French government denounces American Woke Left

[Nilokeras]

You'd think at some point we would collectively as a forum be able to resist the temptation to flail at a low effort attempt at chumming the waters, but alas here we are.

[South Reinkalistan]

You'd think at some point we would collectively as a forum be able to resist the temptation to flail at a low effort attempt at chumming the waters, but alas here we are.

You clearly hold the faculties of NSG in a regard much higher than is warranted.

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

You'd think at some point we would collectively as a forum be able to resist the temptation to flail at a low effort attempt at chumming the waters, but alas here we are.

is it really trolling if I'm just providing my serious stance and views lol
also
>collectively as a forum
you are talking about NSG here man don't make me laugh (albeit this entire experience already has)

[Fedel]

I disagree. We've seen a lot of laws being passed as a result of it as well as an overall breakdown in race relations and so on. Perhaps America is not as badly affected as the nations being spammed with this content by America.

What laws in the US, at the federal level, have been "woke?"

California recently tried and ( luckily ) failed to remove a part of their state constitution that forbids discrimination on the grounds of race politics. Given the rhetoric around "hate speech" these days I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt to pass speech laws here in the next decade. Political opponents of the "woke left" for lack of a better term are already being removed from the conversation on social media sites. Of course, they're private companies and it's their right to do so, but considering how much actual communication goes on on just the 3 to 4 major social media sites, it's having a significant impact in shaping the public discourse and the way people think while clearly favoring one side of the political spectrum. We're also seeing massive self censoring and discrimination on the basis of political views in academia:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-vote-for ... 1593127619

https://www.cato.org/publications/surve ... plications

https://www.realcleareducation.com/arti ... 10483.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... or/606559/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/most-u-s-c ... 1540588198

https://www.foxnews.com/us/college-stud ... acceptable

The majority of people in education, media and entertainment all adhere to such politics as well. You can't escape it whether you're trying to increase your knowledge, keep yourself informed or merely seeking entertainment. They seek to infest every area of life in order to slowly shift the culture so that when people say something like "I'm not sure if illegal immigrants should be given stimulus checks" you'll be labelled a racist when that's something you would have been laughed at by a Republican for saying just 15 to 20 years ago. But they'll accuse you of being a nazi anyways because you're not ceding ground fast enough or to the extent they want you to. And it will never be enough.

[Fedel]

*sighs*. Dear god. What, is even your problem with the "woke left", which isn't even really true because wokeists are an entire political spectrum on their own. But I digress. There are far, far more problems going on in the world then SJWs complaining about man spreading.

Their support of authoritarianism in order to "solve" problems that their divisive and hateful rhetoric tends to create.

ostro, you need to get out of 2016

"It's current year already! We've taken over the institutions which shape thought and as a result we have gained a monopoly on the youth vote who has been force fed this stuff since birth, if you do not also begin to adhere to to the cultural majority that we are forming, you shall be exiled and destroyed."

[Vassenor]

*sighs*. Dear god. What, is even your problem with the "woke left", which isn't even really true because wokeists are an entire political spectrum on their own. But I digress. There are far, far more problems going on in the world then SJWs complaining about man spreading.

Their support of authoritarianism in order to "solve" problems that their divisive and hateful rhetoric tends to create.

ostro, you need to get out of 2016

"It's Current Year!"

And what authoritarianism would that be?

[Fedel]

Their support of authoritarianism in order to "solve" problems that their divisive and hateful rhetoric tends to create.



"It's Current Year!"

And what authoritarianism would that be?

Suppressing the views of those that disagree with their political alignment for one. Working towards attempting to disarm the populace to make coercion by force in the future an easier proposition. Attempting to brainwash minorities into thinking a specific group is their enemy because that group is the most likely to oppose their efforts while simultaneously attempting to pass legislation that would allow for de facto discrimination against those groups such as providing greater financial benefit support to people on the basis of their skin color as opposed to their actual financial status. Because these minority groups lose out on their preferred status and they are being given the excuse that the system itself is rigged against them, most within these groups will allow this to occur.

[Nilokeras]

The majority of people in education, media and entertainment all adhere to such politics as well. You can't escape it whether you're trying to increase your knowledge, keep yourself informed or merely seeking entertainment. They seek to infest every area of life in order to slowly shift the culture so that when people say something like "I'm not sure if illegal immigrants should be given stimulus checks" you'll be labelled a racist when that's something you would have been laughed at by a Republican for saying just 15 to 20 years ago. But they'll accuse you of being a nazi anyways because you're not ceding ground fast enough or to the extent they want you to. And it will never be enough.

One can't help notice how close this rhetoric veers to some very old anti-Semitic tropes in its framing and choice in devices.

[Fedel]

The majority of people in education, media and entertainment all adhere to such politics as well. You can't escape it whether you're trying to increase your knowledge, keep yourself informed or merely seeking entertainment. They seek to infest every area of life in order to slowly shift the culture so that when people say something like "I'm not sure if illegal immigrants should be given stimulus checks" you'll be labelled a racist when that's something you would have been laughed at by a Republican for saying just 15 to 20 years ago. But they'll accuse you of being a nazi anyways because you're not ceding ground fast enough or to the extent they want you to. And it will never be enough.

