NATION

PASSWORD

French government denounces American Woke Left

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:37 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:
We operate in different moral universes. There is nothing to be gained.


Sadly I agree. Which moral universe do you operate in and which do you think I operate in? Maybe to you I really represent the darkness of things such as Nazism despite not being a Nazi since you and I both know very well that stuff such as what I wrote becoming popular will indeed cause that.

I’m way too honest and unwilling to self-censor that I talk about a lot of stuff that should be kept out of hands of sociopaths. It’s lucky that I’m not a known sociologist or popular blogger. I do promise never to start a blog or Twitter account to talk about the stuff though for it might actually lead to human deaths when read by the wrong people.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:39 pm

Kowani wrote:
Fedel wrote:
Depends on what argument you believe is being made when someone uses the term. It's certainly a term many use negatively to describe negative things but it has also been used to describe positive things in a negative way and all the other combination of descriptions that pop into your mind. This is the problem with these sorts of discussions.

the first tool for productive discussion: defining what one means when one uses certain words
confucius was right


While I know this comment is mostly meant to be humorous, when you're entering discussions like these where passions run high and the goal is usually not honest engagement on the part of many people participating in them, no truer words can be spoken.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Dangine
Envoy
 
Posts: 332
Founded: Nov 02, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Dangine » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:05 pm

I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.
Dangine is a Socialist nation that has a lot of political freedom and civil rights. This nation is mainly based on my political views, but extremer. My nation is Socialist so I could get rid of the high unemployment.
Thank you Brusseldorf for redesigning my official flag. They did so without me asking.
Organized factbook of all my factbooks
Member of LITA

User avatar
Borderlands of Rojava
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12123
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:13 pm

Dangine wrote:I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.


My best definition of woke is "making your race/sexual orientation/gender the most important part of what makes you you." That's the best I can come up with.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:15 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Dangine wrote:I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.


My best definition of woke is "making your race/sexual orientation/gender the most important part of what makes you you." That's the best I can come up with.


Uh it’s not true. Wokism is a weird alliance of very different peoples such as white social liberals and far-rightists in many other ethnic groups.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Gravlen
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14659
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:19 pm

Dangine wrote:I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.

Though that's a meaningless phrase as well.

Can we call the woke "Shadowpeople" instead? It sounds cooler.
And Cancel Culture can be called "Crystal Fugue State".
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:20 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Dangine wrote:I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.

Though that's a meaningless phrase as well.

Can we call the woke "Shadowpeople" instead? It sounds cooler.
And Cancel Culture can be called "Crystal Fugue State".


People who support wokeism and cancel culture don't deserve cool terms. Authoritarians only deserve denigration.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Gravlen
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14659
Founded: Jul 01, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:24 pm

Fedel wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Though that's a meaningless phrase as well.

Can we call the woke "Shadowpeople" instead? It sounds cooler.
And Cancel Culture can be called "Crystal Fugue State".


People who support wokeism and cancel culture don't deserve cool terms. Authoritarians only deserve denigration.

People who support Shadowism and Crystal Fugue State don't deserve cool terms. Authoritarians only deserve denigration.

Yep. Pretty much the same meaning as your post :)
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Fedel wrote:
People who support wokeism and cancel culture don't deserve cool terms. Authoritarians only deserve denigration.

People who support Shadowism and Crystal Fugue State don't deserve cool terms. Authoritarians only deserve denigration.

Yep. Pretty much the same meaning as your post :)


Yes, except those terms are indeed cool. With some social rewiring, we could change that, but I'd rather we'd go with the terms most already consider lame.

They can even waste their time fruitlessly trying to "take back" those terms thus distracting them from concentrating power within their tribe. :P
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Borderlands of Rojava
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12123
Founded: Jul 27, 2020
Democratic Socialists

Postby Borderlands of Rojava » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:05 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
My best definition of woke is "making your race/sexual orientation/gender the most important part of what makes you you." That's the best I can come up with.


Uh it’s not true. Wokism is a weird alliance of very different peoples such as white social liberals and far-rightists in many other ethnic groups.


No wokism is when you have to throw it in everyone's face that you're black, as if that wasn't already obvious.
Leftist, commie and Antifa Guy. Democratic Confederalist, Anti-racist

"The devil is out there. Hiding behind every corner and in every nook and cranny. In all of the dives, all over the city. Before you lays an entire world of enemies, and at day's end when the chips are down, we're a society of strangers. You cant walk by someone on the street anymore without crossing the road to get away from their stare. Welcome to the Twilight Zone. The land of plague and shadow. Nothing innocent survives this world. If it can't corrupt you, it'll kill you."

