American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[San Lumen]

I never said there was nothing wrong yet you act like they get everything and you get nothing and your stance is they should pay for everything themselves and if there isn't enough money to pay for transit upgrades, utility repairs or major projects oh well?

The gateway project in NYC is a major project to replace two aging railway tunnels that if they collapse would be a disaster. Federal funding will likely be going to that project which means your tax dollars.

NYC faces an even greater disaster in the future with the aging water pipes that supply its water from upstate. They are wood and were built in the late 19th century. They have to be replaced soon or NYC will face humanitarian crisis when they collapse.

Its a project they will require federal funding. Or should NYC and counties just pay for it themselves and the federal government and state government say "your on your own. A farmers tax dollars in Cayuga county shouldn't pay for that."

Because they should, the rich should be taxed but fun fact, they fucking don't.

NYC and local counties should pay for it, because if it affects a certain area of the state, that part should have increased taxes, especially in cities on big corporations and the 1%, not the fucking 99% who can barely make ends meet and work paycheck to paycheck.

And where are they supposed to get the money? Grow it on trees? The amount of taxes that would be required would make the areas unlivable for most.

It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars be a years long project and neither the city or the metro area counties have the means to get the tax revenue to pay for it on their own. Its simply not feasible but your response would be just let them collapse?

[Dresderstan]

Because they should, the rich should be taxed but fun fact, they fucking don't.

NYC and local counties should pay for it, because if it affects a certain area of the state, that part should have increased taxes, especially in cities on big corporations and the 1%, not the fucking 99% who can barely make ends meet and work paycheck to paycheck.

And where are they supposed to get the money? Grow it on trees? The amount of taxes that would be required would make the areas unlivable for most.

It will hundreds of millions of dollars and neither the city or the metro area counties have the means to get the tax revenue to pay for it on their own. Its simply not feasible but your response would be just let them collapse?

I literally just said tax the fucking rich, or maybe NYC should learn how to budget their resources correctly.

[The Marlborough]

Oh stop.

He said that it's not easy for a rich person to get into heaven. Because they're so fortunate in this life they've got a huge responsibility to the poor. There's nothing wrong with being rich.

He said it's as easy for them to get into heaven as it is to accomplish something physically impossible. He said this while telling people to give away all their money. Maybe stop making excuses for the rich?

This was more about how rich people wouldn't be charitable and further would let their desire for wealth to corrupt their moral decisions. This doesn't apply to all rich people, some of whom do give quite generously in charity nor let their wealth corrupt their moral compass.

[Sundiata]

We want the rich to give to the poor, I know, I know.

I just don't think that taxation or calls for the public financing of elections is practical if our culture reinforces the idea that it's good to live excessively for oneself.

I don't want the rich to give to the poor, I want the rich to have their wealth taken back by the people who created it and put to use meeting human needs.

I don't think that's an accurate perception of history. If people didn't establish companies where would people work? People who get rich have just as much a hand in their success as the people who work for them. Come on man.

[Spirit of Hope]

Maybe NYC shouldn’t be paying for expansions of the transport network when their current infrastructure is in such disrepair. Maybe they should do what MARTA does and pay for the upgrades first and expand later. Even if it means pushing the expansions down the line.

That’s what us poor and lower class guys have to do. We have to pay for upkeep first before we can pay for luxuries. It’s called budgeting, maybe NYC should try it.

^^^This, fucking this

I'd hardly call expanding the public transport infrastructure of a city a luxury, it is a necessity in a growing city. Who do you think uses the subway? It isn't the wealthy, it is generally the poor and working class who use public transportation. While you can, and should, use taxes as part of public infrastructure repair/expansion it isn't like anyone can magically wave a wand to increase taxes on the rich.

[San Lumen]

And where are they supposed to get the money? Grow it on trees? The amount of taxes that would be required would make the areas unlivable for most.

It will hundreds of millions of dollars and neither the city or the metro area counties have the means to get the tax revenue to pay for it on their own. Its simply not feasible but your response would be just let them collapse?

I literally just said tax the fucking rich, or maybe NYC should learn how to budget their resources correctly.

Again if it was that simple why don't they do it?

Budget their resources? Do you have a freaking clue how anything operates? Its apparent you don't and would rather just disparage cities.

There is almost zero way they could pay for it themselves without making the surrounding counties and city unlivable for anyone but the wealthy.

[The Black Forrest]

Really? They wouldn’t? These cities have millions of people living there, you don’t think they can’t tax them? Or tax the rich fucks who live there?

Taxing the rich is bad though. What would we do if the billionaires had .1% less net worth?