One can't help notice how close this rhetoric veers to some very old anti-Semitic tropes in its framing and choice in devices.

"I don't like what you're saying so I will imply you are a nazi to make you afraid of speaking like this in the future."

[South Reinkalistan]

I don't like how attacking established elite groups immediately is conflated with "anti-semitism", as this implies there is something innately Jewish about entrenched elitists -- an anti-semitic claim in and of itself.

[Fedel]

I don't like how attacking established elite groups immediately is conflated with "anti-semitism", as this implies there is something innately Jewish about entrenched elitists -- an anti-semitic claim in and of itself.

They're going to respond with "it was just a comparison I found relevant and interesting." Perhaps with a smug emoji at the end because they know they can get away with it.

[Cordel One]

And what authoritarianism would that be?

Suppressing the views of those that disagree with their political alignment for one.

Right, because the Woke Left is denying people their God-given rights to call for genocide and promote conspiracies on the internet.

Slowly attempting to disarm the populace to make coercion by force an easier proposition.

It's at this point that I'm almost postitive you don't know the difference between liberalism and leftism. "Under no pretext..."

Attempting to brainwash minorities into thinking a specific group is their enemy because that group is the most likely to oppose their effort while simultaneously also attempting to pass legislation that would allow for de facto discrimination against those groups ( providing greater financial benefit to someone on the basis of their skin color as opposed to their financial status ).

Not exactly. Liberal politians will often make pointless symbolic gestures while claiming to be their allies, but the reality is they're not much better than their opposition and will push many of the same policies that systematically harm minorities. Rightism always goes after some minorities.

[Nilokeras]

One can't help notice how close this rhetoric veers to some very old anti-Semitic tropes in its framing and choice in devices.

"I don't like what you're saying. You are a nazi."

'The majority of people in education, media and entertainment all adhere to such politics as well'

'They seek to infest every area of life in order to slowly shift the culture'

Literally 'Great Replacement' tropes my dude.

I don't like how attacking established elite groups immediately is conflated with "anti-semitism", as this implies there is something innately Jewish about entrenched elitists -- an anti-semitic claim in and of itself.

There are plenty of ways to criticize elite retrenchment and class interests without dipping into that particular well.

[South Reinkalistan]

There are plenty of ways to criticize elite retrenchment and class interests without dipping into that particular well.

Might I query as to where the well was dipped into? I think Fedel's arguments are nonsense and his rhetoric is nonsensical tripe, but at the same time I don't see him exactly making any indictments against Jews.

Could you expound upon your reasoning?

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Can we please stop using woke in discourse? It's so embarrassing.

[SD_Film Artists]

Suppressing the views of those that disagree with their political alignment for one.

Right, because the Woke Left is denying people their God-given rights to call for genocide and promote conspiracies on the internet.

Or just....anyone who disagrees with them.

Not exactly. Liberal politians will often make pointless symbolic gestures while claiming to be their allies, but the reality is they're not much better than their opposition and will push many of the same policies that systematically harm minorities. Rightism always goes after some minorities.

Speaking of 'policies that systematically harm minorities', sex traffiking and FGM disproportionately effects PoC as victims....yet they're not being investigated and much less prosecuted as it'll be "racist" to go after the purps.

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

Suppressing the views of those that disagree with their political alignment for one.

Right, because the Woke Left is denying people their God-given rights to call for genocide and promote conspiracies on the internet.

they actually are lol have you seen the rhetoric on any "normal" news site january 6th and forward that isn't fox (which is just as screwed but for different reasons)

Slowly attempting to disarm the populace to make coercion by force an easier proposition.

It's at this point that I'm almost postitive you don't know the difference between liberalism and leftism. "Under no pretext..."

in fairness to Fedel most American leftists prominent in culture, media, and politics are strongly anti-gun rights- while this does not apply to, say, actual revolutionary marxists (as opposed to cultural marxists) they are clearly not the majority

[SD_Film Artists]

Can we please stop using woke in discourse? It's so embarrassing.

What's your alternative?

[Fedel]

Right, because the Woke Left is denying people their God-given rights to call for genocide and promote conspiracies on the internet.

The internet exists as an alternative avenue of communication that more and more people are turning to and due to private entities getting to set their own policies, they are shaping a large amount of the communication that occurs between human beings and having an undue amount of influence on how people think as a result ( why do you think totalitarian regimes like China are so wary of these sites? ) thereby circumventing the first amendment and its intended function. Even more problematic, those on the woke left realize how useful of a tool this is in shaping public thought and will not rescind protections from them that keep them from being treated as a publisher of content when that's exactly what they are since they dictate what is and isn't allowed to be published on their sites. Quite terrifying.

It's at this point that I'm almost postitive you don't know the difference between liberalism and leftism. "Under no pretext..."

I don't believe I compared liberalism or leftism. I mentioned "woke left for lack of a better term" ( in the context of a thread about the "Woke Left" ). If you have a better term you'd prefer me to use, feel free to offer it up and I'll take it under consideration.

