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French government denounces American Woke Left

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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:42 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
And this step over the line is... not doing blackface?



Ah yes, thinking blackface is maybe not something we should do is definitely equivalent to Nazism.


The step over the line would be the self-flagellating nonsense of pandering to people who think blackface in a non-derogatory fashion in a traditional format is racism.

+

It doesn't have to be equivalent to Nazism and I think you're deliberately avoiding the point.

I'm pointing out to you that if you keep ripping up deals that say you wont do things when people point out they're worried "If we give you X, you're going to take Y later on", then eventually, people have had enough and will react to the totality of your demands, not merely the latest one, but also the ones they're worried you're going to do in future, and you denying "I'm not going to do that in future" no longer means anything to them.

The woke left has almost no legitimacy left outside of its ardent adherents because of how they have behaved over the past few decades.

What are you even talking about? What deals? A loose conglomeration of people is not a foreign chancellery.
Last edited by Punished UMN on Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:42 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:The step over the line would be the self-flagellating nonsense of pandering to people who think blackface in a non-derogatory fashion in a traditional format is racism.


'Traditional' blackface, where characters who wear them are famously villains or the butts of jokes isn't derogatory towards POC?

Ostroeuropa wrote:I'm pointing out to you that if you keep ripping up deals that say you wont do things when people point out they're worried "If we give you X, you're going to take Y later on", then eventually, people have had enough and will react to the totality of your demands, not merely the latest one, but also the ones they're worried you're going to do in future, and you denying "I'm not going to do that in future" no longer means anything to them.


People have been pointing out that blackface is racist for well over a hundred years now. This isn't some new thing.


Stereotypical blackface is very racist. If a white person dresses as a black person and tries to convincingly look black, like Robert Downey Junior in Tropic Thunder, I dont see it as racist. I once went as Kurt Cobaine for Halloween. Do you think that was racist of me as a brown man to dress as a white grunge rocker?
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Borderlands of Rojava
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:43 pm

Albrenia wrote:Is it bad that I don't care? I doubt the 'woke' people do either. Or the anti-woke people for that matter, beyond enjoying someone agreeing with them.


Yeah tbh I'm focused on other stuff like climate change killing us all or corporate greed. Alot of the outrage in both the woke crowd and anti woke crowd just doesn't get me going anymore.
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"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:46 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Stereotypical blackface is very racist. If a white person dresses as a black person and tries to convincingly look black, like Robert Downey Junior in Tropic Thunder, I dont see it as racist.


So your guiding line for how racist blackface is is how good your makeup artist is?

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I once went as Kurt Cobaine for Halloween. Do you think that was racist of me as a brown man to dress as a white grunge rocker?


I would encourage you to think about why it is that blackface is racist before I answer.

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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:50 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
'Traditional' blackface, where characters who wear them are famously villains or the butts of jokes isn't derogatory towards POC?



People have been pointing out that blackface is racist for well over a hundred years now. This isn't some new thing.


Stereotypical blackface is very racist. If a white person dresses as a black person and tries to convincingly look black, like Robert Downey Junior in Tropic Thunder, I dont see it as racist. I once went as Kurt Cobaine for Halloween. Do you think that was racist of me as a brown man to dress as a white grunge rocker?

Robert Downey Jr's. Character in that movie was intended as a comedic commentary on the history of blackface and whitewashing in Hollywood casting, while also making fun of method actors like Daniel Day-Lewis.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:53 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Is it bad that I don't care? I doubt the 'woke' people do either. Or the anti-woke people for that matter, beyond enjoying someone agreeing with them.


Yeah tbh I'm focused on other stuff like climate change killing us all or corporate greed. Alot of the outrage in both the woke crowd and anti woke crowd just doesn't get me going anymore.


Yeah. It's not like this is going to stop the woke people from making more shitty movies and games and delivering their message with all the elegance of a bull in a china shop. Nor will it stop the anti-sjw crowd from thinking everything is a huge conspiracy by evil wimmen to enslave men in the BDSM mines of Estros.

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Echo Chamber Thought Police
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Postby Echo Chamber Thought Police » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:54 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Albrenia wrote:Is it bad that I don't care? I doubt the 'woke' people do either. Or the anti-woke people for that matter, beyond enjoying someone agreeing with them.


