American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[Greater Miami Shores]

Allowing driver's licenses (if that's what you mean) absolutely is suppression. Those who don't have one, have to get another ID specifically to vote. Those people's vote is being suppressed, the only way that matters, which is relatively.

Here's where you say it's not much hassle to get ID. But still enough hassle that people with other ID shouldn't have to.

Nup. You put the same impost on ALL intending voters, or you don't do it at all.

I said other government photo ID's should be allowed when it comes to voting.

I say 1 Voter ID - The ID - GMS.

[Umeria]

"Fight evil and lose than become evil and win". Dude, this is reality, not some kind of RPG game where you can just retry after losing.

So why lose with Manchin?

If the stimulus bill is withheld any longer, we might not be able to pass it before mid-March. The result would be disastrous for millions of Americans.

They could have passed $2000 in the first week if they used the methods I described.

Manchin won in a state that voted Trump by 27 points. The fact that he can win and hold his seat there alone is a miracle.

They vote Republican because they're conservative on social issues. Economically, West Virginians are populist and pro-union.

How? someone like Sanders or AOC or Omar is not going to win there or in states like it.

Not AOC or Omar, but a Sanders-like candidate certainly could. Remember that Vermont was quite conservative when he first won there.

Having a majority sometimes means you need more moderate people. Unless you want a permanent minority.

Letting radical conservatives like Manchin determine the direction of the party is effectively a permanent minority.

If Manchin had lost in 2018 Biden would be getting nothing done right now. His Cabinet wouldn't be confirmed and he'd get no judges on the bench

Wouldn't be a problem if corporate Democrats hadn't lost easily winnable races in Maine and North Carolina.

but none of that matters only we get pure progressives because surely that a winning ticket.

I'm not talking about "pure progressives", I'm talking about having bare minimum standards. You have standards too, don't you? Would you vote for a Democrat if they believed in QAnon, for example?

Someone progressive was nominated in West Virginia in 2020 and they only got 27 percent of the vote. Do you not see how ridiculous your being here?

It's irrelevant to the point that you can pressure Manchin with a primary. He wants to keep his seat, he doesn't care whether his ouster wins a general or not.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Allowing driver's licenses (if that's what you mean) absolutely is suppression. Those who don't have one, have to get another ID specifically to vote. Those people's vote is being suppressed, the only way that matters, which is relatively.

Here's where you say it's not much hassle to get ID. But still enough hassle that people with other ID shouldn't have to.

Nup. You put the same impost on ALL intending voters, or you don't do it at all.

I said other government photo ID's should be allowed when it comes to voting.

And I said that is voter suppression of people who don't already have photo ID's.

I suspect you're never going to see this from the point of view of someone currently holding no ID. They don't deserve rights, since they're obviously poor as dirt.

[Umeria]

It matters for nominations too. That "no new Justices in an election year" would get a footnote: "... or any other year."

Agreed, you want someone to vote for your nominations. Don't you also want him to vote for your laws?

A compromise like $12 minimum wage (sooner) would be better than it staying at $7, and if you bear in mind that last time Democrats raised the minimum wage it was in three annual steps (beginning 2007), you could have $9 right away, $10.50 next year, and $12 in 2023. And that's even if Democrats lose the Senate at the next mid-term. All they need is the House to prevent it being repealed.

Manchin's proposed compromise was $11 over the same timeframe as the $15 plan iirc.

But I know. Never take the compromise because it uses up political capital. Also Bernie would cry.

What? I don't care what Sanders thinks, I care about giving people a living wage.

[San Lumen]

"Fight evil and lose than become evil and win". Dude, this is reality, not some kind of RPG game where you can just retry after losing.

So why lose with Manchin?

If the stimulus bill is withheld any longer, we might not be able to pass it before mid-March. The result would be disastrous for millions of Americans.

They could have passed $2000 in the first week if they used the methods I described.

Manchin won in a state that voted Trump by 27 points. The fact that he can win and hold his seat there alone is a miracle.

They vote Republican because they're conservative on social issues. Economically, West Virginians are populist and pro-union.

How? someone like Sanders or AOC or Omar is not going to win there or in states like it.

Not AOC or Omar, but a Sanders-like candidate certainly could. Remember that Vermont was quite conservative when he first won there.

Having a majority sometimes means you need more moderate people. Unless you want a permanent minority.

Letting radical conservatives like Manchin determine the direction of the party is effectively a permanent minority.

If Manchin had lost in 2018 Biden would be getting nothing done right now. His Cabinet wouldn't be confirmed and he'd get no judges on the bench

Wouldn't be a problem if corporate Democrats hadn't lost easily winnable races in Maine and North Carolina.

but none of that matters only we get pure progressives because surely that a winning ticket.

I'm not talking about "pure progressives", I'm talking about having bare minimum standards. You have standards too, don't you? Would you vote for a Democrat if they believed in QAnon, for example?