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14218
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:05 pm

United Chinese Communes wrote:Because Le Pen has overtaken him in the opinion polls, so he seeks to take away her votes.

And why has Le Pen overtaken him in opinion polls? Is it perhaps that she's addressing a concrete concern that many voters have about French policy and the ongoing discourse? The fact that people are distancing themselves from a particular paradigm in order to cultivate support should give you some indication of how people perceive that paradigm, especially if this move happens to work at all. Gotta say if my first exposure to feminism was the conversation I had the other day instead of being a little girl and wanting to be a doctor, I think I'd understand way better where Ostro is coming from.
Last edited by Fahran on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The conservative, nationalistic, gun-toting Jewish Southern belle that your momma warned you about.

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14218
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:07 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:No wokism is when you have to throw it in everyone's face that you're black, as if that wasn't already obvious.

For Shaun King it wasn't obvious though. :p

My mans be looking paler than me in most pictures.
Last edited by Fahran on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The conservative, nationalistic, gun-toting Jewish Southern belle that your momma warned you about.

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14218
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:09 pm

Dangine wrote:I find the term woke dumb, it sounds more like a religious thing. I don't understand what makes “woke” so different from basic leftist and even modern-day thought, it's so generic. It's hard to tell what ideas the french government is denouncing. If it was just canceled culture they should have just denounced cancel culture.

Well, ideology does approximate theology...
The conservative, nationalistic, gun-toting Jewish Southern belle that your momma warned you about.

User avatar
Fahran
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14218
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:10 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:My best definition of woke is "making your race/sexual orientation/gender the most important part of what makes you you." That's the best I can come up with.

Being woke is supposed to be about having some measure of cognizance about how social institutions, conventions, and hierarchies interact to shape our identities, behaviors, attitudes, and paradigms, but a lot of folks who use the term to describe themselves don't really use anything approaching rigor in their analyses of what precisely this means.
The conservative, nationalistic, gun-toting Jewish Southern belle that your momma warned you about.

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:14 pm

Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Uh it’s not true. Wokism is a weird alliance of very different peoples such as white social liberals and far-rightists in many other ethnic groups.


No wokism is when you have to throw it in everyone's face that you're black, as if that wasn't already obvious.


I disagree. I can actually kind of understand the black American POV now. Unlike you and me they are really desperate and legitimately so. You are Caucasoid and no matter whether people say you are white now you will be 50 years later and you actually are in many societies and even a large part of America. I can bash Sinostatism etc all the way I want but that’s precisely because NE Asian achievements do exist and that Japan has earned the respect which even extends to me. Even fucking China did manage to get out of the European colonial area even better than Turks and Iranians, let alone Indians.

On the other hand if you really analyze black history what will you get? They have the best genetic diversity and good resistance to tropical diseases which are very good. However in terms of interactions with the rest of the world they are usually historically low status. While Huns, Mongols and other East Asian and past East Asian invaders stroke fear into the hearts of East Europeans (which evened East Aryan invasion of some parts of China and Mongolia out) and Middle Easterners it is Arabs and later West Europeans who stroke fear into Africans. Europeans and Middle Easterners invaded and enslaved each other so it evened out. Yet when Sub-Saharan Africa is involved there is a huge inequality. After all Sub-Saharan Africans did not manage to invade Baghdad or Rome and carry away their inhabitants as slaves.

This is why they began to invent bizarre things such as “we were Egyptians.” This might fly 100 years ago but not right now in the digital age where who ancient Egyptians were is actually known due to advances in archaeology and research is disseminated online for free. We could definitely write a Sub-Saharan African history book that is based on facts and looks good (e.g. Igbo metallurgy, Kingdom of Benin, Ethiopia etc) but it will take some work.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Space Nudists
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 4
Founded: Jul 26, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Space Nudists » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:16 pm

Based.

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:17 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
No wokism is when you have to throw it in everyone's face that you're black, as if that wasn't already obvious.


