Freedom of speech // Is the West falling behind?

[Chia Dal]

Where is your evidence that Trump was behind the storming of the U.S. Capitol? Hasn't the Democratic Party been falsely claiming for 4 years about Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election?

Edumacate yourself

Like im gonna trust Wikipedia

[Kexholm Karelia]

Edumacate yourself

Like im gonna trust Wikipedia

Wikipedia is a reliable source

[Chia Dal]

Are you sure about that?

Yes

I listen to the speech he gave before the storming and he asked his supporters to peacefully protest.

[Intaglio]

Bruh it was the right wing who attacked the US on Jan 6th. Not the dems.

Are you sure about that?

After the riot, they began invetigating people who were invovled; many of them have connections to right-wing groups or social medias espousing right-wing views. It was a far-right attack and it's odd to me that anyone denies that. As for Trump, he wasn't behind the attacks in the sense that he didn't plan them, but all of what happened on January 6th was the culmination of Trump's continued lies about the election and his refusal to concede even after it became clear he had lost.

[Kexholm Karelia]

Yes

I listen to the speech he gave before the storming and he asked his supporters to peacefully protest.

I was talking about the attack on the capitol, that was definitely Trump supporters, although a radical fringe and not at all representative of most Trump supporters

[Rusozak]

Edumacate yourself

Like im gonna trust Wikipedia

It's better than it used to be. You can also go to the sources cited for the info on the Wikipedia page.

[Albrenia]

Sure it was, Trump invited everyone over for the 6th long in advance having fuelled hysteria over a stolen election for two months.. it didn't just occur out of context.

Where is your evidence that Trump was behind the storming of the U.S. Capitol? Hasn't the Democratic Party been falsely claiming for 4 years about Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election?

Well, he was the reason they were all there, he kept telling the lie about election fraud, he talked about 'being strong to retake America' and 'fighting like hell', his cronies demanded 'trial by combat', they talked about heading down to the Capitol...

What did he expect when he sent a crowd hopped up on 'you're losing America!' and tales of fraudulent elections down to the Capitol building?

As an aside, I'm pretty sure there was Russian interference in the 2016 election, from what I remember. So it wasn't a false claim.

[Kexholm Karelia]

Sure it was, Trump invited everyone over for the 6th long in advance having fuelled hysteria over a stolen election for two months.. it didn't just occur out of context.

Where is your evidence that Trump was behind the storming of the U.S. Capitol? Hasn't the Democratic Party been falsely claiming for 4 years about Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election?

Trump was behind the storming of the capitol, that the Democrat party are full of hypocrites doesn’t take away from the fact

[Nilokeras]

So a bunch of outsourced workers in India are reviewing and deleting accounts handed to them by an algorithm en masse after a directive from Twitter HQ. Yes that seems much more coordinated and less likely to be riddled with mistakes and collateral damage.

Are you implying it isn’t better than a bot?

Anyone can reasonably assumed those tasked with reviewing accounts for deletion are trained in order to not delete every slip of the algorithm, it would be bad PR otherwise for the company

There's the rub there - they're not trained, barely supported and paid very little for a huge workload.

When Lester arrived to work on the Twitter account, he would put his phone and other valuables away in a locker. He would meet with his manager, who would give the team their statistics from the previous shift, such as the number of posts each person reviewed and their accuracy, as well as trending hashtags and breaking news events to monitor, such as the Pulse nightclub shooting in Orlando.

Then he would sit down in front of a large monitor that unspooled one post after another for hours at a time. The monitor tracked the number of “cases” in his “queue,” logging him out if he needed to take a bathroom break. Moderators for Twitter were often expected to review as many as 1,000 items a day, which includes individual tweets and replies and messages, according to current and former workers.

Lester said he had no control over what post he was going to see — whether the feed would show him an Islamic State murder or a child being forced into sex with an animal or an anti-Trump screed. He had no ability to blur or minimize the images, which are about the size of a postcard, or to toggle to a different screen for a mental breather, because the computer was not connected to the Internet.

And that's all assuming that a unique circumstance like this was handled through outsourcing at all. Mass bans and purges of hashtags could have easily been done automatically by algorithm and monitored only by software engineers. Either way the picture is the same: a colossal, porous moderation system that struggles to handle the daily tsunami of content at all, let alone a unique situation like a renewed effort to purge extremism.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Edumacate yourself

Like im gonna trust Wikipedia

Wikipedia has allways been a good source.

[Nilokeras]

It's less so the student body going nuts and more so what the professors are telling them. I went to what I was told was a relatively left-leaning university compared to other institutions and never really felt like I was out of place or that the student body was out of control

So you admit that you've never seen any of this stuff in person and that your impression of unis as infested with whatever is from the teevee.