Someone progressive was nominated in West Virginia in 2020 and they only got 27 percent of the vote. Do you not see how ridiculous your being here?

It's irrelevant to the point that you can pressure Manchin with a primary. He wants to keep his seat, he doesn't care whether his ouster wins a general or not.

Someone like who you want won the primary in West Virginia and lost in a landslide so my point is proven. Manchin only won in 2018 by a little under 20,000 votes.

Define corporate democrat.

It’s highly unlikely you’d get a Qanon supporter nominated by Democrats.

[Kowani]

Biden has finally decided to jump into the ongoing Amazon union election in Alabama, supporting the right of workers to unionize

[Umeria]

Someone like who you want won the primary in West Virginia and lost in a landslide so my point is proven.

What is your point exactly? That we shouldn't pressure congresspeople?

Define corporate democrat.

Pro-corporatism democrat, but I'm not saying their ideology is why they lost. They lost because they ran terrible campaigns, making mistakes that someone more in tune with voters wouldn't have made.

It’s highly unlikely you’d get a Qanon supporter nominated by Democrats.

But if that happened would you vote for them? Remember that the alternative is a Republican.

[San Lumen]

Someone like who you want won the primary in West Virginia and lost in a landslide so my point is proven.

What is your point exactly? That we shouldn't pressure congresspeople?

Define corporate democrat.

Pro-corporatism democrat, but I'm not saying their ideology is why they lost. They lost because they ran terrible campaigns, making mistakes that someone more in tune with voters wouldn't have made.

It’s highly unlikely you’d get a Qanon supporter nominated by Democrats.

But if that happened would you vote for them? Remember that the alternative is a Republican.

Pressuring with a primary that could result in losing the seat? No. Manchin only won by slightly under 20000 votes in 2018. A candidate like what you want only got 27 percent of the vote there in 2020. What makes you think they’d get a majority in 2024?

What made their campaigns terrible?

I’m not going to indulge ridiculous hypotheticals. Qanon candidates have been solely Republicans and that's unlikely to change.

[Kowani]

Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) has finally admitted that Biden won a fair election

[San Lumen]

Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) has finally admitted that Biden won a fair election

Congrats to him on finally admitting reality. I can’t believe I have to even say that.

[Shu Chengdu]

Sen. Rick Scott (R-FL) has finally admitted that Biden won a fair election

Congrats to him on finally admitting reality. I can’t believe I have to even say that.

What’s sadder than that is that simple admission may cost him being re-elected. By “sad” I mean he finally as you said admits to reality only for his voter base to disavow him for disputing Trump’s denial.

[Umeria]

Pressuring with a primary that could result in losing the seat? No.

So you don't want to take risks? Just let Manchin block your agenda?

What made their campaigns terrible?

They ran a large number of in-state fundraising ads even though they already had plenty of money from out-of-state donations, among other things.

I’m not going to indulge ridiculous hypotheticals. Qanon candidates have been solely Republicans and that's unlikely to change.

Okay, what are your top 10 issues? Immigration, perhaps? Reproductive rights? What if a Democrat disagreed with you on all of them, would you vote for him?

[San Lumen]

Congrats to him on finally admitting reality. I can’t believe I have to even say that.

What’s sadder than that is that simple admission may cost him being re-elected. By “sad” I mean he finally as you said admits to reality only for his voter base to disavow him for disputing Trump’s denial.

He’s not up for a second term until 2024.

[San Lumen]

Pressuring with a primary that could result in losing the seat? No.

So you don't want to take risks? Just let Manchin block your agenda?

What made their campaigns terrible?

They ran a large number of in-state fundraising ads even though they already had plenty of money from out-of-state donations, among other things.

I’m not going to indulge ridiculous hypotheticals. Qanon candidates have been solely Republicans and that's unlikely to change.

Okay, what are your top 10 issues? Immigration, perhaps? Reproductive rights? What if a Democrat disagreed with you on all of them, would you vote for him?

I’d rather have a majority in the senate.

What’s bad about in state fundraising?

Someone like that is not winning a primary in my area or for statewide office in New York.

Why just him and not her?

[Great Pacific Switzerland]

Until plurality voting goes away, any third party that amasses a significant portion of the vote will either be rolled into one of the existing two major parties or replace it within a few election cycles.

Anything that keeps Republicans out of power is a good thing.

Democrats: MORE NEOLIBERALIST WARS, MORE PROGRESSIVE REFORMS, FUCK THE WORKERS #LGBT
Republicans: MORE NEOCON WARS, MORE OIL, FUCK THE WORKERS, #STOPTHESTEAL

[Shu Chengdu]

What’s sadder than that is that simple admission may cost him being re-elected. By “sad” I mean he finally as you said admits to reality only for his voter base to disavow him for disputing Trump’s denial.

He’s not up for a second term until 2024.

What I’m loosely suggesting is that he’s risking alienating himself from the majority GOP by accepting this base reality.

