Rochester NY police pepper spray 9 year old girl

[Miternet]

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/31/nyre ... child.html

The police department in Rochester, N.Y., released body-camera footage on Sunday that showed a 9-year-old girl being handcuffed and pepper-sprayed by police officers who had responded to a family disturbance call.

During the incident, which occurred Friday afternoon, officers restrained the girl, pushing her into the snow in order to handcuff her, while she screamed repeatedly for her father, the footage showed.

At one point, an officer said, “You’re acting like a child.” She responded, “I am a child.”

When she refused to sit inside a police car, an officer pepper-sprayed her.

Rochester’s mayor, Lovely Warren, announced on Monday that the officers involved in the spraying would be suspended until the conclusion of an internal investigation, saying that state laws and union rules prevented her from taking more serious action.

So the cops were responding to a domestic disturbance (not sure why this seems like something a social worker could handle but OK) and the cops, rather than try to de-escalate the situation, instead cuff and pepper spray the NINE YEAR OLD GIRL!!! They then got pissy when this shockingly didn't calm her down. Also, take a fucking guess what color the kid was.

If anyone needs a clearer explanation as to why the police needs to be reformed, pretty sure this is it.

[Albrenia]

Gotta keep them dangerous criminals subdued.

Never know when a handcuffed child will snap and kill again.

[Kowani]

Oh, OP

add the response of the police union to the incident, please
it really speaks to the mindset engendered by policing

[The Free Joy State]

I keep hearing of these incidents of police officers behaving in a highly inappropriate way towards children who are doing nothing more threatening than acting like an upset child.

The way the police are allowed to deal with children needs a radical overhaul. Frankly, with the exception of rare incidents when children are acting in a way that poses a real physical threat to themselves or others, the Police as a whole shouldn't even be summoned to cases involving young children (I'm reminded of the -- IMO poor --teacher who escalated an incident repeatedly with an eight year old child with known SEN, and then called the police, who arrested him). Child psychology and family service units should be given better funding and called upon instead, with a focus on defusing situations and not escalating them.

And as for their representative saying they broke no policy... well, if using pepper-spray on a frightened nine-year-old child who is calling for her father breaks no policy, that is a serious problem.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

EDIT: Gave an opinion without reading the whole article. Retracting that opinion.

[Romextly]

Wasn't the girl trying to kill her mom or something like that?

[Albrenia]

Wasn't the girl trying to kill her mom or something like that?

She was handcuffed and a child, so unless she had a gun or something I don't see how pepper spraying her could be justified even if she was acting like a girl possessed.

[Romextly]

Wasn't the girl trying to kill her mom or something like that?

She was handcuffed and a child, so unless she had a gun or something I don't see how pepper spraying her could be justified even if she was acting like a girl possessed.

True

[The Free Joy State]

Oh, OP

add the response of the police union to the incident, please
it really speaks to the mindset engendered by policing

Is Protective Custody implied, do you think?

Not knowing what was going on inside the house, restraining the girl on the other side of the car would probably be enough. Ideally she'd get in the car voluntarily without handcuffs, but in a hurry and considering she has no reason to trust the police ...

From the story so far it looks totally unjustified. It might not be that bad if there was some other factor like an active shooter.

The little girl said (did not make an attempt, AFAIK) she wanted to kill herself, and her mother. She needed psychiatric help.

The police made the situation unnecessarily stressful by handcuffing her and using pepper-spray on her, while she was screaming for her father.

This is why I say they should not have been called as a first line. She needed child and adolescent mental health experts, people trained to keep the situation calm. More funding should be put into such services.

[Washington Resistance Army]

At one point, an officer said, “You’re acting like a child.” She responded, “I am a child.”

Absolutely fucking savage response. Officer BTFO.

[Risottia]

At one point, an officer said, “You’re acting like a child.” She responded, “I am a child.”

The cheek of these uppity differently-white folks is astonishing. They even DARE to try and hide themselves behind their alleged age! I am shocked,I say, shocked!
Luckily the heroic Rochester PD intervened en masse to stop that soon-to-be-criminal from threatening further the life and property of law-abiding, freedom-loving True Americans.

[Risottia]

The way the police are allowed to deal with children with anyone needs a radical overhaul.

Fixed.
Iirc, the Rochester PD is infamous for killing an unarmed person in the streets by gagging them to suffocation, am I right?
Fuck, I'd feel safer in the hands of the Reichskriminalpolizeiamt.