Indeed. I forget where I read it. Somebody explained we could take enough money from the 600ish billionaires and give all Americans a $3000 check and the billionaires will still have a great deal of money then they had before the ex-president bailed them out.

[Spirit of Hope]

I don't want the rich to give to the poor, I want the rich to have their wealth taken back by the people who created it and put to use meeting human needs.

I don't think that's an accurate perception of history. If people didn't establish companies where would people work? People who get rich have just as much a hand in their success as the people who work for them. Come on man.

Not really. Jeff Bezos isn't one of the richest men in the world because he was a genius and Amazon is solving all of the worlds problems. It is because his business ruthlessly exploits people, including paying minimum wage, heavily fighting unions, pushing for impossible work standards, etc.

A basic reminder, wage theft in the US steals more money than all other forms of theft combined.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Taxing the rich is bad though. What would we do if the billionaires had .1% less net worth?

Indeed. I forget where I read it. Somebody explained we could take enough money from the 600ish billionaires and give all Americans a $3000 check and the billionaires will still have a great deal of money then they had before the ex-president bailed them out.

That is very true yes, I remember the article and the math behind it. We could also buy homes and pay them off entirely for every homeless person in the nation and it wouldn't even make a noticeable dent in the 1%'s wealth.

[Dresderstan]

I literally just said tax the fucking rich, or maybe NYC should learn how to budget their resources correctly.

Again if it was that simple why don't they do it?

Budget their resources? Do you have a freaking clue how anything operates? Its apparent you don't and would rather just disparage cities.

There is almost zero way they could pay for it themselves without making the surrounding counties and city unlivable for anyone but the wealthy.

I told you how many fucking times, yet you're too fucking stubborn to listen. They won't because if they do they will lose support from those same rich pricks who line their pockets and turn blind eyes to the blatant corporate corruption that goes on.

You know nothing about monetary issues, if NYC can't budget their resources and get the adequate taxes, that's the cities fault.

Tax the fucking rich.

[The Black Forrest]

I don't think that's an accurate perception of history. If people didn't establish companies where would people work? People who get rich have just as much a hand in their success as the people who work for them. Come on man.

Not really. Jeff Bezos isn't one of the richest men in the world because he was a genius and Amazon is solving all of the worlds problems. It is because his business ruthlessly exploits people, including paying minimum wage, heavily fighting unions, pushing for impossible work standards, etc.

A basic reminder, wage theft in the US steals more money than all other forms of theft combined.

Silly boy. American workers are extremely over paid and American executives are extremely underpaid. Who will think of the corporate executives.

[Thermodolia]

Because they should, the rich should be taxed but fun fact, they fucking don't.

NYC and local counties should pay for it, because if it affects a certain area of the state, that part should have increased taxes, especially in cities on big corporations and the 1%, not the fucking 99% who can barely make ends meet and work paycheck to paycheck.

And where are they supposed to get the money? Grow it on trees? The amount of taxes that would be required would make the areas unlivable for most.

It will cost hundreds of millions of dollars be a years long project and neither the city or the metro area counties have the means to get the tax revenue to pay for it on their own. Its simply not feasible but your response would be just let them collapse?

Maybe they tax the companies and rich? Maybe you don’t start new construction when the existing system is in disrepair?

You don’t start building a new room of your house when your house is falling apart

[Sundiata]

In a just world there would be no reason to envy the rich.

Again if it was that simple why don't they do it?

Budget their resources? Do you have a freaking clue how anything operates? Its apparent you don't and would rather just disparage cities.

There is almost zero way they could pay for it themselves without making the surrounding counties and city unlivable for anyone but the wealthy.

I told you how many fucking times, yet you're too fucking stubborn to listen. They won't because if they do they will lose support from those same rich pricks who line their pockets and turn blind eyes to the blatant corporate corruption that goes on.

You know nothing about monetary issues, if NYC can't budget their resources and get the adequate taxes, that's the cities fault.

Tax the fucking rich.

Stop yelling at my friend.

[The Marlborough]

Tbf there seems to be a genuine growing exodus from NYC so I mean in the end it doesn't really matter.

[Washington Resistance Army]

In a just world there would be no reason to envy the rich.

In a just world the rich wouldn't exist.

[Thermodolia]

I don't think that's an accurate perception of history. If people didn't establish companies where would people work? People who get rich have just as much a hand in their success as the people who work for them. Come on man.

Not really. Jeff Bezos isn't one of the richest men in the world because he was a genius and Amazon is solving all of the worlds problems. It is because his business ruthlessly exploits people, including paying minimum wage, heavily fighting unions, pushing for impossible work standards, etc.