I disagree. I can actually kind of understand the black American POV now. Unlike you and me they are really desperate and legitimately so. You are Caucasoid and no matter whether people say you are white now you will be 50 years later and you actually are in many societies and even a large part of America. I can bash Sinostatism etc all the way I want but that’s precisely because NE Asian achievements do exist and that Japan has earned the respect which even extends to me. Even fucking China did manage to get out of the European colonial area even better than Turks and Iranians, let alone Indians.

On the other hand if you really analyze black history what will you get? They have the best genetic diversity and good resistance to tropical diseases which are very good. However in terms of interactions with the rest of the world they are usually historically low status. While Huns, Mongols and other East Asian and past East Asian invaders stroke fear into the hearts of East Europeans (which evened East Aryan invasion of some parts of China and Mongolia out) and Middle Easterners it is Arabs and later West Europeans who stroke fear into Africans. Europeans and Middle Easterners invaded and enslaved each other so it evened out. Yet when Sub-Saharan Africa is involved there is a huge inequality. After all Sub-Saharan Africans did not manage to invade Baghdad or Rome and carry away their inhabitants as slaves.


This is actually a valid take I agree with, I still don't believe it justifies asserting one's race simply to create barriers. Only if it helps remove them ( my experience as a black person living in this part of the country under these conditions gives me a deeper understanding on "specific issue" ).

I think the problem is that many people ( non-blacks as well ) consciously confuse the two in order to accumulate power and influence by using an immensely powerful past to stroke passions and channel energy behind specific causes which are often intentionally not what they purport to be about.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:25 pm

Fedel wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
I disagree. I can actually kind of understand the black American POV now. Unlike you and me they are really desperate and legitimately so. You are Caucasoid and no matter whether people say you are white now you will be 50 years later and you actually are in many societies and even a large part of America. I can bash Sinostatism etc all the way I want but that’s precisely because NE Asian achievements do exist and that Japan has earned the respect which even extends to me. Even fucking China did manage to get out of the European colonial area even better than Turks and Iranians, let alone Indians.

On the other hand if you really analyze black history what will you get? They have the best genetic diversity and good resistance to tropical diseases which are very good. However in terms of interactions with the rest of the world they are usually historically low status. While Huns, Mongols and other East Asian and past East Asian invaders stroke fear into the hearts of East Europeans (which evened East Aryan invasion of some parts of China and Mongolia out) and Middle Easterners it is Arabs and later West Europeans who stroke fear into Africans. Europeans and Middle Easterners invaded and enslaved each other so it evened out. Yet when Sub-Saharan Africa is involved there is a huge inequality. After all Sub-Saharan Africans did not manage to invade Baghdad or Rome and carry away their inhabitants as slaves.


This is actually a valid take I agree with, I still don't believe it justifies asserting one's race simply to create barriers. Only if it helps remove them ( my experience as a black person living in this part of the country under these conditions gives me a deeper understanding on "specific issue" ).

I think the problem is that many people ( non-blacks as well ) consciously confuse the two in order to accumulate power and influence by using an immensely powerful past to stroke passions and channel energy behind specific causes which are often intentionally not what they purport to be about.


There has to be more nuanced treatment here. For example people in the Middle East should definitely be treated as whites or similar. Hence stuff such as their treatment of Sudanese and crimes against East Africans in Zanzibar should be called out since it is no different from West European slavery. On the other hand whatever conflict between people in Europe and the Middle East is just normal inter-Caucasoid conflict since the balance of power does not inherently or historically favor Europe. This is not more unbalanced than German-Slav conflicts.

Similarly we can’t really say whether people in Japan are inherently more or less privileged than people in Poland. Historically there has never been decisive racial advantage in the steppe. Most steppe empires were mixed and terrorized sedentary Caucasoids and Mongoloids alike. You can’t really argue that there was white privilege when Aryans invaded Mongolia and Gansu and that it magically reversed when Huns raided Italy. Then Mongoloid privilege magically appeared when Mongols took Kiev and then white privilege reappeared and became even stronger when Russia reached the Pacific then since Japan appeared it was magically checked at Amur River. Maybe there was really no privilege and NE Asia has always been somewhere in the league of Caucasoid nations in terms of strength. That model makes more sense.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
UniversalCommons
Senator
 
Posts: 4504
Founded: Jan 24, 2016
Left-Leaning College State

Postby UniversalCommons » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:25 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Borderlands of Rojava wrote:
That would check out more if there weren't actual confirmed neo nazis at the storming of the capitol, aka fascists.