The Ben Shapiro trigger le libs Trigglypuff shit has been old hat forever, and it's a shame that that phenomenon has made shining a light on stupid (and in some cases disturbing) things going on in academia into something groanworthy. Many things in academia that would get laughed at ten years ago are dogma today. Was white privilege a term that was bandied around constantly by establishment media outlets a decade ago?

Is this a problem with the media or universities? You keep slipping back and forth.

I take it that you didn't see what those law professors said in that NYT piece I linked and didn't see that that Washington Post op-ed praising the Sedition Act was written by a Notre Dame professor. These are the sort of people in the establishment who hold power over the discourse of other people in the policy establishment, and if they're saying these sorts of things, other people in the establishment already think these things and were merely looking for an excuse to implement these policies in full force.

I can find you profs who think the earth is flat or that Shakespeare was a Frenchman too, does that mean the academy is filled with secret Duc d'Orleans truthers?

[Arthenius]

I'm ok with shutting down a person who's tried to overthrow democracy, because the right to vote for your government is the fundamental free speech we have.

He's not even shut down, he's been removed from a social media platform.

The issue is bigger than Trump. Like I mentioned earlier, many twitter accounts associated with #Walkaway and the Pro Life March were also deleted, despite not breaking any twitter ToS rules nor inciting any sort of hate or violence. This seems like a cover for twitter to silently strike down other conservative movements on their platform as well

Progressivism as a cover for authoritarianism or totalitarianism. Unfortunately, it seems to be working so far.

[Arthenius]

Are you sure about that?

After the riot, they began invetigating people who were invovled; many of them have connections to right-wing groups or social medias espousing right-wing views. It was a far-right attack and it's odd to me that anyone denies that. As for Trump, he wasn't behind the attacks in the sense that he didn't plan them, but all of what happened on January 6th was the culmination of Trump's continued lies about the election and his refusal to concede even after it became clear he had lost.

Do you know about when Hitler and Nazis set up the Reichstag Fire in the 1930s and blamed it on Jews and other opponents of his? Remember Hitler oppressing and using Jews as a scapegoat for the oppression that he was actually doing? And most of the German people went along with it.

This is how propaganda and psychological disinformation warfare works.

[National Capitalist United States]

The issue is bigger than Trump. Like I mentioned earlier, many twitter accounts associated with #Walkaway and the Pro Life March were also deleted, despite not breaking any twitter ToS rules nor inciting any sort of hate or violence. This seems like a cover for twitter to silently strike down other conservative movements on their platform as well

Progressivism as a cover for authoritarianism or totalitarianism. Unfortunately, it seems to be working so far.

Come on, you can't be serious.

[Arthenius]

Where is your evidence that Trump was behind the storming of the U.S. Capitol? Hasn't the Democratic Party been falsely claiming for 4 years about Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election?

Well, he was the reason they were all there, he kept telling the lie about election fraud, he talked about 'being strong to retake America' and 'fighting like hell', his cronies demanded 'trial by combat', they talked about heading down to the Capitol...

What did he expect when he sent a crowd hopped up on 'you're losing America!' and tales of fraudulent elections down to the Capitol building?

As an aside, I'm pretty sure there was Russian interference in the 2016 election, from what I remember. So it wasn't a false claim.

By your logic, that means ANTIFA or BLM radical fighters are protesting and even rioting or looting, ergo they are inciting everyone else on the left to violence and retardation.

[Albrenia]

Well, he was the reason they were all there, he kept telling the lie about election fraud, he talked about 'being strong to retake America' and 'fighting like hell', his cronies demanded 'trial by combat', they talked about heading down to the Capitol...

What did he expect when he sent a crowd hopped up on 'you're losing America!' and tales of fraudulent elections down to the Capitol building?

As an aside, I'm pretty sure there was Russian interference in the 2016 election, from what I remember. So it wasn't a false claim.

By your logic, that means ANTIFA or BLM radical fighters are protesting and even rioting or looting, ergo they are inciting everyone else on the left to violence and retardation.

No, although if one of them was to talk about how a particular police station was full of murderers and everyone should gather there on a particular day, it would be a pretty similar case. Trump, to my knowledge, never took active part in any protest, so it's nothing like the situation you suggest.

Granted Trump's case had the added factor of speaking with the authority of a President, which makes people think doing such things at his encouragement is ok.

[Albrenia]

After the riot, they began invetigating people who were invovled; many of them have connections to right-wing groups or social medias espousing right-wing views. It was a far-right attack and it's odd to me that anyone denies that. As for Trump, he wasn't behind the attacks in the sense that he didn't plan them, but all of what happened on January 6th was the culmination of Trump's continued lies about the election and his refusal to concede even after it became clear he had lost.