[Umeria]

I’d rather have a majority in the senate.

You don't have a majority if your supposed allies keep voting with the other side.

What’s bad about in state fundraising?

Nothing unless your fundraising ads drown out your actual message to voters. People look at your name and say "I don't know anything about this guy except that he kept asking me for money."

Someone like that is not winning a primary in my area or for statewide office in New York.

We're talking about West Virginia voters aren't we? Put yourself in their shoes. The democrat disagrees with you on every single issue you care about. Would you vote for them?

[Kowani]

What made their campaigns terrible?

start here, then go here, and then this.

and all of those were winnable

jaime harrison, amy mcgrath, they never had a chance, even if they'd run the greatest campaign possible

[San Lumen]

I’d rather have a majority in the senate.

You don't have a majority if your supposed allies keep voting with the other side.

What’s bad about in state fundraising?

Nothing unless your fundraising ads drown out your actual message to voters. People look at your name and say "I don't know anything about this guy except that he kept asking me for money."

Someone like that is not winning a primary in my area or for statewide office in New York.

We're talking about West Virginia voters aren't we? Put yourself in their shoes. The democrat disagrees with you on every single issue you care about. Would you vote for them?

What part of he won by 20000 votes and someone further to the left cannot win in West Virginia is so difficult for you to understand?

If I lived in West Virginia I would have voted for Manchin if that’s what your asking.

[Umeria]

Why just him and not her?

I'm kind of alluding to Joe Manchin here.

What part of he won by 20000 votes and someone further to the left cannot win in West Virginia is so difficult for you to understand?

I completely agree that primarying Manchin means his seat will probably go to a Republican. That's what's called a risk. If you don't take that risk, Manchin won't do anything you want, effectively turning him into a Republican.

If I lived in West Virginia I would have voted for Manchin if that’s what your asking.

So you don't have standards.

[San Lumen]

Why just him and not her?

I'm kind of alluding to Joe Manchin here.

What part of he won by 20000 votes and someone further to the left cannot win in West Virginia is so difficult for you to understand?

I completely agree that primarying Manchin means his seat will probably go to a Republican. That's what's called a risk. If you don't take that risk, Manchin won't do anything you want, effectively turning him into a Republican.

If I lived in West Virginia I would have voted for Manchin if that’s what your asking.

So you don't have standards.

It’s a risk I’m not willing to take. Had he lost in 2018 Biden would not be getting anything done and would not have a cabinet or get any judges nominated. Why don’t you see this?

I do have standards and they include nominating people who can win.

[Umeria]

It’s a risk I’m not willing to take. Had he lost in 2018 Biden would not be getting anything done and would not have a cabinet or get any judges nominated. Why don’t you see this?

Turns out we're not talking about pressuring him in 2018, we're talking about pressuring him now.

I do have standards and they include nominating people who can win.

So if you're in a deep red district you should only vote for Republicans? Because they're the only ones who can win.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

What part of he won by 20000 votes and someone further to the left cannot win in West Virginia is so difficult for you to understand?

I completely agree that primarying Manchin means his seat will probably go to a Republican. That's what's called a risk. If you don't take that risk, Manchin won't do anything you want, effectively turning him into a Republican.

He's pretty old and might not even run again. Threatening him will only turn him mean. Being super-nice to him is a better idea: play on his loyalty to the party which is beyond question. And maybe the Big Space Thing for WV, I'm thinking half a billion of top quality construction materials, a basic wire fence, and then forget where we left that stuff. That's just phase one of course ...

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

It’s a risk I’m not willing to take. Had he lost in 2018 Biden would not be getting anything done and would not have a cabinet or get any judges nominated. Why don’t you see this?

Turns out we're not talking about pressuring him in 2018, we're talking about pressuring him now.

I do have standards and they include nominating people who can win.

So if you're in a deep red district you should only vote for Republicans? Because they're the only ones who can win.

Manchin is one of a kind. It's not just that he's so centrist, they just love him for some reason.

If you live in a deep red district, you can vote for anyone you please. It's not going to make any difference.

[Umeria]

I completely agree that primarying Manchin means his seat will probably go to a Republican. That's what's called a risk. If you don't take that risk, Manchin won't do anything you want, effectively turning him into a Republican.

He's pretty old and might not even run again. Threatening him will only turn him mean. Being super-nice to him is a better idea: play on his loyalty to the party which is beyond question. And maybe the Big Space Thing for WV, I'm thinking half a billion of top quality construction materials, a basic wire fence, and then forget where we left that stuff. That's just phase one of course ...

Ok so we agree that he needs to be pressured, we just have different ideas on how to do so.

Manchin is one of a kind. It's not just that he's so centrist, they just love him for some reason.

He's very conservative on social issues. Incumbency is also a factor.

If you live in a deep red district, you can vote for anyone you please. It's not going to make any difference.

You could try to make it less red.