That's a lie! Y-your lying!
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by Stellar Colonies » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:37 pm
Floofybit wrote:Your desired society should be one where you are submissive and controlled
Techocracy101010 wrote:If she goes on a rampage those saggy wonders are as deadly as nunchucks
Parmistan wrote:It's not ALWAYS acceptable when we do it, but it's MORE acceptable when we do it.
Theodorable wrote:Jihad will win.
Distruzio wrote:All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.
Khardsland wrote:Terrorism in its original definition is a good thing.
San Lumen wrote:If he wins Harris should tear up his ballots on the house floor causing a constitutional crisis.
I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.
North Californian.
Stellar Colonies is a loose galactic confederacy.
The Confederacy & the WA.
Add 1200 years.
by The Lone Alliance » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:37 pm
Adamede wrote:
We live in a global society. If we have mass population die offs the various systems that keep our societies afloat will collapse as there will be nobody to create, run, or maintain them. And when one goes down the others goes down with it.
by Punished UMN » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:38 pm
Adamede wrote:Punished UMN wrote:The systems you are trying to preserve to keep everyone alive are the ones that are going to kill everyone.
Yah well you can’t get rid of the now with out killing people regardless. Collapse isn’t assured, so it’s best to try to keep people alive instead of just killing them off because you think your nostalgic system is better.
It's not feudalism's fault that enlightenment intellectuals thought that everything needed to be reducible to economic efficiency and so created a system that would breed billions of people into the world before destroying the ecosystems that keep them alive.
You’re not even fucking responding to things I actually said.
by Punished UMN » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:40 pm
by Kowani » Tue Feb 02, 2021 11:52 pm
Adamede wrote:Kowani wrote:in the sense that capitalism leads inevitably to the latter (and really, based on previous systems collapse examples, the "biker" part is somewhat optimistic), i suppose
Well smart warlords would switch over to eco friendly horses eventually once the gas and batteries are gone.
The main alter I’ve to coalition that we saw was communalism, or whatever it was that the reds used, and that wasn’t any more environmentally conscious then capitalism, but it’s still preferably to any alternative that necessitates Earth’s population dropping.
by Stellar Colonies » Wed Feb 03, 2021 12:01 am
Punished UMN wrote:Stellar Colonies wrote:yet
It will never be economical because real economics is based on production and supply of use-value. Getting to space and getting resources back in economically significant quantities will cost so much in terms of resources that the resources you get back from it will be a net-loss.
Floofybit wrote:Your desired society should be one where you are submissive and controlled
Techocracy101010 wrote:If she goes on a rampage those saggy wonders are as deadly as nunchucks
Parmistan wrote:It's not ALWAYS acceptable when we do it, but it's MORE acceptable when we do it.
Theodorable wrote:Jihad will win.
Distruzio wrote:All marriage outside the Church is gay marriage.
Khardsland wrote:Terrorism in its original definition is a good thing.
San Lumen wrote:If he wins Harris should tear up his ballots on the house floor causing a constitutional crisis.
I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.
North Californian.
Stellar Colonies is a loose galactic confederacy.
The Confederacy & the WA.
Add 1200 years.
by Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:14 am
by Kowani » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:21 am
Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 wrote:
I dunno, this enternal debate on "ideologies" is pretty stupid really, all that really matters is policy and nothing else because that's the stuff that changes the globe, not dumbshit "theories" and "ideologies"
by Sundiata » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:31 am
G.K Chesterton wrote:Property is merely the art of the democracy. It means that every man should have something that he can shape in his own image, as he is shaped in the image of heaven. But because he is not God, but only a graven image of God, his self-expression must deal with limits; properly with limits that are strict and even small.
by UniversalCommons » Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:47 am
by New Bradenia Ghost » Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:51 am
by Grinning Dragon » Wed Feb 03, 2021 5:50 am
by Joohan » Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:57 am
by Adamede » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:23 am
The Lone Alliance wrote:Adamede wrote:
We live in a global society. If we have mass population die offs the various systems that keep our societies afloat will collapse as there will be nobody to create, run, or maintain them. And when one goes down the others goes down with it.
The thing about Climate change is the die off isn't going to be a sudden giant meteor like death, it will be slow enough that society will be able to set up a triage system to mediate the losses.
The people who run those various systems that keeps society afloat? They will be the ones that will be most protected and the ones least likely to die because society will want to keep them alive as long as possible in order to keep those systems operating until the end. They will be the guys trying to keep the lights on on the titanic even while the ship is sinking, you really think that society wouldn't try to keep them alive on purpose?
No they will be the first for the food rations, the first for the water supplies, and the ones who will have armed guards up until the point the guards are so hungry that they're no longer obeying orders.
Also many systems of society are partly automated by this point, so even with a skeleton crew much of the world's infrastructure could still remain operational. And the places that stop operating can serve as a supply of spare parts for when things inevitably break down.
Also as the population drops the need for such infrastructure will decrease, we won't need all the stuff we have today because most of mankind will be too dead to use it.
It's a world built for 7 billion people, and by the time climate change hits it'll be a world for 8 billion people, when the population is 2 billion that's a lot of leftover stuff to use.
There is no reason to believe that 70% of humanity dying will instantly mean "TECHNOLOGY IS OVER!!!"
That same technology can be controlled by 30% of mankind just as effectively as 100% of mankind, especially if the people who know how the technology works are the people who are prioritized for keeping alive, which they will.
Punished UMN wrote:Adamede wrote:Yah well you can’t get rid of the now with out killing people regardless. Collapse isn’t assured, so it’s best to try to keep people alive instead of just killing them off because you think your nostalgic system is better.
