How much religious freedom is needed?

[Loeje]

My main gripe with the term religious freedom is that it's often used as an excuse for bigotry.


Believe whatever you like, but don't hide behind religion to disguise your discrimination.

It shouldn't be used that way, I completely agree with that. But people also use the term discrimination for opinions they disagree with, and that's wrong too. Religious freedom doesn't excuse real discrimination, but it does allow for bad opinions.

[Punished UMN]

With the baker, I can see that as an argument, in the abortion situation and the doctor, the doctor is not discriminating against a person. Discrimination would be if he were willing to provide abortion to one patient but not to others.

Even if the abortion was medically needed, as in some cases when something goes terribly wrong during pregnancy?

The question here is whether a doctor can be forced to perform or punished for not performing an operation which he believes to be ethically questionable. Your answer to it probably boils down to whether you believe women have a right to carry out an abortion if the fetus is alive, as such regulations are matters of limiting bodily autonomy.

[Suriyanakhon]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

[Sanghyeok]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

That's fair- I've seen other posters make good arguments about how even "secular" states enforce a secular position towards religious freedom.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

To that point, Turkish law is really an an interesting case study in political science

[Sungoldy-China]

Treating religion like a disease,
as long as it does not spread to other people, then it is their own business,
but the government needs to let people understand the harm of these ‘diseases’.

[The Alma Mater]

Treating religion like a disease,
as long as it does not spread to other people, then it is their own business,
but the government needs to let people understand the harm of these ‘diseases’.

The normal comparison is with a penis.

It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.

[Czechostan]

Treating religion like a disease,
as long as it does not spread to other people, then it is their own business,
but the government needs to let people understand the harm of these ‘diseases’.

The normal comparison is with a penis.

It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.

^ Exactly. Save getting on your knees and worshipping your holy master for either the bedroom or the Catholic church nearby.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

You can’t entirely avoid it. Otherwise the legal system will be completely hopeless as people with different religions disagree on cause and effect. “Jenny uses witchhunt to murder Loretta” will be impossible to disprove if it is even allowed in the court.

[The Alma Mater]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

You can’t entirely avoid it. Otherwise the legal system will be completely hopeless as people with different religions disagree on cause and effect. “Jenny uses witchhunt to murder Loretta” will be impossible to disprove if it is even allowed in the court.

"Hermes teaches that I should drive 100mph in the suburbs"

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

You can’t entirely avoid it. Otherwise the legal system will be completely hopeless as people with different religions disagree on cause and effect. “Jenny uses witchhunt to murder Loretta” will be impossible to disprove if it is even allowed in the court.

"Hermes teaches that I should drive 100mph in the suburbs"

Yup and there is actually no solution to this problem. The main reason why the solution supposedly exists in the West is implicit atheism in public space since it determines causes and effect essentially assuming atheism and that no major group has disagreed. It is possible for different people to coexist if there is disagreement on abortion and creationism but not religious mandates that have to be satisfied by seriously breaking secular crime code (e.g. murder, rape).

[Esheaun Stroakuss]

To the extent in which one is free to believe in whatever they want so long as it has no place in government.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

Animal sacrifice is actually legal in the States at least, local ordinances notwithstanding. Iirc as long as you aren't cruel when doing it and the animal is killed fairly quickly it's good to go from a legal perspective.

[Wink Wonk We Like Stonks]

I'm of the opinion that to some extent all states take a theological position and it's impossible fully to divorce politics from religion. The state pretty clearly says that human sacrifice is murder and that animal sacrifice is animal cruelty, irregardless of what the people performing them believe. This is taking a position on religion whether one likes it or not.

Animal sacrifice is actually legal in the States at least, local ordinances notwithstanding. Iirc as long as you aren't cruel when doing it and the animal is killed fairly quickly it's good to go from a legal perspective.

do any modern-day religions practice animal sacrifice?

[Insaanistan]

Animal sacrifice is actually legal in the States at least, local ordinances notwithstanding. Iirc as long as you aren't cruel when doing it and the animal is killed fairly quickly it's good to go from a legal perspective.

do any modern-day religions practice animal sacrifice?

Islam and Judaism in technicality, though we cook and eat the animal or give it to someone less fortunate to eat after we sacrifice it.

[The Mojave Expedition]

What is the unit of measurement for religious freedom?

[Punished UMN]

To the extent in which one is free to believe in whatever they want so long as it has no place in government.

What people believe always has a place in government, even if subconsciously.

[The Alma Mater]

Animal sacrifice is actually legal in the States at least, local ordinances notwithstanding. Iirc as long as you aren't cruel when doing it and the animal is killed fairly quickly it's good to go from a legal perspective.

do any modern-day religions practice animal sacrifice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadhimai_festival

[Washington Resistance Army]

Animal sacrifice is actually legal in the States at least, local ordinances notwithstanding. Iirc as long as you aren't cruel when doing it and the animal is killed fairly quickly it's good to go from a legal perspective.

do any modern-day religions practice animal sacrifice?

In addition to the other responses there's also Santeria and various forms of paganism that engage in sacrifice.

[Sanghyeok]

What is the unit of measurement for religious freedom?

Prayers/second

[Sundiata]

What is the unit of measurement for religious freedom?

Prayers/second

And the prize goes to...

Vatican City

[Sanghyeok]

Prayers/second

And the prize goes to...

Vatican City

Maybe per capita prayers/second, but even then Mecca or Jerusalem might be first.

[The Marlborough]

Treating religion like a disease,
as long as it does not spread to other people, then it is their own business,
but the government needs to let people understand the harm of these ‘diseases’.

"Man, why do a lot of religious people distrust contemporary secular movements and hold this weird notion that today's secularism is just disguised anti-clericalism and state atheism?!"

[Insaanistan]

And the prize goes to...

Vatican City

Maybe per capita prayers/second, but even then Mecca or Jerusalem might be first.

There are more Sunni Muslims than Catholics (or any individual sect of Christianity), so Makkah wins.

[Insaanistan]

Treating religion like a disease,
as long as it does not spread to other people, then it is their own business,
but the government needs to let people understand the harm of these ‘diseases’.

...
What?