American Politics IV: 1400 Reasons Why(A Stimulus Serial)

[Valrifell]

And you're not going to accomplish anything by trying to argue with a Trump supporter, depending on how deep they're in. This has been proven since we've had five years of takedowns, explanations, and arguments of all sorts and his support base hasn't budged very much at all.

You'd be surprised what can be accomplished when you cease to approach people with innate hostility to them and their beliefs. That is the common factor in all failures.

There's another thing; the underlying issues that motivated people to vote for (and believe in) Trump are still present, if not worse than they were in 2016.

I'm not approaching these people with hostility, just resignation. I'm sorry if you've read that hostility into my posts but that wasn't really my intention, of course some of their beliefs should be met with hostility but the people themselves are (mostly) okay. Of course I'm absolutely not convinced I would be met with the same attitude.

Don't get me wrong, either, I support fixing the issues (except the race-related, "culture war" ones) that made opened these people up to manipulative rhetoric and conspiracy theories that defines Trump.

[Sundiata]

I don't know about poverty in America? That's not true. I've spent a lot of time serving others and giving to the needy. It's just not right to brag about works of mercy. I'm not an out of touch elite, I get how hard life can be.

Also, I don't have to have anything in common with the poor to practice the virtue of charity. When I say that the Americans are not victims, it's true. They're extraordinarily privileged people if you compare them to their predecessors and most people on the planet.

Are there poor Americans? Sure, but most Americans are not poor and have the opportunities accessible to them not to be poor. They're literally just not taking the opportunities available them.

You say you're not an out of touch elite and then say the most wildly out of touch thing possible at the end of the post. Look up endemic poverty and learn how it works. The people at the bottom in America have NO opportunities, full stop.

Most Americans are not at the bottom of America. They're extraordinary privileged people who voted for Trump because they hold xenophobic and misogynistic sentiments. There's no excuses for that. These people chose a crypto-fascist demagogue out of privilege and disgust for the poor and people of different ethnic groups.

Acknowledging that doesn't make me out of touch or an elitist. I don't need to be poor to be sickened by the words and actions of these people. That's nothing to aspire to.

[Borderlands of Rojava]

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

[Sundiata]

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

[Valrifell]

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

I don't think the guy who doesn't believe in endemic poverty gets a place at this conversation.

[Punished UMN]

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

The bourgeoisie are in league with Satan and have attempted, for hundreds of years, to overthrow any sense of Christian morality because this constrains their faustian desire for more and yet still more economic resources for themselves, which they hoard like dragons.

[Washington Resistance Army]

You say you're not an out of touch elite and then say the most wildly out of touch thing possible at the end of the post. Look up endemic poverty and learn how it works. The people at the bottom in America have NO opportunities, full stop.

Most Americans are not at the bottom of America. They're extraordinary privileged people who voted for Trump because they hold xenophobic and misogynistic sentiments. There's no excuses for that. These people chose a crypto-fascist demagogue out of privilege and disgust for the poor and people of different ethnic groups.

Acknowledging that doesn't make me out of touch or an elitist.

My guy do you know how many Americans are in poverty lol, and how many more live paycheck to paycheck? This system does not work for anyone except the already rich.

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

That is an objectively true statement though. Rich people and big businesses overwhelmingly contribute to global warming and are thus factually ruining the world.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Unlike the fight against capitalism, I take little pleasure in fighting the trumpsters. I like seeing people with dumb ideas get put in their place but I would condemn any and all violence or desire for violence, even if non lethal, against people who supported the former president, because to me they're not the main foe ruining the world.

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

If the neoliberals had continued their unopposed free reign the Earth would be a global swamp several centuries early.

[Sundiata]

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

I don't think the guy who doesn't believe in endemic poverty gets a place at this conversation.

I've heard it all before.

[Proctopeo]

You'd be surprised what can be accomplished when you cease to approach people with innate hostility to them and their beliefs. That is the common factor in all failures.

There's another thing; the underlying issues that motivated people to vote for (and believe in) Trump are still present, if not worse than they were in 2016.

I'm not approaching these people with hostility, just resignation. I'm sorry if you've read that hostility into my posts but that wasn't really my intention, of course some of their beliefs should be met with hostility but the people themselves are (mostly) okay. Of course I'm absolutely not convinced I would be met with the same attitude.