You’re not even fucking responding to things I actually said.
Okay, so what system do you propose that has all of the benefits of industrialism without any of the problems that industrialism is causing?
by Adamede » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:24 am
Kowani wrote:Adamede wrote:Well smart warlords would switch over to eco friendly horses eventually once the gas and batteries are gone.
The main alter I’ve to coalition that we saw was communalism, or whatever it was that the reds used, and that wasn’t any more environmentally conscious then capitalism, but it’s still preferably to any alternative that necessitates Earth’s population dropping.
yeah
soviets did the wrong kind of leftism (though they were heavily constrained by the circumstances and technology of the time)
we shall avoid that going forward
by Shahrukh » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:33 am
by Adamede » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:45 am
Shahrukh wrote:National Capitalist United States wrote:Damn, I didn't know Sweden and Switzerland were failed countries, along with the rest of the world
Sweden? Being being a degenerate consumerist state, and implementing mass welfare with heavy regulation of markets shows the true form of where capitalism can survive. Keep coping, you oppress your workers, give private interests power in society, and oppress other peoples. Your grandkids will die as your regime collapses when the workers strike back.
by Marstella » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:56 am
Cisairse wrote:Catsfern wrote:Its time to get rid of big business not capitalism. Tell me this what's so wrong with people being able to freely exchange goods and services with each other for a fair agreed upon price? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The only reason people have a problem with capitalism is because big business ruins it. If we get rid of big business but allow for an otherwise free market Capitalism is great.
Freedom is a myth, it only exists on paper
Material conditions present coercive factors which prevent true freedom in class-based societies
by Lacral » Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:59 am
by Lacral » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:01 am
Marstella wrote:Cisairse wrote:Freedom is a myth, it only exists on paper
Material conditions present coercive factors which prevent true freedom in class-based societies
Lmao, what's your definition of true freedom? I come from Venezuela, where there are no credible elections, where you would be dissappeared if you spoke out against the government or would have a death squad (either from the government itself or not, cause they finance gangs to take control of slums and therefore the people that live in them) sent to your house to straighten you out, where you have to live in fear that your business will be seized and where the only institutions that truly work are those used to oppress the population.
If you're gonna tell me that a country like the USA doesn't have true freedom, a country where people can vote, receive welfare, have their rights protected by working institutions, have freedom of speech, have financial freedom and aren't submitted to a dictatorship that steps over them every day, I'll tell you you need to spend a little more time outside.
by Adamede » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:03 am
Lacral wrote:Marstella wrote:
Lmao, what's your definition of true freedom? I come from Venezuela, where there are no credible elections, where you would be dissappeared if you spoke out against the government or would have a death squad (either from the government itself or not, cause they finance gangs to take control of slums and therefore the people that live in them) sent to your house to straighten you out, where you have to live in fear that your business will be seized and where the only institutions that truly work are those used to oppress the population.
If you're gonna tell me that a country like the USA doesn't have true freedom, a country where people can vote, receive welfare, have their rights protected by working institutions, have freedom of speech, have financial freedom and aren't submitted to a dictatorship that steps over them every day, I'll tell you you need to spend a little more time outside.
The USA is a prime example of a failed country.
by Samicana » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:06 am
by Adamede » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:07 am
Samicana wrote:I'm personally a Libertarian Socialist who thinks that Democratic Socialism is the easiest and most plausible way to achieve Socialism within America. The biggest issue that we face now is mass misinformation propped up by decades of Cold War propaganda. People think that Socialism is inherently authoritarian, which is completely false. Socialism is merely an economic system in which the workers own the means of production; due to this authoritarian states can't be socialist because the means of production are owned by the state, and if the workers do not have a say in what the state does, they don't own the means of production.
If we can lift the veil of propaganda, people will realize that Capitalism simply doesn't serve them, and is a net negative. I'm not advocating for full scale violent revolution, but I think that we can upend the two party system (and other parts of American Electoralism) and let the people decide for themselves if they want to live in a Capitalist or Socialist country.
by Punished UMN » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:12 am
Engadine Mcdonalds 1997 wrote:Honest question to anarchists: How the fuck do you expect to spread your "ideology" of literally not having a central government, armed forces, currency, mailings, bureaucracy, etc that would be not only be useful for a sort of "global conquest" but also selling the idea to the average joe?
"Yo Bruz, let's start a revolution where there's no form of government, no currency, no proper mailing system, no armed forces to protect us and all that stuff the government deals with. Sounds cool right?"- Person 1
"What cunt? Why the fuck would I want that, all I want is a better wage, lower taxes and cheaper bills, fuck off with that dumb shit"- Person 2
That's how I would imagine a convo about recruiting people into Anarchism would be like, at least with a more authoritarian socialism type of government, you can at least argue "Hey, those cunts that spend their whole time in Wall street are nothing but a bunch of gamblers, except when they lose out, we all suffer. Sounds pretty stupid doesn't it? Also wouldn't it be great if our minimum wage was raised, corrupt politician were ejected from government, and social programs were given proper funding's to lift people out of poverty. I think it's cool."
And to get back to the whole "let's spread a revolution that has no centrally commanded army to the entire globe"... it sounds rather stupid, doesn't it? It's almost like you need some intermediate government that can crack down on reactionaries for the time being until enough of the globe has been conquered, a sort of Vanguard party to protect the revolution if you will, one that isn't afraid of pulling punches, and can properly function when enemies are surrounding your nation.
I dunno, this enternal debate on "ideologies" is pretty stupid really, all that really matters is policy and nothing else because that's the stuff that changes the globe, not dumbshit "theories" and "ideologies"
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