[Kowani]

The way the police are allowed to deal with children with anyone needs a radical overhaul.

Fixed.
Iirc, the Rochester PD is infamous for killing an unarmed person in the streets by gagging them to suffocation, am I right?

yes

[Miternet]

And right wingers laugh when we talk about sending social workers to deal with domestic disturbances. It's hard to imagine a social worker doing a worst job than these fucking cops.

[Washington Resistance Army]

And right wingers laugh when we talk about sending social workers to deal with domestic disturbances. It's hard to imagine a social worker doing a worst job than these fucking cops.

Only sending social workers is a pretty shit idea tbh. The ideal would be to send a social worker and a cop and if the worker proves unable to deescalate or if things become violent (as is often the case with domestics) then the cop steps in.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

And right wingers laugh when we talk about sending social workers to deal with domestic disturbances. It's hard to imagine a social worker doing a worst job than these fucking cops.

Only sending social workers is a pretty shit idea tbh. The ideal would be to send a social worker and a cop and if the worker proves unable to deescalate or if things become violent (as is often the case with domestics) then the cop steps in.

"As is often the case with domestics" as far as we know, and when police are there.

The one-of-each thing is fine. I'd like the cop to stay out of sight, but given their culture that would be hard. Their urge would be to protect the social worker, which they could do just by being seen nearby. Some pretty strict training would be necessary to stop this happening.

Maybe the cop could come in plainclothes, stand slightly behind, and let the real social worker do the talking ...

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

The way the police are allowed to deal with children with anyone needs a radical overhaul.

Fixed.
Iirc, the Rochester PD is infamous for killing an unarmed person in the streets by gagging them to suffocation, am I right?
Fuck, I'd feel safer in the hands of the Reichskriminalpolizeiamt.

So would I. By the time they were finished announcing "Reichskriminalpolizeiamt" I'd be jumping a fence.

[Saiwania]

Even if there was a domestic disturbance, the fault is with whoever got the police involved. Unless the kid wielded a knife or was a real threat. But I doubt this the case. Instead the parents need to control their kid. Growing up, my parents could maintain control as is proper. If your child misbehaves badly enough, you're supposed to do whatever corporal punishment is allowed.

I'm a firm believer of- spare the rod, spoil the child.

[The Free Joy State]

The way the police are allowed to deal with children with anyone needs a radical overhaul.

Fixed.
Iirc, the Rochester PD is infamous for killing an unarmed person in the streets by gagging them to suffocation, am I right?
Fuck, I'd feel safer in the hands of the Reichskriminalpolizeiamt.

True.

I was just narrowly focusing on the subject of the thread. But, really, yes, a radical overhaul of policing in general is needed.

EDIT: And, yes, the Daniel Prude (suffocated by use of a hood) case was also under the jurisdiction of Rochester police (it says so in the article linked by the OP)

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Even if there was a domestic disturbance, the fault is with whoever got the police involved. Unless the kid wielded a knife or was a real threat. But I doubt this the case. Instead the parents need to control their kid. Growing up, my parents could maintain control as is proper. If your child misbehaves badly enough, you're supposed to do whatever corporal punishment is allowed.

I'm a firm believer of- spare the rod, spoil the child.

Kid: "I'm so traumatized by something I don't want to tell you about I'm going to kill myself!"
Mom: "Shutup and go wash your hands for dinner"
Kid: "I hate you! I'm going to kill you!"
Sai: "What you need is a good thrashing. Go get the rod!"

Kid: "Fuck you both. I'll take my chances with the police"

[Glorious Hong Kong]

Downright horrifying and upsetting. There was another incident in Aurora, CO where four women and girls were forced to lie face down on the floor with guns pointed at them. The youngest was just six years old. Video footage is available. American policing is absolutely fucked up. Commonwealth countries generally do a far better job of policing their citizens. (I'm thinking about the UK, Australia, Malaysia, and Singapore, not Nigeria or India.)

Even in racist, Islamist, corrupt, Third World Malaysia where caning is the norm, the cops aren't nearly as terrifying or intimidating. Had America never declared independence and had it evolved to become a Commonwealth country like Australia, its police force would most likely have been trained along British lines and everyone would be a lot less terrified of them. Use of guns would also be severely curtailed. Australian and British police seem to act far more professional and restrained. Most British cops don't even carry guns. The emphasis is less on firepower and more on CQC. Ditto Japanese cops.