You might not, but most people who """"explain"""" why their ideology is mostly false do so with hostile intentions.

Don't get me wrong, either, I support fixing the issues (except the race-related, "culture war" ones) that made opened these people up to manipulative rhetoric and conspiracy theories that defines Trump.

The "culture war" issues are secondary, I feel, to the actual issues. Chief among those issues is how "the elites" (a fancy way of referring to career politicians and the like) are completely alienated from the wants and needs of the common folk - Biden telling coal miners that they should just "learn to code" is an example of this.
It's not that Trump is much better in this regard, but he's, at the very least, better at pretending he cares.

Anyway, as an aside, Trump is no more fascist than FDR was.

[Valrifell]

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

The bourgeoisie are in league with Satan and have attempted, for hundreds of years, to overthrow any sense of Christian morality because this constrains their faustian desire for more and yet still more economic resources for themselves, which they hoard like dragons.

Can't tell if shitpost or genuine truth.

[The Alma Mater]

Because let me guess, the real foe is the bourgeoisie? Come on, give me a break.

The bourgeoisie are in league with Satan and have attempted, for hundreds of years, to overthrow any sense of Christian morality because this constrains their faustian desire for more and yet still more economic resources for themselves, which they hoard like dragons.

You just described most churches.

[Punished UMN]

The bourgeoisie are in league with Satan and have attempted, for hundreds of years, to overthrow any sense of Christian morality because this constrains their faustian desire for more and yet still more economic resources for themselves, which they hoard like dragons.

Can't tell if shitpost or genuine truth.

I'll let the good people make their own mind up on that.

[Untecna]

They're not evil people, but they have been totally conned. You can't facts and logic your way out of that kind of mindset, that's just not how conspiracy theorizing works, we can talk about how they fell into that whole and why but getting them out is (at the very least) extremely non-trivial.

The deepest Trump supporters are akin to flat-earthers, there's literally an insurmountable body of evidence against their position and yet they continue to hold it. You'd have to try and get them before they become Trump supporters at all, like when they just loosely flirt with the idea.

Of course you can't use facts and logic alone. What I'm saying is Trumpism and ideas like it (ISIS, tankies etc) can't flourish unless the system is failing. Trumpism only further entrenched me as a socialist because I realized if we don't solve the problem of our failing system, somebody awful will. That's why fascism and communism both pop up in times of trouble. Both are spawned by many of the same concerns but the proposed solution is so much different.

Fascism and communism only work when the public is too politically apathetic to see the truth behind the ideologies.

[Sundiata]

[
The "culture war" issues are secondary, I feel, to the actual issues. Chief among those issues is how "the elites" (a fancy way of referring to career politicians and the like) are completely alienated from the wants and needs of the common folk - Biden telling coal miners that they should just "learn to code" is an example of this.
It's not that Trump is much better in this regard, but he's, at the very least, better at pretending he cares.

Anyway, as an aside, Trump is no more fascist than FDR was.

Come on. Trump told a white supremacist group to stand down and stand ready. Come on. The Elites and their like? That's not a fair way of viewing things. Everyone has their place in this world, from a janitor to the King of Spain.

It's ridiculous to condemn people for having certain blessings. Joe Biden telling people that they need to learn new skills is preparing people for the challenges of this century. There's lucrative jobs there. Common people have dignity.

[Punished UMN]

[
The "culture war" issues are secondary, I feel, to the actual issues. Chief among those issues is how "the elites" (a fancy way of referring to career politicians and the like) are completely alienated from the wants and needs of the common folk - Biden telling coal miners that they should just "learn to code" is an example of this.
It's not that Trump is much better in this regard, but he's, at the very least, better at pretending he cares.

Anyway, as an aside, Trump is no more fascist than FDR was.

Come on. Trump told a white supremacist group to stand down and stand ready. Come on. The Elites and their like? That's not a fair way of viewing things. Everyone has their place in this world, from a janitor to the King of Spain.

It's ridiculous to condemn people for having certain blessings. Joe Biden telling people that they need to learn new skills is preparing people for the challenges of this century. There's lucrative jobs there. Common people have dignity.