Yeah tbh I'm focused on other stuff like climate change killing us all or corporate greed. Alot of the outrage in both the woke crowd and anti woke crowd just doesn't get me going anymore.

most people stopped caring about this kind of bs in like 2017
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:57 pm

Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yeah tbh I'm focused on other stuff like climate change killing us all or corporate greed. Alot of the outrage in both the woke crowd and anti woke crowd just doesn't get me going anymore.

most people stopped caring about this kind of bs in like 2017


The clock stopped for Ostro on the day Justice League came out.

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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:57 pm

Sometimes the French are right. Things like the renaming of schools in SF, are a cancer on this nation.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:57 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:most people stopped caring about this kind of bs in like 2017


The clock stopped for Ostro on the day Justice League came out.

Just wait until he sees the Snyder cut!
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:58 pm

Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Yeah tbh I'm focused on other stuff like climate change killing us all or corporate greed. Alot of the outrage in both the woke crowd and anti woke crowd just doesn't get me going anymore.

most people stopped caring about this kind of bs in like 2017


Did they, or is this most people in your circle?

If multiple governments are viewing this as a valid electoral strategy, i'd suggest to you that most people *do care*.
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Postby Echo Chamber Thought Police » Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:58 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:Sometimes the French are right. Things like the renaming of schools in SF, are a cancer on this nation.

i dont agree with them but i dont really care either tbh
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Echo Chamber Thought Police
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Postby Echo Chamber Thought Police » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:02 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:
Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:most people stopped caring about this kind of bs in like 2017


Did they, or is this most people in your circle?

If multiple governments are viewing this as a valid electoral strategy, i'd suggest to you that most people *do care*.

:roll:

This not an 'electoral strategy'

Just because its happening near an election does not mean its a cornerstone of their electoral strategy.
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Postby Albrenia » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:03 pm

Ostroeuropa wrote:If multiple governments are viewing this as a valid electoral strategy, i'd suggest to you that most people *do care*.


It's easy to rile up stupid people to be angry about the dumb shit the woke crowd do, and helpful for getting them to ignore the real problems in any given society.

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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:03 pm

Punished UMN wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
The clock stopped for Ostro on the day Justice League came out.

Just wait until he sees the Snyder cut!


He already has. And has not. In that fateful hour on November 17 2017, at 5:45 PM in that movie theatre he became gamergate Dr. Manhattan, forever poised on the edge of time, plunging towards a seemingly inevitable present and future that will never arrive.
Last edited by Nilokeras on Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ostroeuropa » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:04 pm

Echo Chamber Thought Police wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
Did they, or is this most people in your circle?

If multiple governments are viewing this as a valid electoral strategy, i'd suggest to you that most people *do care*.

:roll:

This not an 'electoral strategy'

Just because its happening near an election does not mean its a cornerstone of their electoral strategy.


The Tories have it as a fairly explicit election strategy as well as a number of other right wing governments across Europe. France adopting this stance is a bit too coincidental to conclude its not the same, but in addition to that, is irrelevant to it being an election strategy of multiple national governments at this point.

Furthermore, the notion that it's a "distraction from more important issues" while also not being an election strategy is a curious one for people to believe in.

"It's distracting people from the disaster of right wing economics, but also nobody cares about it.".

Albrenia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:If multiple governments are viewing this as a valid electoral strategy, i'd suggest to you that most people *do care*.


It's easy to rile up stupid people to be angry about the dumb shit the woke crowd do, and helpful for getting them to ignore the real problems in any given society.


Them thinking something is a problem does not equate to ignoring other problems.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Punished UMN
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Postby Punished UMN » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:08 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Just wait until he sees the Snyder cut!


He already has. And has not. In that fateful hour on November 17 2017, at 5:45 PM in that movie theatre he became gamergate Dr. Manhattan, forever poised on the edge of time, plunging towards a seemingly inevitable present and future that will never arrive.

At least he doesn't know about Prime Minister Boris Johnson.
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Postby Proctopeo » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:16 pm

Good for them.

Nilokeras wrote:
Punished UMN wrote:Just wait until he sees the Snyder cut!


He already has. And has not. In that fateful hour on November 17 2017, at 5:45 PM in that movie theatre he became gamergate Dr. Manhattan, forever poised on the edge of time, plunging towards a seemingly inevitable present and future that will never arrive.