[Vassenor]

Downright horrifying and upsetting. There was another incident in Aurora, CO where four women and girls were forced to lie face down on the floor with guns pointed at them. The youngest was just six years old. Video footage is available. American policing is absolutely fucked up. Commonwealth countries generally do a far better job of policing their citizens. (I'm thinking about the UK, Australia, Malaysia, and Singapore, not Nigeria or India.)

Even in racist, Islamist, corrupt, Third World Malaysia where caning is the norm, the cops aren't nearly as terrifying or intimidating. Had America never declared independence and had it evolved to become a Commonwealth country like Australia, its police force would most likely have been trained along British lines and everyone would be a lot less terrified of them. Use of guns would also be severely curtailed. Australian and British police seem to act far more professional and restrained. Most British cops don't even carry guns. The emphasis is less on firepower and more on CQC. Ditto Japanese cops.

Reminder that the problems with British policing is where we got the term "institutional racism" from. And has caused riots on successive occasions.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

And they managed not to shoot her in the back. or choke her to death? That training is really paying off.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Downright horrifying and upsetting. There was another incident in Aurora, CO where four women and girls were forced to lie face down on the floor with guns pointed at them. The youngest was just six years old. Video footage is available. American policing is absolutely fucked up. Commonwealth countries generally do a far better job of policing their citizens. (I'm thinking about the UK, Australia, Malaysia, and Singapore, not Nigeria or India.)

Even in racist, Islamist, corrupt, Third World Malaysia where caning is the norm, the cops aren't nearly as terrifying or intimidating. Had America never declared independence and had it evolved to become a Commonwealth country like Australia, its police force would most likely have been trained along British lines and everyone would be a lot less terrified of them. Use of guns would also be severely curtailed. Australian and British police seem to act far more professional and restrained. Most British cops don't even carry guns. The emphasis is less on firepower and more on CQC. Ditto Japanese cops.

I think the population being armed and the police being armed reinforce each other. The average Australian is wary of police, because they're armed and we're not. Police shootings usually involve someone with a knife or improvised weapon, and in a lot of cases they're either crazy, or they want to be shot. Guns in the hands of outlaws are so unusual that police can afford to stay out of sight and call in Tactical Response who are better trained and equipped for a gunfight. Outlaws will usually surrender, unless police or TR treat it as a military scenario and try to break in.

Australian police do occasionally shoot people for no good reason. It used to be a lot worse, but having no lower order of police besides State, made it a lot easier to reform them state-by-state. My main objection to regular police having guns, is the sight of them so confident and overbearing, while armed, impresses on children and young people that a gun will help them deal with criminals and bullies. Of course they think that from movies anyway, but the real life example carries more weight.

It's not that different to the UK system, which is bobbies handle everything unless guns are suspected to be involved. They they call in a squad (whatever it's called). But both ways work in a country that doesn't have a high gun ownership rate. Neither would work in the US: an unarmed cop would not be safe to walk the streets in uniform. Those parts of a cop's job which don't require a gun, also don't need a uniform, size or strength, training in how to restrain people ... and particularly not an association with arresting people. They could use a lot of other training, and a skill set rather the opposite of that appropriate to dealing with suspects.

[A-Series-Of-Tubes]

Downright horrifying and upsetting. There was another incident in Aurora, CO where four women and girls were forced to lie face down on the floor with guns pointed at them. The youngest was just six years old. Video footage is available. American policing is absolutely fucked up. Commonwealth countries generally do a far better job of policing their citizens. (I'm thinking about the UK, Australia, Malaysia, and Singapore, not Nigeria or India.)

Even in racist, Islamist, corrupt, Third World Malaysia where caning is the norm, the cops aren't nearly as terrifying or intimidating. Had America never declared independence and had it evolved to become a Commonwealth country like Australia, its police force would most likely have been trained along British lines and everyone would be a lot less terrified of them. Use of guns would also be severely curtailed.

Australian and British police seem to act far more professional and restrained. Most British cops don't even carry guns. The emphasis is less on firepower and more on CQC. Ditto Japanese cops.

Reminder that the problems with British policing is where we got the term "institutional racism" from. And has caused riots on successive occasions.

Apparently LA police are quite good now. Does this show that the bigger the riot, the more effect on policing?

I hope not, because LA riots were large and particularly deadly. If that's what it takes to get police reform in every big city, I'm not sure it's worth it.