported tens of thousands of them for dubious reasons.
Good thing I literally never said it did, and instead said "it's part of his legacy and it tarnishes it significantly." Are we maybe losing the thread of the conversation a bit? You do remember your initial question that I responded to was "how do you commit war crimes against your own people and still be one of the best Presidents. Explain it to me," right? And that I then tried to explain it to you, without minimizing or negating or excusing the fact that he violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of thousands of people by throwing them in concentration camps and letting people steal all their shit?
by A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:06 pm
by Kowani » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:13 pm
by San Lumen » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm
by Zurkerx » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:22 pm
San Lumen wrote:https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/the-house-is-poised-to-pass-a-major-voting-rights-bill-and-create-a-helluva-battle-in-the-senate/
Klobuchar says she would be willing to kill the filibuster to pass HR1 a major voting rights bill.
by Omniabstracta » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:23 pm
Kowani wrote:NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up
by Senkaku » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:24 pm
Punished UMN wrote:Senkaku wrote:Good thing I literally never said it did, and instead said "it's part of his legacy and it tarnishes it significantly." Are we maybe losing the thread of the conversation a bit? You do remember your initial question that I responded to was "how do you commit war crimes against your own people and still be one of the best Presidents. Explain it to me," right? And that I then tried to explain it to you, without minimizing or negating or excusing the fact that he violated the constitutional rights of hundreds of thousands of people by throwing them in concentration camps and letting people steal all their shit?
The implication though is that it's some kind of summed-up thing, it's not, and as a result of a person's moral character not being summed-up, saying that he beat Hitler doesn't make him any better of a person, which was my point in bringing up Stalin.
by A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:26 pm
Kowani wrote:NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up
by Senkaku » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:28 pm
Kowani wrote:NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up
by A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:32 pm
by San Lumen » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:34 pm
Zurkerx wrote:San Lumen wrote:https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/03/the-house-is-poised-to-pass-a-major-voting-rights-bill-and-create-a-helluva-battle-in-the-senate/
Klobuchar says she would be willing to kill the filibuster to pass HR1 a major voting rights bill.
I'm not sure if they could kill the filibuster, even for one particular vote, especially when Sinema and Manchin oppose ending the filibuster in general. Suffice to say, it's tough to say whether this will pass: I'm not sure where the likes of Manchin or Sinema stand on the bill. The best case scenario is that this bill passes 51-50 with an alter to filibuster rules.
Either way, this mostly addresses federal elections: there are also problems on the State level, which Democrats have neglected for years.
I really hope it does pass.
Hmm, now that I read it further, they have more options then I thought. Still, they will need every single Democrat to vote; they probably can get a Republican or two.
by Zurkerx » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:37 pm
San Lumen wrote:Zurkerx wrote:
I'm not sure if they could kill the filibuster, even for one particular vote, especially when Sinema and Manchin oppose ending the filibuster in general. Suffice to say, it's tough to say whether this will pass: I'm not sure where the likes of Manchin or Sinema stand on the bill. The best case scenario is that this bill passes 51-50 with an alter to filibuster rules.
Either way, this mostly addresses federal elections: there are also problems on the State level, which Democrats have neglected for years.
Hmm, now that I read it further, they have more options then I thought. Still, they will need every single Democrat to vote; they probably can get a Republican or two.
I really hope it does pass.
by Umeria » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:37 pm
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:It makes sense for Democrats to help those people, firstly because not all Democrats are poor, but more because at this time they are income-poor.
by Dresderstan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:41 pm
by A-Series-Of-Tubes » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:01 pm
Dresderstan wrote:Umeria wrote:I'd rather Democrats help all Americans, including people who'd never vote for them, but this is a start I guess
They don't, they say they'll help but really it's solely for their own ego and power, doesn't help the "aid" they say is no where near enough to make a change.
by Dresderstan » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:03 pm
A-Series-Of-Tubes wrote:Dresderstan wrote:They don't, they say they'll help but really it's solely for their own ego and power, doesn't help the "aid" they say is no where near enough to make a change.
Trying to help everyone means helping the 1% as well.
There's some point between 75% and 99% where a left-of-center government has to draw the line, and say "you people don't need government help, you've already helped yourself plenty".
That said, I wouldn't go much below 75%. It's political suicide to disdain the middle class.
by Kowani » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:06 pm
by Andsed » Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:07 pm
Omniabstracta wrote:Kowani wrote:NASA, you gotta cancel that contract with SpaceX
They finally successfully landed a prototype...and then it blew up
Careful with that one, lest the Musk stans hear you...
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