And it seems like you're stuck in 2014.
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Postby The Two Jerseys » Thu Feb 11, 2021 2:28 pm

It's pretty bad when Europeans say that you're too woke...
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 3:13 pm

Proctopeo wrote:Good for them.

Nilokeras wrote:
He already has. And has not. In that fateful hour on November 17 2017, at 5:45 PM in that movie theatre he became gamergate Dr. Manhattan, forever poised on the edge of time, plunging towards a seemingly inevitable present and future that will never arrive.

And it seems like you're stuck in 2014.


I wish. Then this forum might actually still be good.

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Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:00 pm

Arisyan wrote:*sighs*. Dear god. What, is even your problem with the "woke left", which isn't even really true because wokeists are an entire political spectrum on their own. But I digress. There are far, far more problems going on in the world then SJWs complaining about man spreading.


True but it's much easier to blame the US and the SJW or all of your problems instead of having to admit that an inconvenient solution is needed. At this point blaming the US for random things is like a sport, just look at NS forums.

In reality, the so-called SJWs have almost no impact anywhere. There are very few of them and they mostly exist in the minds of right-wing people who see them as a modern boogeyman to be hated on.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Thu Feb 11, 2021 4:54 pm

-Ocelot- wrote:
Arisyan wrote:*sighs*. Dear god. What, is even your problem with the "woke left", which isn't even really true because wokeists are an entire political spectrum on their own. But I digress. There are far, far more problems going on in the world then SJWs complaining about man spreading.


True but it's much easier to blame the US and the SJW or all of your problems instead of having to admit that an inconvenient solution is needed. At this point blaming the US for random things is like a sport, just look at NS forums.

In reality, the so-called SJWs have almost no impact anywhere. There are very few of them and they mostly exist in the minds of right-wing people who see them as a modern boogeyman to be hated on.

Tell that to the people of SF where they want to strip the names of Lincoln and Washington off of the schools. Or nyc where the school system consider merit a racist concept.
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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:44 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:It's pretty bad when Europeans say that you're too woke...

Well France has never really been apart of the “woke” crowd. Considering that they literally banned headscarves and have a history of forced assimilation.

Hell the President of France has taken a more right wing stance to immigration than Trump took. France and a lot of other European states aren’t the same as the UK and Germany
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Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:49 pm

Nilokeras wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:Stereotypical blackface is very racist. If a white person dresses as a black person and tries to convincingly look black, like Robert Downey Junior in Tropic Thunder, I dont see it as racist.


So your guiding line for how racist blackface is is how good your makeup artist is?

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:I once went as Kurt Cobaine for Halloween. Do you think that was racist of me as a brown man to dress as a white grunge rocker?


I would encourage you to think about why it is that blackface is racist before I answer.


No its about whether your makeup portrays a stereotype. If you dress as a black person without pushing stereotypes about blacks, i don't see how it's racist. Blackface in the old days was racist because it portrayed black people as a stereotype. They were portrayed as literally black colored, big lipped, lazy and stupid. If a woman for Halloween dresses as the queen of meroe and she uses foundation to make her skin darker and dyes her hair black and braids it, then adorns herself with jewels, is it racist? I don't think so, because she is not mocking black people.
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Nilokeras
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Postby Nilokeras » Thu Feb 11, 2021 6:03 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Nilokeras wrote:
So your guiding line for how racist blackface is is how good your makeup artist is?



I would encourage you to think about why it is that blackface is racist before I answer.


No its about whether your makeup portrays a stereotype. If you dress as a black person without pushing stereotypes about blacks, i don't see how it's racist. Blackface in the old days was racist because it portrayed black people as a stereotype. They were portrayed as literally black colored, big lipped, lazy and stupid. If a woman for Halloween dresses as the queen of meroe and she uses foundation to make her skin darker and dyes her hair black and braids it, then adorns herself with jewels, is it racist? I don't think so, because she is not mocking black people.


Blackface and its direct ties to minstrelsy is only part of the formula. It's also directly tied to the discrimination black people faced within entertainment and the arts - blackface persisted into the 20th century long after minstrel shows fell to the wayside in large part because of white actors playing the roles of black people (or even Asians or First Nations people) often in serious roles because of serious discrimination and the perception that POC could not be cast in major roles. Again, the fact that this opera director's pledge to stop using blackface was also tied directly to a pledge to diversify their casts and crew should tell you a lot.

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