Do you know about when Hitler and Nazis set up the Reichstag Fire in the 1930s and blamed it on Jews and other opponents of his? Remember Hitler oppressing and using Jews as a scapegoat for the oppression that he was actually doing? And most of the German people went along with it.

This is how propaganda and psychological disinformation warfare works.

So we're just going to ignore the hundreds of hours of footage of people chanting 'fight for Trump', showing faces of people with years of Trump support and other right-wing causes in their social media history, and involvement of right-wing extremist groups in some parts of the event?

This was not a false flag event. It's literally impossible that this is a con job.

[Intaglio]

After the riot, they began invetigating people who were invovled; many of them have connections to right-wing groups or social medias espousing right-wing views. It was a far-right attack and it's odd to me that anyone denies that. As for Trump, he wasn't behind the attacks in the sense that he didn't plan them, but all of what happened on January 6th was the culmination of Trump's continued lies about the election and his refusal to concede even after it became clear he had lost.

Do you know about when Hitler and Nazis set up the Reichstag Fire in the 1930s and blamed it on Jews and other opponents of his? Remember Hitler oppressing and using Jews as a scapegoat for the oppression that he was actually doing? And most of the German people went along with it.

This is how propaganda and psychological disinformation warfare works.

What propaganda? The people there were undeniably Trumpian/far-right. Not representative of the average conservative or even the average Trump supporter, of course, but still far-right wingers. And please spare me the Nazi comparsions; they're very tired.

[Arthenius]

Progressivism as a cover for authoritarianism or totalitarianism. Unfortunately, it seems to be working so far.

Come on, you can't be serious.

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

[Albrenia]

Come on, you can't be serious.

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

Oh yes, the arrest of people involved in a terrorist act is certainly similar to the genocide of a people based on a fire likely set by the Nazis themselves.

[Arthenius]

Do you know about when Hitler and Nazis set up the Reichstag Fire in the 1930s and blamed it on Jews and other opponents of his? Remember Hitler oppressing and using Jews as a scapegoat for the oppression that he was actually doing? And most of the German people went along with it.

This is how propaganda and psychological disinformation warfare works.

What propaganda? The people there were undeniably Trumpian/far-right. Not representative of the average conservative or even the average Trump supporter, of course, but still far-right wingers. And please spare me the Nazi comparsions; they're very tired.

I do believe there is something going on about it, because it's not just "far-right" groups that are potentially being cracked down on, formally or informally. Did you hear about #walkaway though? It is insidious and incremental. "Far-right" has also become a general insult that has lesser meaning now.

What comes to mind is the tale of the mob going after everyone as being a monster when they themselves are being the monster.

[Cordel One]

Come on, you can't be serious.

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

Ugh, the constant rightist victim complex. Putting kids in cages and systemically harming black people is perfectly ok, bur inciting a riot and getting banned from Twitter for it after years of promoting misinformation? Must be an ANTIFA BLM Illuminati deep state false flag. Truly an Orwellian nightmare, comparable to being Jewish in 1930s Germany.

[Omniabstracta]

Come on, you can't be serious.

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

You know what else was used as a justification for the atrocities against Jews and other enemies? Accusations of “liberal conspiracies” and “Jewish plots,” and a general blaming by the conservative factions that allied themselves with the NSDAP of progressivism as the reason for Germany’s issues. So the “progressives are the real authoritarians” spiel isn’t “too off base,” if that’s the argument you really want to make, but it’s better for us both to just not do that instead.

[Arthenius]

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

Oh yes, the arrest of people involved in a terrorist act is certainly similar to the genocide of a people based on a fire likely set by the Nazis themselves.

Not specifically the genocide part, but more about comparison with them being otherwise treated similarly to terrorists like the damaging of their businesses and other association.

[Arthenius]

The Reichstag Fire was used as a justification for the atrocity against the Jews and other enemies of the German Nazis. It's not too off base.

Ugh, the constant rightist victim complex. Putting kids in cages and systemically harming black people is perfectly ok, bur inciting a riot and getting banned from Twitter for it after years of promoting misinformation? Must be an ANTIFA BLM Illuminati deep state false flag. Truly an Orwellian nightmare, comparable to being Jewish in 1930s Germany.

The left is really the one that has the victim complex. Why? Because at least socially, you have different sects like third-feminists, those in the black and minority communities, other "social justice" causes who are complaining about a status quo that isn't really as bad as an issue in reality. There is the crazy hypocrisy and double standards too. At least the right is honest and upfront about where they stand.