A basic reminder, wage theft in the US steals more money than all other forms of theft combined.

Hell uber and co got busted because they shorted the fuck out of their gig employees, Amazon does the same. Why do ya think those companies are the biggest supporters of automation? It’s not so that it would help people but so that they could line their pockets

[Thermodolia]

^^^This, fucking this

I'd hardly call expanding the public transport infrastructure of a city a luxury, it is a necessity in a growing city. Who do you think uses the subway? It isn't the wealthy, it is generally the poor and working class who use public transportation. While you can, and should, use taxes as part of public infrastructure repair/expansion it isn't like anyone can magically wave a wand to increase taxes on the rich.

It’s definitely not a luxury but when the only option is taking money from the rural poor to expand your system when your own system is falling apart at the seams then you definitely have a budgeting problem

[The Black Forrest]

Not really. Jeff Bezos isn't one of the richest men in the world because he was a genius and Amazon is solving all of the worlds problems. It is because his business ruthlessly exploits people, including paying minimum wage, heavily fighting unions, pushing for impossible work standards, etc.

A basic reminder, wage theft in the US steals more money than all other forms of theft combined.

Hell uber and co got busted because they shorted the fuck out of their gig employees, Amazon does the same. Why do ya think those companies are the biggest supporters of automation? It’s not so that it would help people but so that they could line their pockets

Yea I remember talking to an uber gal. She said before the IPO it was not a bad setup. Not really something to live off and yet as a second job; it wasn't bad. After the IPO the talk changed to we have to take care of the stock holders and they saw a large drop in pay.

[The Marlborough]

Also what are we defining as "rich" here?

[Omniabstracta]

That’s why you change the culture, and taxation and public financing of elections are the ways to help that along. Saying oh we can’t do that because xyz isn’t going to help anything

Ok then, how do you get congress to pass a constitutional amendment to publicly finance elections? Why would they put their wins at risk? They've already won their seats and probably have enough revenue to win their next term. If they don't have enough revenue they've got reliable donors.

“Why should the corrupt be less corrupt?”

Your entire argument here isn’t that what Therm wants is bad, or that it’s not practical based on its merits, it’s that politicians are corrupt and it’s their prerogative to stay corrupt and divert any positive change down the line. Can you really not see how pointlessly apathetic that position is?

A politician’s job isn’t to stay in office, their job is to represent the people they were elected to fucking represent. If they’re choosing to perpetuate a system that keeps themselves in office at the expense of the democratic interests of their constituents, you shouldn’t just go “oh well, they can do whatever and they’re always going to be able to get away with it, that’s fine,” you should be angry that they’re derelict in their duties as public servants.

These people do not need to be defended, and this sort of blanket acceptance of the status quo is exactly why they keep getting away with the things they do.

[Senkaku]

In a just world there would be no reason to envy the rich.

What does this even mean?

[Thermodolia]

Tbf there seems to be a genuine growing exodus from NYC so I mean in the end it doesn't really matter.

There’s a growing exodus from all major cities because they seem to be extremely mismanaged.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Also what are we defining as "rich" here?

Anyone with a net worth more than a couple million tbh. I don't have a problem with people being successful, but there comes a time when your personal success begins to harm others.

[Valrifell]

I never said there was nothing wrong yet you act like they get everything and you get nothing and your stance is they should pay for everything themselves and if there isn't enough money to pay for transit upgrades, utility repairs or major projects oh well?

The gateway project in NYC is a major project to replace two aging railway tunnels that if they collapse would be a disaster. Federal funding will likely be going to that project which means your tax dollars.

NYC faces an even greater disaster in the future with the aging water pipes that supply its water from upstate. They are wood and were built in the late 19th century. They have to be replaced soon or NYC will face humanitarian crisis when they collapse.

Its a project they will require federal funding. Or should NYC and counties just pay for it themselves and the federal government and state government say "your on your own. A farmers tax dollars in Cayuga county shouldn't pay for that."

Maybe NYC shouldn’t be paying for expansions of the transport network when their current infrastructure is in such disrepair. Maybe they should do what MARTA does and pay for the upgrades first and expand later. Even if it means pushing the expansions down the line.

That’s what us poor and lower class guys have to do. We have to pay for upkeep first before we can pay for luxuries. It’s called budgeting, maybe NYC should try it.

Silly point, municipal and personal finance are two nearly completely unrelated things, this is an argument for austerity and you absolutely should not support austerity.

[Thermodolia]

Also what are we defining as "rich" here?

The top 1%