You're making a cognitive mistake in the assumption that the elite we have today is comparable to traditional elites. The bourgeoisie, unlike the nobility, has no historical legitimacy, and so it is only able to justify its power by a lack of ethics to constrain it. Yeah, the world is a nicer place to live than in prior ages, but the actual ethos of those in power is significantly worse.

[Greater Miami Shores]

Ok on these two issues, my opinion is my opinion. Your opinion is your opinion. I accept your opinion but I disagree with your opinion.

I typed this whole post myself. My English is very good. They can read it and understand it. My grammar structure is not so good.

I am not a Quanon of any kind, I don't follow it and I think the word Quanon sounds ugly, yuck as I posted.

Thank you for your post.

Yet you refuse to accept reality that Trump lost a free and fair election. This is not an opinion this is fact. Even Trump appointed judges agree as did the overwhelming majority of the Senate.

A political party should not show complete loyalty to one person and do everything they want. That is a dictatorship and cult. Answer me this question, If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

To all persons on NS - Detailed Post by GMS, lol on my self.

If 7 Democrats would have voted to acquit Republican President Trump, their political base would be angry and challenge them in the primaries.

Yet you seem to refuse to accept we can strongly disagree with each other, without me being wrong and you being right. We are both entitled to our opinions, I respect your opinion but I strongly disagree with your opinion.

If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

If that happens, I would say it is wrong, and I will not support it. No it would not be traitorous. I am not a Fascist, I am not a Nazi. I am not a communist like it was practiced in the Soviet Union and other communist nations of the time when it happened in the Soviet Union and those other communist nations.

Like it was practiced in my native nation of Cuba under the eternal revolutionary dictatorship of Fidel and Raúl Castro Ruz, whose successors call themselves the continuity of the revolution, this statement says it all and proves it all.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_ ... Production

[Washington Resistance Army]

Come on. Trump told a white supremacist group to stand down and stand ready. Come on. The Elites and their like? That's not a fair way of viewing things. Everyone has their place in this world, from a janitor to the King of Spain.

It's ridiculous to condemn people for having certain blessings. Joe Biden telling people that they need to learn new skills is preparing people for the challenges of this century. There's lucrative jobs there. Common people have dignity.

You're making a cognitive mistake in the assumption that the elite we have today is comparable to traditional elites. The bourgeoisie, unlike the nobility, has no historical legitimacy, and so it is only able to justify its power by a lack of ethics to constrain it. Yeah, the world is a nicer place to live than in prior ages, but the actual ethos of those in power is significantly worse.

Return to antiquity, I volunteer to be Magister Militum per Pacifica.

[San Lumen]

Yet you refuse to accept reality that Trump lost a free and fair election. This is not an opinion this is fact. Even Trump appointed judges agree as did the overwhelming majority of the Senate.

A political party should not show complete loyalty to one person and do everything they want. That is a dictatorship and cult. Answer me this question, If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

If 7 Democrats would have voted to acquit Republican President Trump, their political base would be angry and challenge them in the primaries.

Yet you seem to refuse to accept we can strongly disagree with each other, without me being wrong and you being right. We are both entitled to our opinions, I respect.

If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

If that happens, I would say it is wrong, and I will not support it. No it would not be traitorous. I am not a Fascist, I am not a Nazi. I am not a communist like it was practiced in the Soviet Union and other communist nations of the time when it happened in the Soviet Union and those other communist nations.

Like it was practiced in my native nation of Cuba under the eternal revolutionary dictatorship of Fidel and Raúl Castro Ruz, whose successors call themselves the continuity of the revolution, this statement says it and proves it all.

It is a fact Trump lost a free and fair election and even his own judges agreed. Same goes for the Georgia runoffs. You need to let this go and accept you lost a free and fair election but you never will.

You therefore agree that a party should not show complete and utterly loyalty to one person and it is ok to criticize their actions or polices if one doesn’t agree and should be punished for wrongdoing?

[Proctopeo]

If 7 Democrats would have voted to acquit Republican President Trump, their political base would be angry and challenge them in the primaries.

Yet you seem to refuse to accept we can strongly disagree with each other, without me being wrong and you being right. We are both entitled to our opinions, I respect.

If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

If that happens, I would say it is wrong, and I will not support it. No it would not be traitorous. I am not a Fascist, I am not a Nazi. I am not a communist like it was practiced in the Soviet Union and other communist nations of the time when it happened in the Soviet Union and those other communist nations.