Not exactly. Liberal politians will often make pointless symbolic gestures while claiming to be their allies, but the reality is they're not much better than their opposition and will push many of the same policies that systematically harm minorities. Rightism always goes after some minorities.

Of course. They don't actually care about "helping." They care about gaining power and never letting it go.

[Nilokeras]

There are plenty of ways to criticize elite retrenchment and class interests without dipping into that particular well.

Might I query as to where the well was dipped into? I think Fedel's arguments are nonsense and his rhetoric is impotent tripe, but at the same time I don't see him exactly making any indictments against Jews.

Could you expound upon your reasoning?

The 'Great Replacement' conspiracy theory generally revolves around the idea that there exists a small group of elites (namely Jews and their stooges) that are using their influence in media, politics and culture to destroy 'traditional' Western culture, values and civilization. This takes the form of policies to promote mass immigration of non-whites into Western countries, and a cultural riposte to frame opposition to those policies as 'racist', as well as other undermining policies like promoting LGBT+ rights, secularization and most recently, the promotion of 'SJW'ism and 'woke'ness as a way of dividing white people and turning them into servants of their own destruction.

Framing 'wokeism' as a project of a group of people that consist of 'a majority in education, media and entertainment' and that seek to 'infest' every area of life in order to 'shift the culture' is squarely in that wheelhouse. Whether or not Fedel is an anti-Semite is up to them, but they're clearly ingesting enough rhetoric that does use those tropes to be able to replicate it here.

[Cordel One]

Right, because the Woke Left is denying people their God-given rights to call for genocide and promote conspiracies on the internet.

they actually are lol have you seen the rhetoric on any "normal" news site january 6th and forward that isn't fox (which is just as screwed but for different reasons)

Right, because people are entitled to the ability to call for genocide and promote conspiracies.

It's at this point that I'm almost postitive you don't know the difference between liberalism and leftism. "Under no pretext..."

in fairness to Fedel most American leftists prominent in culture, media, and politics are strongly anti-gun rights- while this does not apply to, say, actual revolutionary marxists (as opposed to cultural marxists) they are clearly not the majority

Again, those are liberals.

[Fedel]

"I don't like what you're saying. You are a nazi."

'The majority of people in education, media and entertainment all adhere to such politics as well'

'They seek to infest every area of life in order to slowly shift the culture'

Literally 'Great Replacement' tropes my dude.

Never even heard of the Great Replacement. But feel free to report me if you think it's actionable. Probably has a good chance of working.

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

Can we please stop using woke in discourse? It's so embarrassing.

What's your alternative?

Call it what it is. Performative activism.

By woke Left do we mean the Left in general or the world according to Twitter?

[Democratic Exodian Territories]

they actually are lol have you seen the rhetoric on any "normal" news site january 6th and forward that isn't fox (which is just as screwed but for different reasons)

Right, because people are entitled to the ability to call for genocide and promote conspiracies.

yes they are read the first amendment

in fairness to Fedel most American leftists prominent in culture, media, and politics are strongly anti-gun rights- while this does not apply to, say, actual revolutionary marxists (as opposed to cultural marxists) they are clearly not the majority

Again, those are liberals.

well... for the sake of semantics let's put them under so-called "progressives" as neither legitimate leftists nor liberals want to disarm the people.

[Fedel]

Might I query as to where the well was dipped into? I think Fedel's arguments are nonsense and his rhetoric is impotent tripe, but at the same time I don't see him exactly making any indictments against Jews.

Could you expound upon your reasoning?

The 'Great Replacement' conspiracy theory generally revolves around the idea that there exists a small group of elites (namely Jews and their stooges) that are using their influence in media, politics and culture to destroy 'traditional' Western culture, values and civilization. This takes the form of policies to promote mass immigration of non-whites into Western countries, and a cultural riposte to frame opposition to those policies as 'racist', as well as other undermining policies like promoting LGBT+ rights, secularization and most recently, the promotion of 'SJW'ism and 'woke'ness as a way of dividing white people and turning them into servants of their own destruction.

Framing 'wokeism' as a project of a group of people that consist of 'a majority in education, media and entertainment' and that seek to 'infest' every area of life in order to 'shift the culture' is squarely in that wheelhouse. Whether or not Fedel is an anti-Semite is up to them, but they're clearly ingesting enough rhetoric that does use those tropes to be able to replicate it here.

Honestly, I think that's exactly what's happening. Whether the Jews are behind it or not, I have no idea ( don't really see a reason why they would be any more likely to be behind it than blacks, whites, Mexicans or any other racial group ). Never heard about this Great Replacement stuff before this point but it honestly just sounds like an effective strategy by a power seeking minority ( political group not necessarily racial ) attempting to undermine their opponents and I'm sure it's been used in similar forms by such groups throughout history.

It's just pitting people against each other and incentivizing the people in the groups you're using to oppress the one you're trying to take down into going along with it. If you provide a comforting narrative like "the system is rigged against you" it makes it a lot easier to hate indiscriminately.