Is it time to dispose of capitalism?

[Cisairse]

The January 6 attack on the capital has got me thinking.

Marxists universally agree that the contradictions inherent to the capitalist mode of production will bring about its downfall.
However, this predisposed downfall has not yet been realized in any capitalist country — every Marxist regime which has been established so far has risen despite Marx's predictions, not because of them.

In the United States, the resentment towards a vague "elite" among a vaguely-defined "regular people" has risen dramatically since 2000. Occupy Wall Street, the Tea Party movement, the 2016 election of Donald Trump, and the January 6, 2021 attack on the United States Capitol can all be ascribed to the overarching resentment of working-class people towards their ruling overlords.

Does this mean that Marx's prophecy of the end of capitalism is finally near? It has been 180 years since said prophecy was first put on paper, and yet, I find the supporting evidence to be compelling. The empirical (scientific method-based) support of Marx's lemmas used to support the theory of the end of capitalism have all been proven mathematically since his death — among them, the tendency of the rate of profit to fall (TRPF) and labor theory of value (LTV) the most relevant.

Many people view socialism as a discredited anarhcrona, but, perhaps, it is not?

So NS, what are your thoughts? Is capitalism's time as the governing economic mode on Earth coming to an end? Is the rise of left-wing and right-wing extremism really an indication of Marx's correctness? If so, how does the dominance of right-wing militant movements factor into this? If not, why not?

Is it (finally) time to depose of capitalism?

[The Reformed American Republic]

I'm not a Marxist and I'm nationalistic, but I wouldn't weep for capitalism should it be disposed of.

[Western Fardelshufflestein]

[Sanghyeok]

Yes, capitalism has failed in almost every country.

[Yankeedomland]

hi negatrot

[Cisairse]

I'm not a Marxist and I'm nationalistic, but I wouldn't weep for capitalism should it be disposed of.

Comrade

[Coanin]

hi negatrot

[Stellar Colonies]

Mixing capitalism with socialist elements in the US is already a nearly 90 degree uphill battle.

Throwing out it entirely..?

Not happening, unless things radically shift into overdrive.

[Coanin]

Mixing capitalism with socialist elements in the US is already a nearly 90 degree uphill battle.

Throwing out it entirely..?

Not happening, unless things radically shift into overdrive.

capitalism with socialist elements is capitalism

[Acrovania]

I feel this thread requires a poll.

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I disagree. Unless your society is as high unity as a Jewish community (the Amish of course count, if you gather a group of people and build a collective farm, do you get kibbutzim or do you get Russian and Chinese famines? If you get the former you can do socialism) you need capitalism internally.

[Cisairse]

I disagree. Unless your society is as high unity as a Jewish community (the Amish of course count, if you gather a group of people and build a collective farm, do you get kibbutzim or do you get Russian and Chinese famines? If you get the former you can do socialism) you need capitalism internally.

Whg what

[Mingalay]

No. Despite capitalism's failings - and there are failings - it is still the best system of economics. Alternatives, such as communism, are not better alternatives and come with its own share of flaws and do not provide realistic solutions to ongoing problems. Replacing one system with flaws with another that is flawed and has no viable solutions is not an attractive prospect by any means. Rather, we should focus on our current economic system, ensuring that it works through implementation of policies that favour supply-side economics in my opinion.

[Cisairse]

I feel this thread requires a poll.

I added one

[Senkaku]

Does this mean that Marx's prophecy of the end of capitalism is finally near? Is capitalism's time as the governing economic mode on Earth coming to an end?

Yes, just not the way you think.

Do not become addicted to water, it will take hold of you and you will resent its absence.

[Crabaiaia]

Not now.

[Cordel One]

I'd say yes, but the conditions hint that we're still getting there. At this point we have entered the late stages of capitalism. The golden age is beginning to collapse as the world can't sustain it. Furthermore, this is causing the United States to decline along with the long-term consequences of our militarism as described in Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky.

[Coanin]

I'd say yes, but the conditions hint that we're still getting there. At this point we have entered the late stages of capitalism. The golden age is beginning to collapse as the world can't sustain it. Furthermore, this is causing the United States to decline along with the long-term consequences of our militarism as described in Hegemony or Survival by Noam Chomsky.

>chomsky

[Nekostan-e Gharbi]

I disagree. Unless your society is as high unity as a Jewish community (the Amish of course count, if you gather a group of people and build a collective farm, do you get kibbutzim or do you get Russian and Chinese famines? If you get the former you can do socialism) you need capitalism internally.

Whg what

Most communities are not genetically or culturally that close-knitted. If you don’t have what it takes to get people to really serve each other in kibbutzim you need a mixed economy is necessary. Social economy works well for Nordic countries and Japan. In very low social unity societies such as United States and China full capitalism is necessary since people hate each other so much that even a mixed economy doesn’t work.

Whether socialism works does depend on the morals of a society. The more selfish and less caring the people the less likely that it will work. Attempting to establish socialism on a people who do not have the morals to make it work will result in disaster.

[Kowani]

the time to get rid of it was a long time ago
it's a bit of an imperative now

[Coanin]

the time to get rid of it was a long time ago
it's a bit of an imperative now

that's not how it works, the material conditions have to be right for the revolution to happen.

[Catsfern]

Its time to get rid of big business not capitalism. Tell me this what's so wrong with people being able to freely exchange goods and services with each other for a fair agreed upon price? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The only reason people have a problem with capitalism is because big business ruins it. If we get rid of big business but allow for an otherwise free market Capitalism is great.

[Coanin]

Its time to get rid of big business not capitalism. Tell me this what's so wrong with people being able to freely exchange goods and services with each other for a fair agreed upon price? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The only reason people have a problem with capitalism is because big business ruins it. If we get rid of big business but allow for an otherwise free market Capitalism is great.

surplus value
mcm
etc

[Cisairse]

Its time to get rid of big business not capitalism. Tell me this what's so wrong with people being able to freely exchange goods and services with each other for a fair agreed upon price? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The only reason people have a problem with capitalism is because big business ruins it. If we get rid of big business but allow for an otherwise free market Capitalism is great.

Freedom is a myth, it only exists on paper

Material conditions present coercive factors which prevent true freedom in class-based societies

[Kowani]

the time to get rid of it was a long time ago
it's a bit of an imperative now

that's not how it works, the material conditions have to be right for the revolution to happen.

if i have to hear this one more time
the "material conditions" don't exist in a vacuum
we bring them about through our actions
if we just sit around waiting for them, then nothing will ever change