Like it was practiced in my native nation of Cuba under the eternal revolutionary dictatorship of Fidel and Raúl Castro Ruz, whose successors call themselves the continuity of the revolution, this statement says it and proves it all.

It is a fact Trump lost a free and fair election and even his own judges agreed. Same goes for the Georgia runoffs. You need to let this go and accept you lost a free and fair election but you never will.

You therefore agree that a party should not show complete and utterly loyalty to one person and it is ok to criticize their actions or polices if one doesn’t agree and should be punished for wrongdoing?

Wait, weren't you upset that you lost a free and fair election in 2016, so much so that you demanded a constitutional crisis over it? I'm not sure if you're the best one to talk here...

[San Lumen]

It is a fact Trump lost a free and fair election and even his own judges agreed. Same goes for the Georgia runoffs. You need to let this go and accept you lost a free and fair election but you never will.

You therefore agree that a party should not show complete and utterly loyalty to one person and it is ok to criticize their actions or polices if one doesn’t agree and should be punished for wrongdoing?

Wait, weren't you upset that you lost a free and fair election in 2016, so much so that you demanded a constitutional crisis over it? I'm not sure if you're the best one to talk here...

I admit that my statement was wrong and i should not have advocated for such a thing.

[Greater Miami Shores]

If 7 Democrats would have voted to acquit Republican President Trump, their political base would be angry and challenge them in the primaries.

Yet you seem to refuse to accept we can strongly disagree with each other, without me being wrong and you being right. We are both entitled to our opinions, I respect.

If the base and a future GOP president wanted all Muslims, African Americans, and LGBT placed in interment camps would it be traitorous to you if a majority of the Republicans in congress said no we will not go along with that?

If that happens, I would say it is wrong, and I will not support it. No it would not be traitorous. I am not a Fascist, I am not a Nazi. I am not a communist like it was practiced in the Soviet Union and other communist nations of the time when it happened in the Soviet Union and those other communist nations.

Like it was practiced in my native nation of Cuba under the eternal revolutionary dictatorship of Fidel and Raúl Castro Ruz, whose successors call themselves the continuity of the revolution, this statement says it and proves it all.

It is a fact Trump lost a free and fair election and even his own judges agreed. Same goes for the Georgia runoffs. You need to let this go and accept you lost a free and fair election but you never will.

You therefore agree that a party should not show complete and utterly loyalty to one person and it is ok to criticize their actions or polices if one doesn’t agree and should be punished for wrongdoing?

Here we go again, you are taking my post out of context.

Yet you seem to refuse to accept we can strongly disagree with each other, without me being wrong and you being right. We are both entitled to our opinions, I respect your different opinion, please respect our different opinion. You can still strongly disagree with us, as you do.

This includes the millions of American Citizens who strongly disagree with you guys.

[Proctopeo]

Wait, weren't you upset that you lost a free and fair election in 2016, so much so that you demanded a constitutional crisis over it? I'm not sure if you're the best one to talk here...

I admit that my statement was wrong and i should not have advocated for such a thing.

That's good to hear.

[Rostavykhan]

The bourgeoisie are in league with Satan and have attempted, for hundreds of years, to overthrow any sense of Christian morality because this constrains their faustian desire for more and yet still more economic resources for themselves, which they hoard like dragons.

Can't tell if shitpost or genuine truth.

The Liberal Bourgeoisie and their Capitalist system are inherently heretical in their pursuit of ever more profit and growth, at the expense of The People, Nation, and Environment.

I'm not even particularly religious, but I still support such an argument. Greed is sinful.

[Ifreann]

It's weird that a point about how it isn't strictly "economic anxiety" that lead to people supporting Trump has lead to this argument about whether people are really poor or not.

Because most Americans have no legitimate reason to support a demagogue like that. They voted for Trump because he told them that Mexicans are rapists. They voted for Trump because he said that he grabs women by their genitals. If they were purely interested in material concerns they would've probably voted for Bernie Sanders. The way that some Americans regard their fellow human beings is utterly deplorable. It's not right to blame it on them being poor, give me a break.

So why are you talking about them having it better than kids down the cobalt mines in Africa? That has nothing to do with it.