+1


Your arguments come across as the language of the Anti Zionist Bridge a communist group inside East Germany who specifically wanted to fulfill the ethnic cleansing of Jews and other peoples. The language is very similar just before World War II. They were the opposition to the fascists which would have completed the ethnic cleansing that Hitler failed to do. Theirs was a dream of a communist regime tied in with Stalin that would have ethnically cleansed the Jews and other groups in a superstate covering the Soviet Union and Europe. The end result would have been a state that would have destroyed far more people than the nazis something akin to the mongol hordes.

It further reinforces that you want to blame people for seeking their rights. It is the language of the kind of leftism which preaches both ethnic cleansing and identity politics. The place where your beliefs are tied to your ethnicity.

It shows a lack of understanding of history. It also reminds me of the kind of language that comes from the modern Sparticist League.

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:29 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
+1


Your arguments come across as the language of the Anti Zionist Bridge a communist group inside East Germany who specifically wanted to fulfill the ethnic cleansing of Jews and other peoples. The language is very similar just before World War II. They were the opposition to the fascists which would have completed the ethnic cleansing that Hitler failed to do. Theirs was a dream of a communist regime tied in with Stalin that would have ethnically cleansed the Jews and other groups in a superstate covering the Soviet Union and Europe. The end result would have been a state that would have destroyed far more people than the nazis something akin to the mongol hordes.

It further reinforces that you want to blame people for seeking their rights. It is the language of the kind of leftism which preaches both ethnic cleansing and identity politics. The place where your beliefs are tied to your ethnicity.

It shows a lack of understanding of history. It also reminds me of the kind of language that comes from the modern Sparticist League.


Hey? It’s not me... I obviously strongly support Zionism and Jewish people.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:31 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Fedel wrote:
This is actually a valid take I agree with, I still don't believe it justifies asserting one's race simply to create barriers. Only if it helps remove them ( my experience as a black person living in this part of the country under these conditions gives me a deeper understanding on "specific issue" ).

I think the problem is that many people ( non-blacks as well ) consciously confuse the two in order to accumulate power and influence by using an immensely powerful past to stroke passions and channel energy behind specific causes which are often intentionally not what they purport to be about.


There has to be more nuanced treatment here. For example people in the Middle East should definitely be treated as whites or similar. Hence stuff such as their treatment of Sudanese and crimes against East Africans in Zanzibar should be called out since it is no different from West European slavery. On the other hand whatever conflict between people in Europe and the Middle East is just normal inter-Caucasoid conflict since the balance of power does not inherently or historically favor Europe.


I think it's probably not helpful to refer to the ruling majority in a country with a history similar to other ruling majorities as "whites" as it perpetuates divisive stereotypes of white superiority or white people being inherently oppressive as a race similar to labelling any oppressed minority or weaker power as the "blacks" or "Africans" of an area.

Fair enough on the rest of that. I think any ruling majority abusing their inherent power should be called out for it.

Edit: Just saw your edit. Let me respond to that as well.

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:Similarly we can’t really say whether people in Japan are inherently more or less privileged than people in Poland. Historically there has never been decisive racial advantage in the steppe. Most steppe empires were mixed and terrorized sedentary Caucasoids and Mongoloids alike. You can’t really argue that there was white privilege when Aryans invaded Mongolia and Gansu and that it magically reversed when Huns raided Italy. Then Mongoloid privilege magically appeared when Mongols took Kiev and then white privilege reappeared and became even stronger when Russia reached the Pacific then since Japan appeared it was magically checked at Amur River.


Of course. Inherent power is based on many different factors including; length of time a society exists under such a system, how oppressive the ruling class chooses to be, whether or not separation and division based off of racial status is codified into law, and many many more.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.

User avatar
Nekostan-e Gharbi
Minister
 
Posts: 3197
Founded: Dec 01, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Nekostan-e Gharbi » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:34 pm

Fedel wrote:
Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
There has to be more nuanced treatment here. For example people in the Middle East should definitely be treated as whites or similar. Hence stuff such as their treatment of Sudanese and crimes against East Africans in Zanzibar should be called out since it is no different from West European slavery. On the other hand whatever conflict between people in Europe and the Middle East is just normal inter-Caucasoid conflict since the balance of power does not inherently or historically favor Europe.


I think it's probably not helpful to refer to the ruling majority in a country with a history similar to other ruling majorities as "whites" as it perpetuates divisive stereotypes of white superiority or white people being inherently oppressive as a race similar to labelling any oppressed minority or weaker power as the "blacks" or "Africans" of an area.

Fair enough on the rest of that. I think any ruling majority abusing their inherent power should be called out for it.


Sure. But then they intermarry and eventually “white” will be easier to pronounce than “1/4 English, 1/2 German and 1/4 Kurd”. The first generation may reasonably describe themselves as Arab, Russian or Chechen. Eventually this will happen and we will have to use the “white” word.

Why majority though? Minority rule is historically common. In most of the world economic, political and demographic power are often not shared. For example in Grand Duchy of Posen political power belonged to Germans, economic power belonged to Jews and demographic power belonged to Poles. In Ottoman Empire non-Muslims were often richer, yet they feared Muslims.

With people such as Jews and Indians in US power is more divided. However this does not negate the absence of power among black people which is why we should focus on blackness and mistreatment associated with it, not whiteness and whether it has a lot of privileges.
Last edited by Nekostan-e Gharbi on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 7 times in total.
Welcome to the Nekostan-e Gharbi. Our ancestors were a group of genetically enhanced Israeli cats raised by two Iranian Jewish women, Rachel Davidi and Esther Moshel. We are a constitutional monarchy where a line of benevolent and powerless feline queens “guide” the citizens or more precisely are the subject of their constant gossiping.

Current Queen: Sarah IV (House of Moshel)
Current Prime Minister: Dr. Elisheva Cohen (she is fine with Elizabeth for non-Hebrew speakers) from Likud
Cats rule; dogs drool; Israel rocks; China sucks.
Abolish China and save lives.
What is Sinostatism?
Must read on China by David Goldman https://www.tabletmag.com/amp/sections/ ... ina-empire

User avatar
Cultural Posadism
Diplomat
 
Posts: 998
Founded: Oct 05, 2020
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cultural Posadism » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:38 pm

The Lone Alliance wrote:Strangely though one way that American society was improving racially and that was partly because people stopped seeing race as the ultimate decider of what a person was, or we did

When?
be gay do crime

Formerly Liriena, wrongfully cancelled for having a controversial opinion on a political party directly responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths and the suffering of millions.

User avatar
Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 36877
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:39 pm

Cultural Posadism wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:Strangely though one way that American society was improving racially and that was partly because people stopped seeing race as the ultimate decider of what a person was, or we did

When?

the same day we all got passports to fairyland
Sex is great. But have you tried data visualizations of partisan spatial segregation?
The National Debt is not debt, but merely the sum total, to the penny, of every untaxed dollar in existence since the start of the nation.
Kowáni's big list of sources, Be Kowáni for a day!
Headline of the day: Missouri State Rep. Rick Roeber (R) expelled from legislature after sexually abusing his own children, drowning puppies
“Dale limona, mujer, que no hay en la vida ná, como la pena de ser, ciego en Graná”
the white man still cries when you cut down the lynching trees

User avatar
Fedel
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1567
Founded: Mar 08, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Fedel » Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:40 pm

Nekostan-e Gharbi wrote:
Fedel wrote:
I think it's probably not helpful to refer to the ruling majority in a country with a history similar to other ruling majorities as "whites" as it perpetuates divisive stereotypes of white superiority or white people being inherently oppressive as a race similar to labelling any oppressed minority or weaker power as the "blacks" or "Africans" of an area.

Fair enough on the rest of that. I think any ruling majority abusing their inherent power should be called out for it.


Sure. But then they intermarry and eventually “white” will be easier to pronounce than “1/4 English, 1/2 German and 1/4 Kurd”. The first generation may reasonably describe themselves as Arab, Russian or Chechen. Eventually this will happen and we will have to use the “white” word.

Why majority though? Minority rule is historically common.


I don't think "white" is a term that should be used in place of "oppressors" as it's naturally going to create division between people with features that the vast majority of humankind perceives as "white" ( most of whom who are not directly responsible for oppression ) and everybody else.

That's fine. Simply the group that wields the most power.
Last edited by Fedel on Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, Danelaw Scandinavia, Galloism, Gravlen, Grinning Dragon, Ifreann, Outer Bratorke, Shrillland, Tarsonis, The Reformed American Republic, Tinhampton, Vassenor

Advertisement

Remove ads